Letter of Authorization for Air Tour Operations

[Fidelis]

I have been tasked with the enviable position of seeking a Letter of Authorization from our local FSDO to conduct small scale sightseeing operations. Knowing that other operators have received an LOA, and believing myself to be somewhat intelligent, I called the FSDO to see if there was an application for such. I was told to write them a letter asking for the Letter of Authorization. When asked what they wanted included, they responded, "Somebody should be able to tell you." Apparently that somebody is not the call taker at FSDO. When I drove to the FAA's building to contact the FSDO in person (would you believe the parking lot, while full of cars, is completely blocked by permanent barricades) I walked in to the front desk and was told to call their extension on the telephone nearby, which I did. I am not kidding, I heard the phone ring in the room nearby. The alleged FAA inspector on the other end of the line said that I should write them a letter asking for the LOA. When asked what to include, I was told, "I'm not sure, but it will take about one to two weeks for it to be approved." This is 4 hours of my life that I will never get back.

 

In short, is there anyone that has a sample or copy of a letter asking for a Letter of Authorization; preferably one that was approved?

 

As well, I know that I must have a drug and alcohol testing program in place (based on today's experience so should the FAA). What constitutes proof of such a program?

 

Thanks for the assistance.

 

Josh

 

P.S. To any FAA types reading this. I'm just kidding and sincerely apologize.

[PhotoFlyer]

You can't get the LOA for tour operations under 91.147 any longer.

 

( An Operator must comply with the safety provisions of part 136, subpart A of this chapter, and apply for and receive a Letter of Authorization from the Flight Standards District Office nearest to its principal place of business by September 11, 2007.

 

So if you didn't get the LOA before September 11, '07 you will have to apply for a 135 certificate to be able to do tour operations.

 

Proof of the drug and alcohol testing program would be a letter from your consortium manager stating you are a consortium member, or if you didn't join a consortium, then individual documentation of pilot testing.

Edited June 25, 2008 by PhotoFlyer

[Fidelis]

You can't get the LOA for tour operations under 91.147 any longer.

 

( An Operator must comply with the safety provisions of part 136, subpart A of this chapter, and apply for and receive a Letter of Authorization from the Flight Standards District Office nearest to its principal place of business by September 11, 2007.

 

So if you didn't get the LOA before September 11, '07 you will have to apply for a 135 certificate to be able to do tour operations.

 

Proof of the drug and alcohol testing program would be a letter from your consortium manager stating you are a consortium member, or if you didn't join a consortium, then individual documentation of pilot testing.

 

That is what I thought until I saw another local operator doing more Up & Downs than would be allowed under any exception that I know of. I was told that they are operating under a Part 91 LOA, but they were not in business prior to Sept 11, 2007.

 

As well, what little information I did get out of FSDO led me to believe that they are still issuing LOA's ref the "should take one to two weeks to be approved" remark.

 

If indeed you must be Part 135, doesn't this pretty much kill many of the small guys? And why continue to advertise the Letter of Authorization requirement on the FAA website if the time has passed to get one?

 

I assumed that the September 11, 2007 remark must be in reference (or at least interpreted to mean) to the FAA remark on their website "....after September 11, 2007, your current registration of your drug and alcohol testing program will no longer be valid." That statement in itself would seem to imply that while your current program would no longer be valid, you could still comply in another way and obtain an LOA post 9/11/07. Thus my question concerning what now constitutes a drug and alcohol program.

 

I could be completely wrong so I appreciate the info. Still makes me wonder how these other guys are doing it.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Fidelis

[PhotoFlyer]

As far as I know (and the interpretation of the helena FSDO) is that the LOA can't be issued after 9/11/07. All of this came about from tour operators in Hawaii with no supervision. Poor maintenance and multiple crashes from these non-135 operators caused the changes. If you have information from the FAA website that says different please post up. I don't know where our LOA is (filed in the bosses office) but we got it before 9/11/07. All I did was write a letter to our inspector that included all the information required by 91.147, showed we complied with part 136, and included a copy of a verification letter from our drug and alcohol testing consortium manager.

 

It probably helped that we are a 135 operator. We got the LOA so that our non-135 instructors could give rides and tours without needing to be on the 135 certificate.

Edited June 25, 2008 by PhotoFlyer

[highaltrotor]

Look under part 119. If you are going to remain within 25 nm (and a few other stipulations) you can get an LOA for tours. It even refers you to another FAR (sorry, I don't have my copy on me) that will describe in detail what should be in your request letter. This includes a drug testing program in addition to a few other requirements.

 

Photoflyer, you got it backwards. AFTER 9/11/07 you must have an LOA, before that you didn't need one.

[spencer]

Sec. 91.147

 

[Passenger carrying flights for compensation or hire.]

 

 

[Each Operator conducting passenger-carrying flights for compensation or hire must meet the following requirements unless all flights are conducted under Sec. 91.146.

