Student Attitudes

[beckwith]

I had a flight scheduled yesterday when the aircraft was running up on its 100hr. My instructor realized it was going to happen and called me a few hours in advances so we worked our schedules and I flew this morning. Nothing new there right? What surprised me was that when he called you would have thought he was telling me my dog was dead or something and today he thanked me for being so understanding and rolling with it. Turns out there are students out there that will flip sh*t over something like this. It is incomprehensible to me.

 

So my question to the board is this: Is it common for students to bust an attitude? Have you ever seen it either as a student or instructor, or heaven forbid done it yourself? Is it acceptable?

[ChprPlt]

I've been a CFI for over two years and yes some students will get pissed off over things like that. Thanks for being understanding I'm sure your CFI appreciates it!!

[500E]

The FI phones to say routine maintenance is being done, they knew before X hours ago that the 100 Hrs was due, Yes I could be really up tight, say I had shuffled My time to fit in with the schools flying hours, cancelled a meeting, postponed a trip for work or pleasure, it was nice of him to ring before you actually turned up, but what makes the school think your time is worth nothing?

If the ship goes down, or if the FI is ill, another thing altogether, It would be the routine bit and the few hours that would P*** me.

The school should have phoned not the FI (unless he was the owner) and apologised, and even suggested a cut in the first hour rate to compensate for your time

[r22butters]

Some people just go through life with a burr up their butt.

[beckwith]

The FI phones to say routine maintenance is being done, they knew before X hours ago that the 100 Hrs was due, Yes I could be really up tight, say I had shuffled My time to fit in with the schools flying hours, cancelled a meeting, postponed a trip for work or pleasure, it was nice of him to ring before you actually turned up, but what makes the school think your time is worth nothing?

If the ship goes down, or if the FI is ill, another thing altogether, It would be the routine bit and the few hours that would P*** me.

The school should have phoned not the FI (unless he was the owner) and apologised, and even suggested a cut in the first hour rate to compensate for your time

 

I see where you are coming from but I'm not sure I agree with the basis of your argument. Firstly I don't think that quote on quote routine maintenance is as predictable as you make it seem. The hours only go on when the ship is flying. so you can look out at the schedule and guess. but then a couple of flights go long or another ship goes down and everybody shuffles into the others and you can hit the your 50 or 100 a lot sooner then expected.

 

Why would I want the office to call me? They are nice people and I like talking to them but I would just have to call my instructor and work out the schedule anyway. Much better that they just told him and I got to speak directly to the person who can help me best.

 

As a student I think your suggestion of cutting the rate is ridiculous as well. Where would that money come from? Maintenance? the Instructor? I don't want that and chances are it would come out of my pocket and every other student's in the form of higher rates down the line. It didn't cost me anything if anything they lost money not having me there being billed why would they owe me money or time? Sure it messed up my schedule a little but sh*t happens you know?

[thrilsekr]

My flights got "bumped" more than I care to mention. You just gotta deal with it. No sense in getting angry. Sure sometimes I was miffed, but what are you gunna do? Demand to fly? That would not make much sense. Part of life and flying is playing what you are dealt.

Do those same students get angry if there is bad weather? Why don't you try stomping your feet real hard and huff and puff and maybe the clouds will go away, right?

[Snowman]

I sure would understand it and I do schedule my days off around flying. Not only for maintenance but sometimes other thing do come up, I drive two hours to fly so I would be bummed if when I got there they cancelled on me. But I would not let it ruin my day, nor cop an attitude about it. My CFI recently called me the night before a flight and asked if he could bump my time by 1hr to accommodate a photographer that he had been trying to fit in due to weather, no problem I said. He then added that if I wanted to come down at the original time I could fly as a passenger; got a great trip over Denver then did my lesson. No problem here, we all need to be a little flexible due to maintenance, weather, personal issues and the like. I cancelled last minute once and they did not charge me or hold it against me, it’s a two way street.

[Inferno]

Some people have attitude problems. As far as I'm concerned, they (at least the attitudes) have no place in aviation. We're a small community, and people who act like that will quickly be blacklisted and not make it far. Sh*t happens. Flights get canceled. Weather rolls in. Ships break down. Learn to roll with it, and not throw a temper tantrum.

 

As far as students acting like that, I have never seen anything as severe as you alluded to...

[rodrop]

Thats funny...cause my CFI told me yesterday (after our flight) that the A/C would have to be in for the 100hr today. He gave me the option to do ground (at my scheduled time) or take a chance and take a later afternoon appt. I opted for the ground because I knew the weather would not work out later in the day (I was kind of right). He gave me notice, I appreciated it (cause I did have a CFI that told me when I showed up a couple times that the A/C was not available etc)..

 

Anyway, I try to be flex but it is much easier when you are communicated with, clearly..and not always the one who gets booted.

[jumpngonuts]

I can see the disappointment of not being able to fly if you were looking forward to it, but it's not any different than having a flight scheduled for Friday after you canceled your trip or meetings and the conditions turn to IFR. If you show up and notice it's not open because of whatever reason then yeah it's irritating, but there's always studying to do. I drive over a hour to the place I rent and it's happened a few times this past summer and it sucks, but it's life.. Deal with it

[500E]

Snowman I would agree with your post it is a 2 way street I notice the FI phoned the night before, forward planing and good customer relations, if the boss also spoke to you and apologised for your inconvenience on your next visit, the feeling of a caring environment would be reinforced, & with a few $ discount on the next hour, what a good feeling + you would be here telling all! \\great school good instructor real sorry if they mess up your day, suggest you all try XYZ aviation talk to the owner great guy the FI are a great bunch.

