CFI's

[rotor91]

I need to talk to a CFI, question for them.....no sense clogging the forum!

 

You can PM me, or email me at rotor91@yahoo.com

 

Thanks in advance!

Rob

R91

[PhotoFlyer]

Please clog the forum. Perhaps all can benefit.

[captkirkyota]

YES YES! Clog away, ditto to what he said.

[Jacknife]

Is that similar to clogging the toilet? If so please refrain.

 

JK

[rotormandan]

I need to talk to a CFI, question for them.....no sense clogging the forum!

 

You can PM me, or email me at rotor91@yahoo.com

 

Thanks in advance!

Rob

R91

 

 

Nothing wrong with "clogging the forum." We have lots of room on here.

[heligirl03]

Jeez Rob, just post it alright already, you're keeping everyone in suspense!!

[rotor91]

Quit busting my chops EM!

 

I sent several of the CFI's that PM'd me this.......I wanted to see what they all had to say.....

 

I'm a CPL, 41, want to get my CFI and I have about 270 hours. Los Angeles Helicopters has a CFI program, but it's $17K YIKES! It involves about 30 hours dual, 100 hours ground. They have about 8 CFI's in the program right now. I could do the Sallie Mae thing, but I really cannot afford the payments as of yet.

 

Question: What's the best way to start on the CFI, because I lack funds for the dual portion of the show? I'm working on my CFI book right now, and still have to home study for both written exams. Should I talk to my ex-CFI and pay him on the side to help me with my CFI(questions for the test, FOI"s, etc...for NOW)? Then maybe just do the flying portion with him? I need a sign off so I can take my check ride as well, which I think I he would do.

 

Any advice would be helpful!

 

Rob

R91

[Chopperjess]

Rob!

 

17k seems like a bit too much for a CFI program. I sent you a PM!

Edited September 9, 2008 by Chopperjess

[rick1128]

17K is defiantly excessive. I used the ASA CD's for my CFI writtens. It is the only way to go. Under Part 61 there is really no hourly training requirement for the CFI. But unless you just finished your Commercial and are sharp plan on at least 10 hours. Get the writtens out of the way then work on the practical. The flight portion of the checkride is basicly a commercial flight check in the other seat. But you will have to talk a lot more. It is better to talk too much here than not enough. One of the things that worked for me was to write a short paper on each maneuver in the CFI PTS. For the ground portion of the checkride, plan on discussing everything in the PTS. I prepared for this by taking that section of the PTS and making an Instructor Guide from this, expanding each part by adding details and pictures.

[BOATFIXERGUY]

I agree, $17k is excessive for someone with 270 hours. All you need is 3 hours before the ride, sign-off for checkride, 1.5 or so for the ride, and written(s). If you're rusty, it shouldn't take more than 10 hours total as Rick said.

 

Get the written(s) out of the way...should take a week of studying with the King or ASA courses.

 

Start saving to have the lump sum ready for the checkride week. Do all of your flying that week. Between now and then, just study for the oral and written tests. Then when you have the cash ready, you will be ready. Will save you cash in the long run.

 

Good luck!

[delorean]

What a freakin' rip off!!!!! I would set aside $6-$7K, maybe $10K at MOST.

 

A CFI ride is nothing more than a commercial checkride from the left side. The only thing extra is a touch down auto. All the PTS tolerances are the SAME.

 

Get the King Schools course and watch it a few times. The written test is almost the same as a commercial was. The FOI test is easy too. While you're at it, take the Advance Ground Instructor test since it's out of the same bank of questions as the CFI. Write a few sample lesson plans ahead of time, per the FOI book layouts. Get started on this NOW, finish the tests, then go for the flight training.

 

To be safe, figure 20 hrs of flight time. If you're doing this in a H269 or R44, it will be less for sure. You can easily have it done in a week.

[clay]

17K is defiantly excessive. I used the ASA CD's for my CFI writtens. It is the only way to go. Under Part 61 there is really no hourly training requirement for the CFI. But unless you just finished your Commercial and are sharp plan on at least 10 hours. Get the writtens out of the way then work on the practical. The flight portion of the checkride is basicly a commercial flight check in the other seat. But you will have to talk a lot more. It is better to talk too much here than not enough. One of the things that worked for me was to write a short paper on each maneuver in the CFI PTS. For the ground portion of the checkride, plan on discussing everything in the PTS. I prepared for this by taking that section of the PTS and making an Instructor Guide from this, expanding each part by adding details and pictures.

 

 

Agree with that post! especially about taking each section of the PTS, making a short paper on the manuever with pics, etc.... i dont know that i would say talking to much here is ok, If you talk TOO much, you will overload a student with a flood of information, then they really are lost. be able to explain a manuever while demonstrating, and end it at that.. know how to pick up on mistakes, when to step in and take control. to an extent you have to be able to let a student get a little out of the envelope so they can learn to correct mistakes. if you correct everything as soon as YOU see an error, they learn nada. you have to remember that you will feel things out of whack ALOT faster than a new student. you have to bring them up to speed where they feel the error and correct it as you would

[jehh]

What a freakin' rip off!!!!! I would set aside $6-$7K, maybe $10K at MOST.

