eagle5 Posted December 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Lying another 20 hours of 44 time to get an interview isn't really faking experience, its more like cutting in line while no ones looking, plus there's still no guarantee you'll get the job anyway. Kinda why I think buying your way in is worse. If you're stupid enough to lie beyond your skill level you deserve to get caught. Little piggies get to go back to the troth, hoggs get staughtered! I wonder; how many have given themselves an extra .2 to account for start up and shutdown while flying with a collective hobbs just because, "my CFI told me to"? Edited December 5, 2014 by eagle5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avbug Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 No, lying about 20 hours of R44 time is attempting to fake experience, and it's falsification of a logbook, AND it's a regulatory violation and criminal act, punishable by revocation of airman certificates, ratings, and authorizations. See 14 CFR 61.59(2)( b ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted December 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Sure it is. That's why some pilots pay to sit on their ass straight and level to build those 20 hours of "experience". And why that guy with 100 hours in the 44 is so much more qualified then the guy with 80. If you pay to ferry someone's 44 you may as well just save your money and pencil whip the time in, 'cause that "experience" ain't worth sh*t! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avbug Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Flight time in general is meaningless, but falsification of the logbook is a violation of federal regulation and grounds for revocation of your airman certificates. Easy come, easy go, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Good lord…..The difference between 80 and 100 hours is meaningless. Therefore, the risk getting caught falsifying a logbook entry isn’t worth the risk. Why? It’s a risk that could end a career AND, something a true pro wouldn’t even consider. So who would consider it? Someone who is desperate and, more-than-likely, never going to make it in this business. That is, most pros have sacrificed a lot and paid their dues over-and-over again which make them (us) intolerant for those who lie, cheat and steal to get into this business…. There are far too many honest, respectful pilots out in the world who deserve to be in this business. Then again, there are folks who will never measure up and having to lying about it, either way, is proof of that fact…… Edited December 5, 2014 by Spike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsta1ker Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 20 hours is 20 hours. For those of you that think 20 hours is "nothing", I suggest you go back and look at all that happened in your first 20 hours. Every 20 hours that I fly I get better at my job. 20 hours is nothing to scoff at. How did that one guy with 10,000 hours get to that point? 20 hours at a time. You know that spot at the bottom of the page that you sign? Well if you falsified your logbook, that signature no longer means jack, or sh!t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Sure it is. That's why some pilots pay to sit on their ass straight and level to build those 20 hours of "experience". And why that guy with 100 hours in the 44 is so much more qualified then the guy with 80. If you pay to ferry someone's 44 you may as well just save your money and pencil whip the time in, 'cause that "experience" ain't worth sh*t! Really?????? ['cause that "experience" ain't worth sh*t!] 20 hours of x-country time for approx. 1400 to 1600 sms. in unfamiliar airspace and environments provides nothing? Own your training and learn everything you can from this valuable experience while you "sit on your ass" in a flying position! If you approach it with that attitude you should not be the one in the aircraft. Stay home. And someone with this experience is not more knowledgable than someone that did not fly these 20 hours or did 20 hours in a traffic patten or logged 50 nm x-countries? Anyone that would like an outline on preparation for extended cross country flying, email me at mikefranz@embarqmail.com and I will send you a word document to use to maximize this experience! It comes from my C&E course and details moving helicopters 2200 nm. in 3 to 4 days. The owner of this web site flew one of these with me years ago, paid me an instructor's fee while the helo time (BH206L-III) was free and I picked up hotels and meals en route. Miami to Boise, Id. ['cause that "experience" ain't worth sh*t!] Also, we accomplished a model and turbine transition in the 25 hours flown. ['cause that "experience" ain't worth sh*t!] Having said the above, I did not mention the paying for ferry or any other considerations and will not argue points pro or con thereof. Own your flight training a get the most from experiences offered if you chose to fly a ferry flight. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted December 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) I guess you've never had an interviewer ask you about that pay to work experience you did, then make a comment about how its not "real" commercial experience? I've done the extended xc...ooh I can read a chart and talk on the radio...big whoop! I too accomplished a turbine transition on my own dime...worth even less sh*t!!! If you're looking for personal experience to make you feel good about yourself as a pilot, pay for whatever you want. If you're trying to polish your resume to help you get a job, paying for it, cheapens the "experience" making it worthless to prospective employers. I haven't met one yet who looks favorably at pay to work "experience"! DON'T PAY FOR THIS! Edited December 6, 2014 by eagle5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I guess you've never had an interviewer ask you about that pay to work experience you did, then make a comment about how its not "real" commercial experience? I've done the extended xc...ooh I can read a chart and talk on the radio...big whoop! I too accomplished a turbine transition on my own dime...worth even less sh*t!!! If you're looking for personal experience to make you feel good about yourself as a pilot, pay for whatever you want. If you're trying to polish your resume to help you get a job, paying for it, cheapens the "experience" making it worthless to prospective employers. I haven't met one yet who looks favorably at pay to work "experience"! DON'T PAY FOR THIS!What and who are you addressing now? I did not say anything about commercial experience or paying for a turbine transition! I pointed out the value of a learning experience that is available for those that do extended x-country flights and do not as you suggested just sit on their ass in a helicopter for 20 hours. I would give you a job interview by discussing your resume and what you could bring to my operation and then a flight with you and see what you bring to the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted December 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) This whole thread is about time building for a job. I just assumed your post was too. My statement of the experience not being with sh*t, which seemed to upset you so much, was in that context. Edited December 6, 2014 by eagle5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) This whole thread is about time building for a job. I just assumed your post was too. My statement of the experience not being with sh*t, which seemed to upset you so much, was in that context.Eagle5, I am not upset but did not see the thread being about a job when you post about the difference in an 80-100 hour pilot and I did not state that this was commercial experience. My goal was to point out that any experience can be very valuable if approached properly and not just the sitting on your ass mentality. You have never read a post by me that recommends paying for a job but partaking in an extended x-country can be a valuable experience. I also did not say to pay for a turbine transition but I always accomplished this during 20-25 hour turbine repositioning flights for whatever pilot was with me. These flights were not a waste of time for more than 55 pilots, some that are now retired from flying and others flying for Papillon or ERA, etc. Edited December 7, 2014 by Mikemv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted December 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsta1ker Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 This whole thread is about time building for a job. I just assumed your post was too. My statement of the experience not being with sh*t, which seemed to upset you so much, was in that context.Back pedaling are we? No matter what context you put those statements in, they demonstrate a poor attitude towards flying, which may explain why you can't get a job, which would also explain why you are so fixated on the subject. Now, that ^ may not be completely or even partially true, but then that just makes you a huge troll. So which is it? Are you merely trolling, or are you a burnt out wannabe pilot who is bitter about not finding work because you can't hack it and are trying to justify buying or pencil-whipping your way in? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I'll take trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpenter Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) eagle5- Apparently you have never met Mikemv in person. He is one of the most distinguished individuals that I have ever met in this industry and whom I have had the pleasure of sitting across the table from. To all others: Having said that, I have in the past during the early years of my career bought/paid for multi state cross-country ferry time. I wanted to log R44 in my logbook that I otherwise would not have received. The experience to me was incredible in a variety of ways. Regardless of what others think (which I don't) about paying for flight time, it just so happened that my first commercial job as a helicopter pilot became available to me as a result of having flown those hours. I still talk about those flights and to me, they were way more gratifying and less expensive than flying in circles at the local airport attending a flight school. As to the original post question. I find both answers to be repulsive. Happy Holidays to all! Edited December 18, 2014 by Carpenter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I don't know why people keep voting on a year old thread, I mean after a few weeks who really gives a crap? Anyway, seeing this reminded me of a time building gig I did years ago. On one particular flight not long after takeoff we had a mechanical issue come up and had to land. The flight was only about 10 minutes and when the owner asked me if I was going to log it I said, why bother? So he said to me, good I won't charge you then. Funny correlation between logging and paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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