I have cancelled lessons and not been charged but was surprised as I felt it would have been reasonable for then to at least charge a % of the time. I never thought of going to another school while training, then did my 500 conversion, & possibly soon a Gazelle conversion as well, so the loss of a few $ will pay off for them

 

We call understand weather and unforeseen maintenance, had flights cancelled for weather on numerous occasions, but it was suggested come out & do GSchool. or low level training (sloping ground, Q stops hover work), we all try to be flexible.

Remember they are running a business, & you are customer and it aint cheap to learn to fly!

perhaps less schools would fold with more professional customer orientated management.

If my employees or the Co. disappoints a customer, I personally will talk to them if they are here or phone them & apologise + make it my business to talk to them when they are next on site.

jumpngonuts

It is different, disappointment is very low on my radar, but cancelling due to weather is a judgement call due to safety, & you cant change the weather

Bekwith

I am not suggesting hours free but a goodwill $3\40 would or should not break the bank & it reinforces your feeling that you the customer are valued,.

There are people who have a dream to fly and spend every moment trying to gather the funds to Pay for time so a cancellation can mean a whole days pay down the pan, ( say 2 hours drive, 2 hours back 2 hours flying day gone) this is what they allowed for, now cancelled!, but that is only half of the loss because they have to now have another day off to fly, so 2 days lost pay.

I am long past temper tantrums, I do make my feelings known and then forget about it and get on with things, but if like rodrop and it happened more than once I would be inquiring why & how were they going to address the problem.

As a friend once said if you don't tell them how will they ever know

[Inferno]

500:

 

You make great points. Flight schools can never forget good customer service. Communication is key. The goal should be to inform students as early as possible. Sure, the night before is short notice, but that is often as early as you can get it.

 

Also, the number of ships an outfit has is important. If there are only 1 or 2 ships, if one goes down for maintenance, scheduling issues can come up.

 

But handling disappointment is an important skill for a pilot.

[rotorrodent]

I had a flight scheduled yesterday when the aircraft was running up on its 100hr. My instructor realized it was going to happen and called me a few hours in advances so we worked our schedules and I flew this morning. Nothing new there right? What surprised me was that when he called you would have thought he was telling me my dog was dead or something and today he thanked me for being so understanding and rolling with it. Turns out there are students out there that will flip sh*t over something like this. It is incomprehensible to me.

 

So my question to the board is this: Is it common for students to bust an attitude? Have you ever seen it either as a student or instructor, or heaven forbid done it yourself? Is it acceptable?

 

Many years ago, I had a student go ballistic because of a scheduled maintenance visit arriving earlier than planned. I understood his feelings as he was a business man with a very tight schedule as it was. Though he understood technically why, he didn't connect until I told him this:

 

"would you like to discover all the problems with the aircraft in the air, or would you like to have a mechanic find them for you in the hanger?"

 

He settled down and accepted a ground school review.

 

Cheers

 

Rotorrodent

[turbotay]

With everything else there will always be people with bad attitudes, basically the way I see it Flying is the best job in the world and should be treated that way. There will always be bumps, maintenance issues, bad weather ect. but as a student keep a positive attitude and you know if things don't go your way tomorrows another day. My teacher said "don't be just a Pilot, be an Aviation Citizen" means always have a positive attitude, be professional, and help out your fellow pilots for example a few weeks ago one of my friends at flight school had a friend coming over and he needed someone to switch blocks with I said sure no problem its stuff like that that makes you a professional pilot and helps to improve our industry.

[BillyBob]

Once or twice, no biggie. I would turn the day into a Reg's, Aerodynamics, or Pre-Flight review and move on.

 

When it happened to me more than that with absolutely no warning until I walked in, it raised flags. It showed a lack of concern for customers needs in my case and put together with other indicators took me and my $$$$ else where.

 

I had planned on working at the school after adding on a CFI/RH. After experiencing this and other questionable interactions I reevaluated my goals and spent my money more wisely.

 

Bottom Line: once or twice no problem, beyond that I get irked...

 

Remember who is the customer.

[beckwith]

Remember who is the customer.

 

 

It strikes me that the other adage that gets thrown around here is "remember flight training is just a really long interview."

[BillyBob]

It strikes me that the other adage that gets thrown around here is "remember flight training is just a really long interview."

 

 

An interview is a chance for both parties to 'get to know each other'.

 

Just because a pilot gets an interview and offer of employment, does not mean s/he will accept that offer.

 

If a school is disrespectful to PAYING customers, how do you think they will treat you when they are paying you?? A simple assessment of how the CFI's act will offer a great deal of insight in to how you will be treated in their shoes.

 

I never would have left a paying customer 'hanging' when I was teaching FW as a CFII/MEI. If I was held up or the A/C was down for maint. I would not let them waste their time driving out. I became invested in my students progress and valued them. When a school doesn't do that before they hire you, it will only get worse after they are paying you.

Edited November 26, 2009 by BillyBob