 

Yes, $17K is expensive...

 

A CFI ride is nothing more than a commercial checkride from the left side. The only thing extra is a touch down auto. All the PTS tolerances are the SAME.

 

I disagree with this... A CFI ride is about teaching, not flying. The standards are not different for the flying part, but you also have to teach. Some people are better at this than others.

 

Get the King Schools course and watch it a few times. The written test is almost the same as a commercial was. The FOI test is easy too.

 

The written tests have nothing to do with becoming a teacher.

 

To be safe, figure 20 hrs of flight time.

 

If he just passed his commercial, it shouldn't take 20 hours of flight time. Maybe 10 or 15. What it does take a lot of is ground.

 

You can easily have it done in a week.

 

A CFI, done properly, takes a month, assuming no prior teaching experience.

[flylow]

Rob,

 

I did all my studying for the written (knowledge) tests on my own, using Dauntless Software (http://www.dauntless-soft.com/) and other study material. After I had the tests out of the way, I worked with a local CFI to get me ready for the checkride. I don't think I spent more than $3-4,000. I was on a limited budget as well and about the same age as you at the time. I did a LOT of studying and practicing on my own in preparation though.

[delorean]

Yes, $17K is expensive...

 

I disagree with this... A CFI ride is about teaching, not flying. The standards are not different for the flying part, but you also have to teach. Some people are better at this than others.

 

The written tests have nothing to do with becoming a teacher.

 

If he just passed his commercial, it shouldn't take 20 hours of flight time. Maybe 10 or 15. What it does take a lot of is ground.

 

A CFI, done properly, takes a month, assuming no prior teaching experience.

 

Not sure why you decided to pick my post apart line-by line.........Anything else you want to call me out on??

 

$17K is "expensive" and it's a rip off. If you say he only needs 10-15 of flight, even at $300/hr, that's under $5000. What is the additional $12,000 going for? Ground? At $30/hr that's 400 hrs of ground school.....FIFTY 8-hr days of ground school. Sounds like the load of BS SilverState sold for $70,000 upfront.

 

I don't know about your examiners, but the ones I've dealt with stick to the PTS. They want to see lesson plans and teaching ability during the oral, but the flight portion is flight. They expect you to be able to talk and fly at the same time, that's it. They do not pretend to be a student and purposely screw up take-offs, landings, approaches, etc--as per FAA policy, they don't touch the controls unless the outcome is questionable. It is truely a commercial checkride from the left seat + a touchdown auto. The oral is 95% out of the FOI for us.

 

Who said anything about the written tests having anything to do with teaching? They are just like every other FAA test. I like the King Course because you can see how they teach students......how they convey the material. I think the Kings prep you for the oral just as much as the written.

 

Like I said "20 hrs AT MOST". I've had CFI students come from other schools that wouldn't have passed a commercial checkride in our area. I've also had guys who took 20 hrs to get touchdown autos mastered in a R22 at max gross in the 95 degree STL summers. Usually it was 10-15 hrs with the checkride and, as stated, the guys who did it in the H269s and R44 did it in less. But you don't want anyone to set aside money for 10 or 15 hrs, then not be able to afford 1-2 more hrs and the checkride. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

 

And.....plan for a week to finish the FLIGHT TRAINING. If the writtens are done, you're prepped on all the bookwork, you should be able to do all the flight training and check in a week. It should take a month or two OVERALL, but I don't think a CFI prospect should require any "ground instruction". By then, you should know the material, you just need to learn how to articulate it. You should attempt to teach a new student something and then get critiqued on it from your instructor and the student. Besides all the ends and outs of Pt. 61, there isn't any additional "ground school" that you should require for the CFI--you should know it all by now.

[jehh]

Not sure why you decided to pick my post apart line-by line.........Anything else you want to call me out on??

 

I do that to many posts here, as always they are my opinions, nothing more. Take them, leave them, this forum is about the exchange of ideas and thoughts, those are mine. I take no offence if you disagree with me.

 

$17K is "expensive" and it's a rip off.

 

For 30 hours of flight time and 100 hours of ground, that should cost $14K at most, assuming $300/hr aircraft and $50/hr ground, but you don't know what all is included in there.

 

Generally a CFI with us will cost about $6K, the CFII another $6K if done in the R-44, start to finish for someone who recently passed their commercial.

 

At $30/hr that's 400 hrs of ground school.....

 

Where do you get ground for $30/hr these days?

 

I don't know about your examiners, but the ones I've dealt with stick to the PTS. They want to see lesson plans and teaching ability during the oral, but the flight portion is flight. They expect you to be able to talk and fly at the same time, that's it.

 

Oh, you're quite correct, it isn't that hard to pass a CFI checkride. I've interviewed enough new CFIs to know that half of the new CFI certificates aren't worth the paper they are printed on. I continue to be amazed at the lack of knowledge in some new CFIs.