(a) For the purposes of this section and for drug and alcohol testing, Operator means any person conducting nonstop passenger-carrying flights in an airplane or helicopter for compensation or hire in accordance with Sec. Sec. 119.1(e)(2), 135.1(a)(5), or 121.1(d), of this chapter that begin and end at the same airport and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport.

( An Operator must comply with the safety provisions of part 136, subpart A of this chapter, and apply for and receive a Letter of Authorization from the Flight Standards District Office nearest to its principal place of business by September 11, 2007.

© Each application for a Letter of Authorization must include the following information:

(1) Name of Operator, agent, and any d/b/a (doing-business-as) under which that Operator does business;

(2) Principal business address and mailing address;

(3) Principal place of business (if different from business address);

(4) Name of person responsible for management of the business;

(5) Name of person responsible for aircraft maintenance;

(6) Type of aircraft, registration number(s), and make/model/series; and

(7) An Antidrug and Alcohol Misuse Prevention Program registration.

(d) The Operator must register and implement its drug and alcohol testing programs in accordance with part 121, appendices I and J, of this chapter.

(e) The Operator must comply with the provisions of the Letter of Authorization received.]

[PhotoFlyer]

Look under part 119. If you are going to remain within 25 nm (and a few other stipulations) you can get an LOA for tours. It even refers you to another FAR (sorry, I don't have my copy on me) that will describe in detail what should be in your request letter. This includes a drug testing program in addition to a few other requirements.

 

Photoflyer, you got it backwards. AFTER 9/11/07 you must have an LOA, before that you didn't need one.

 

Sorry, no, you need to read a little more carefully.

 

( An Operator must comply with the safety provisions of part 136, subpart A of this chapter, and apply for and receive a Letter of Authorization from the Flight Standards District Office nearest to its principal place of business by September 11, 2007.

 

The key here is "by September 11, 2007" (my emphasis) Not after 9-11-07. The regulation that 119 refers is 91.147, which is what is copied above.

Edited June 26, 2008 by PhotoFlyer

[HelliBoy]

ok ok ok lets calm down. Ive gone though this process in the last three months and its as painless as peeing in a cup and composing a couple emails.

 

Step 1. Sign up with a drug testing consortium, this is where any cost at all is incurred. I use Professional Air Charter Service ( www.pacsdrug.com) it costs $200 a year and tests are about $25. I had my letter from them saying I was in compliance with the FAA program standards in 15 min.

Step 2. Pick a person at your local FSDO, I reccomend the Principal Operations Inspector, and send them an email with the letter from the consortium attached and with all the info spencer posted. Wait a month, at least.

Step 3. When you give rides comply with part 136, which is also easy. Dont fly over water unless you have lifejackets for everybody and can autorotate to the shore, give a briefing, and have a Performance Plan for each flight. For my performance plan I have a sheet where I can do all of my performance calculations for DA, a sliding scale weight and balance and HIGE/HOGE for how much fuel I have on board so the big boys can still go when I have less fuel, and a passenger manifest that the pilot checks off for each ride to verify things are kosher with the performance plan.

 

Words of advice- have at least two people helping you-one to take cash and one to help load/unload, and make sure you buy the beer after your done so they will come back. And the hardest part- make the fat ones get on the scale if they want to ride.

 

Photoflyer et all- you dont need to be 135 to do tours, that would be rediculous. The reason for the rule change is as you said but it only sought to regulate tours further, not limit them to 135 operators. If not they would have just done away with the commercial air tour exception made in part 119. It says by 9/11 in the FAR for people already doing it without an LOA. The FAA does issue LOAs still because I have one dated 5/24/08. If you still disagree call my FSDO- Albany, NY and you can try to talk them out of it.

[PhotoFlyer]

I have no interest in calling your FSDO, perhaps you should call mine, Helena MT. While your at it call Casper WY FSDO.

[HelliBoy]

Please explain how sigtseeing within 25nm for hire is still allowed under part 119. It sounds like you're saying it isnt, but there it is. Maybe you should call your FSDO since all signs point to you being mistaken about this.

[PhotoFlyer]

Very well, here you go.

 

119.1(e)(2) Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted after September 11, 2007, in an airplane or helicopter having a standard airworthiness certificate and passenger-seat configuration of 30 seats or fewer and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less that begin and end at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport, in compliance with the Letter of Authorization issued under §91.147 of this chapter. For nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in accordance with part 136, subpart B of this chapter, National Parks Air Tour Management, the requirements of part 119 of this chapter apply unless excepted in §136.37(g)(2). For Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in the vicinity of the Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, the requirements of SFAR 50–2, part 93, subpart U, and part 119 of this chapter, as applicable, apply.