 

Now with that being said, some CFIs really do know their stuff so that door swings both ways. The key is to pick out the diamond in the rough.

 

I've had CFI students come from other schools that wouldn't have passed a commercial checkride in our area.

 

You must be kidding, I've had CFIs come for interviews that I wouldn't have sent for a private checkride. I now pay attention to what school the CFI trained at, many disqualify the CFI right away. My goal is to produce CFIs that other schools are happy to hire because they are getting quality. Long term, that is good for the CFIs, good for the industry, and good for me.

 

I've also had guys who took 20 hrs to get touchdown autos mastered in a R22 at max gross in the 95 degree STL summers.

 

Another good reason to not use the R-22 for full downs, the 300 is much better for those.

 

But your point is well taken, some people just can't fly and the only reason they get through the program is their checkbook is deep enough. Many of the students I've trained over the years wouldn't last a week in the Army's flight program.

 

And.....plan for a week to finish the FLIGHT TRAINING. If the writtens are done, you're prepped on all the bookwork, you should be able to do all the flight training and check in a week.

 

I'd agree with that... I'd personally spread the flying over two weeks however, given the option. Gives your brain time to absorb it, but we've done it in a week.

 

It should take a month or two OVERALL, but I don't think a CFI prospect should require any "ground instruction".

 

Why not? It takes instruction to learn how to teach, that is generally not something you can learn by reading the book.

 

Besides all the ends and outs of Pt. 61, there isn't any additional "ground school" that you should require for the CFI--you should know it all by now.

 

Oh, I don't know about you, but I still don't "know it all by now". I find I continue to learn things all the time.

 

Fly Safe!

[delorean]

I do that to many posts here, as always they are my opinions, nothing more. Take them, leave them, this forum is about the exchange of ideas and thoughts, those are mine. I take no offence if you disagree with me.

 

It's very confrontational......Rather than just answering the original poster's question, you pick apart a random respondant's post, stating why you agree or disagree with each point he/she makes. Just make your point(s) and be done with it. If they conflict with another post, so be it, but now the other guy will look the the aggressor if he fires back.

[PhilJ]

It's getting off topic a bit I personally find nothing wrong with the picking apart of posts, it makes it easy to follow where people agree or disagree with others opinions.

 

 

Jehh would you share with us which schools you will not hire CFI candidates from, might be useful in choosing a school.

[atom]

It's very confrontational......Rather than just answering the original poster's question, you pick apart a random respondant's post, stating why you agree or disagree with each point he/she makes. Just make your point(s) and be done with it. If they conflict with another post, so be it, but now the other guy will look the the aggressor if he fires back.

 

 

Actually i think that taking the post and breaking it down into a simple to follow answer works great. I dont think of it as picking it apart. Actually the way that JEHH posts here makes me want to have him instruct me. Would rather have a good question and answer session then him giving me a book and telling me to go at it.

 

Just my thoughts.....

 

a

[RHS1]

17k for CFI training!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is the kind of thing that throws a wrench in a students abilityu to complete there training and why so the shady company they are training with makes some more dime. I dont care how hostil this post sounds because this type of bul sh*t has to stop!!!!

[clay]

Jehh would you share with us which schools you will not hire CFI candidates from, might be useful in choosing a school.

 

 

I dont know if that would be very fair to ask of him.

[RHS1]

17k for CFI training!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is the kind of thing that throws a wrench in a students abilityu to complete there training and why so the shady company they are training with makes some more dime. I dont care how hostil this post sounds because this type of bul sh*t has to stop!!!!

Oh I forgot I spent about 3 grand on my CFI and not only passed with flying colors but i am working and from what im told excelling as a heli flight instructor so its not like the training was half assed

Edited September 12, 2008 by RHS1

[rick1128]

Why not? It takes instruction to learn how to teach, that is generally not something you can learn by reading the book.

 

One technique I have used when training instructor candidates is to have them ground instruct primary students under the guidance of a qualified instructor. It gets the CFI candidate used to working in that position. And having to qualified instructor there to expand and possibly correct any problem areas, benefits the primary student as they get a different view point. I have found it works well, but the CFI candidate must be knowledgeable. Initially I will have the candidate ground instruct me in various maneuvers and aerodynamics. I have also had candidates do preflight instruction of primary students, while I observe.

[rotor91]

Let's play nice kids....

 

I wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts, it's much appreciated. I've always wanted to get my CFI, and I think it's about time. I have checked a couple of schools in the area, and it's looking around $7K, leaning towards $10K at the most. The more prepared I am, the less I have to spend....I'm starting my book, so I'll keep you guys posted.

 

Thanks to everyone that chimed in....and keep chiming in if you'd like.

 

Anyone fly at JJ at Torrance? Looking for John Testa a CFI at JJ, my email to him got kicked backed. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Rob

R91

[Chopperjess]

You know me Rob, I flew at JJ. Please send me a PM and we can talk.