 

So 119 says you can do the tours within 25 miles in certain aircraft if you have a LOA issued under 91.147. Lets look at 91.147

 

§ 91.147 Passenger carrying flights for compensation or hire.

 

Each Operator conducting passenger-carrying flights for compensation or hire must meet the following requirements unless all flights are conducted under §91.146.

 

(a) For the purposes of this section and for drug and alcohol testing, Operator means any person conducting nonstop passenger-carrying flights in an airplane or helicopter for compensation or hire in accordance with §§119.1(e)(2), 135.1(a)(5), or 121.1(d), of this chapter that begin and end at the same airport and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport.

 

( An Operator must comply with the safety provisions of part 136, subpart A of this chapter, and apply for and receive a Letter of Authorization from the Flight Standards District Office nearest to its principal place of business by September 11, 2007.

 

© Each application for a Letter of Authorization must include the following information:

 

(1) Name of Operator, agent, and any d/b/a (doing-business-as) under which that Operator does business;

 

(2) Principal business address and mailing address;

 

(3) Principal place of business (if different from business address);

 

(4) Name of person responsible for management of the business;

 

(5) Name of person responsible for aircraft maintenance;

 

(6) Type of aircraft, registration number(s), and make/model/series; and

 

(7) An Antidrug and Alcohol Misuse Prevention Program registration.

 

(d) The Operator must register and implement its drug and alcohol testing programs in accordance with part 121, appendices I and J, of this chapter.

 

(e) The Operator must comply with the provisions of the Letter of Authorization received.

 

[Doc. No. FAA–1998–4521, 72 FR 6911, Feb. 13, 2007]

 

Lets break this down. This rule applies to anybody (an operator) giving tours unless those tours are under 91.146, which is tours for a charity. So far this applies to us. Then it says that an operator is anybody who gives non-stop tours within 25 miles, that start and stop at the same airport. Then it says (and this is the important part) that an operator must apply for and receive a LOA by September 11, 2007.

 

Now we need a definition of the word by, because this is where the contention is.

 

Main Entry:

1by

Pronunciation: \ˈbī, before consonants also bə\

Function: preposition

Etymology: Middle English, preposition & adverb, from Old English, preposition, be, bī; akin to Old High German bī by, near, Latin ambi- on both sides, around, Greek amphi

Date: before 12th century

1: in proximity to : near

2 a: through or through the medium of : via b: in the direction of : toward c: into the vicinity of and beyond : past

3 a: during the course of b: not later than

4 a: through the agency or instrumentality of b: born or begot of c: sired or borne by

5: with the witness or sanction of

6 a: in conformity with b: according to

7 a: on behalf of b: with respect to

8 a: in or to the amount or extent of bchiefly Scottish : in comparison with : beside

9—used as a function word to indicate successive units or increments

10—used as a function word in multiplication, in division, and in measurements

11: in the opinion of : from the point of view of

— by the by or by the bye : incidentally 2

 

3b is the definition that applies to this usage of by: "not later than." So "by September 11, 2007" MEANS not later than September 11, 2007. So according to 91.147( an operator had to comply with part 136, apply for and receive a LOA no later than September 11, 2007 So if you DIDN'T get it by 9-11, then you CAN'T get one, and if you CAN'T get one then you CANNOT comply with 119.1(e)(2). If you cannot comply with 119.1(e)(2) then you would HAVE to have a 135 certificate to perform tours.

 

The rest of .147 is a list of information that needs to be included in the application.

 

Unless you have some new and unknown definition for "by 9-11-07" then the language of the rule is quite plain. If your FSDO issued you a LOA they have misinterpreted this rule, as have you. Anything else?

 

Edit: Oh yes, nowhere does it say "this rule only applies to operators already giving tours under part 91, and not to operators who will want to give tours some time in the future after the deadline for receiving an LOA has passed."

Edited June 26, 2008 by PhotoFlyer

[HelliBoy]

Well I've got my FSDO and you've got yours. I've also got a piece of paper that says I can give rides so I'm going to give rides. We'll see if Fidelis gets his, my money says he will. I still think your interpretation of 'by' is incorrect and requiring a 135 cert for rides is not the intention of the rule. The sept 11 deadline uses the word 'by' because there is no such thing as an air tour 'operator' before that date. After it, if you want to give rides, you need to be an 'operator' and the only way to become one is to get an LOA, regardless if you're 119, 135, or 121. If you're already giving rides you need to have that letter BY 9/11/07. Are you interpreting the inclusion of the rides exemption in 119 as part of a grandfather clause that says 'no new non 135 rides' after 9/11/07????? Again, rediculous. Anything else??

[PhotoFlyer]

That may well have been the intention of the rule, but it isn't the language of the rule. Not to mention that part 136 applies to "...each person operating or intending to operate a commercial air tour in an airplane or helicopter..." So if you intend to operate, then you are an operator. *Not my opinion, just a possible interpretation*

 

The problem is the language isn't clear, and allows too much freedom for interpretation. It is well know that each FSDO (and the FAA in general) can interpret the FARs in any way they see fit. If they want to interpret them to allow you to operate it's possible, and if they want to interpret them to force you to obtain a 135 certificate they can. In fact, after saying that, the language may be deliberately obscure just for that reason. What it comes down to is write a letter and see what happens. The worst that can happen is they deny a LOA and you can't do the rides.

 

Another angle, brought forth by your post, is if an operator didn't exist before 9-11, and an operator must apply for the LOA, then you must be an operator to apply for the LOA. If you can't be an operator without the LOA, and you can't apply unless your an operator, then nobody can apply. See the problem? Now this is an incredibly obtuse (and incorrect since the rule went into effect on 2-13-07) interpretation, but it shows how grey this rule really is.

Edited June 26, 2008 by PhotoFlyer

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Sometimes the FAR's are just stupid.

 

The intent of both rules you list is this. They(FAA) wanted the current tour operators to have a LOA in place by 9/11/07 until then those operators were able to conduct tours. If an operator didn't get the LOA by said date they would have to stop operations until one was in place. Then what they say is that after said date, any operator who wishes to start conducting tours must get an LOA before they can start a tour operation.

 

The wording of the FAR's there is not right but the intent of the regulation is, if you follow me.

 

Advice? Send a letter to the FAA for an offical clearification on this regulation and present that to your local FSDO since they don't seem to know what they are doing.

[Fidelis]

Thank you everyone for the information. Now I know why I was confused to begin with. I have taken into account the information that I received here, got my plan together for the drug testing, and the letter is going out to my local FSDO in the next two days. Based on their timeline, it may be a couple of weeks before I get my approval/denial, but I will post it on the forum.

 

Thanks everyone.

[zenmaster]

Thank you everyone for the information. Now I know why I was confused to begin with. I have taken into account the information that I received here, got my plan together for the drug testing, and the letter is going out to my local FSDO in the next two days. Based on their timeline, it may be a couple of weeks before I get my approval/denial, but I will post it on the forum.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

Hey Mr. Fidelis, If you want I will give a contact I have in FSDO a call. He should be able to answer the question or at least point us in the right direction. I need to follow up on some stuff with the guy anyway. I told our mutual friend about the contact but I'm not sure the info was passed. Anyway give me a call tomorrow and tell me what you think.

 

Your favorite tower operator

 

Not sure I am doing this right, if it gets posted three times....my sincere apologies.

[bossman]

JD is exactly right. Anyone can still get the LOA. The date was for the operators that were currently doing rides. After the date you had to have the LOA in place. By the way, you must list the tail numbers of the aircraft being used. The FAA has the option to come out and check the records on the aircraft. Ours came down and did a very extensive check of the aircraft and the books.

[TugBoat]

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2011/Duncan.pdf

 

they issued this memorandum 3 years after this thread started, but it should put an end to it

[Trans Lift]

Yeah anyone can get the LOA. I was working with a company last year that got one. Wasn't big deal!

[kodoz]

Yup, you'll just want to keep on top of the records for the drug testing program.

[rjl2001]

Just curious, dose the LOA or drug program info have to be visibly posted at the location?

[iChris]

On 6/22/2014 at 10:20 AM, rjl2001 said:

Just curious, dose the LOA or drug program info have to be visibly posted at the location?

 

If it’s not specified in the provisions of your Letter of Authorization or the following regulations, the answer is NO. Check your LOA to see if it needs to be posted for public display.

This type of LOA is issued under §119.1(e)(2) (§91.147) Applicable to nonstop commercial air tour operations, as described in this section and are conducted in compliance with the LOA issued
under § 91.147

§91.147 Passenger carrying flights for compensation or hire.

Part 136

§91.147[e] The Operator must comply with the provisions of the Letter of Authorization received.

 

FAA LOA Ref:  8900.1, Vol 11, Ch 9, Sec 1, Par 11-400 to 11-405 

https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExternalWindow/DRSDOCID129745282720230531141623.0001

https://drs.faa.gov/browse/ORDER_8900.1/doctypeDetails

§ 91.147 Passenger carrying flights for compensation or hire.

Two pertinent FAA letters of interpretation on this issue

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/faa_migrate/interps/2015/Ragland-Double_Eagle_Aviation_2015_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/faa_migrate/interps/2011/Duncan-AFS-200_2011_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

Edited June 20, 2023 by iChris
Update links

[avbug]

No FSDO has authority to interpret the regulation. That is reserved for the Administrator, who delegates it to the Chief and Regional Legal Counsels.

[Harry Arthur]

Does anyone still need information on the 91.147 LOA and associated rules? Just noticed this post while doing some research and it seems there is a fair amount of incorrect information here.

If so, please send me an email and I'll point you in the right direction.