Post Flight Inspection Cards

[RkyMtnHI]

Hey all,

 

We of course use laminated inspection cards for preflight, start-up and shut-downs.. but have never seen one for post flight inspections so we are in the process of developing our own.

 

Any suggestions as to what you would put on yours?

 

I appreciate any and all input..

 

aloha,

 

dp

[AStarB3]

I can only speak for the R44

all tele-temps

flex couplings

hydraulic fluid

belts

oil cooler

empanage no dents

tail rotors no dents or cracks

parts or puddles

[Goldy]

Insure the clutch is fully disengaged, (unless you have brand new belts and are keeping them tight). Check after refueling that you have no leakage out of the fuel drain tubes. I've seen some that leak for hours...if you pull on them slightly and spin them, it usually stops them from leaking.

 

I'm curious what you do during start up with the governor? I've seen some operator checklists that start with gov off, other want to keep the gov on at all times during start up, flight and shut down....to avoid inadvertently hitting the collective start switch.

 

Pat Cox has said there is no way to activate the R44 starter because an oil pressure sensor will not allow it to activate in flight. 2 new flywheels in less than the first 100 hours seems to say otherwise...

 

Fly safe,

 

Goldy

[Inferno]

Our company checklists all have the governor on for engine start. I usually teach my students to leave the governor off until just before they are ready to spin the blades up to operating RPM and check the horn. It just comes from experience. Too many students neglect their throttle while they wait for the engine to warm up and I've had the governor kick in a couple times. Better to just avoid the situation....

 

As for post flight, I check everything important that isn't too hot (Belts, flex couplings, blades, tr assembly, skin, and the rotor mast). Oil level can be checked before the flight the next day, and it cold leak through the night anyways... Leaks are also easy to spot in our hanger since we keep the floor spotless... On the r22, this is easy, but the 44 gets so hot, I usually just open the cowl doors and do a quick visual inspection to make sure everything is still where it should be. This also helps everything cool down quicker....

[Goldy]

Our company checklists all have the governor on for engine start. I usually teach my students to leave the governor off until just before they are ready to spin the blades up to operating RPM and check the horn. It just comes from experience. Too many students neglect their throttle while they wait for the engine to warm up and I've had the governor kick in a couple times. Better to just avoid the situation....

 

Pro's and cons to both. Keeping the gov on, you will not overspeed the engine/rotor. I always learned the old way as well, (actually, we had no governor when I first started flying) But once they did come out, we left it off until ready to fly, and we manually took it up to 100%, did our low rpm check and split the needles. Then the gov came on and off we went.

 

I know of a few engine overspeeds that occurred on start up when students were not controlling the throttle prior to clutch engagement.

 

Sorry DP for taking the post in a different direction. Maybe we can get back to post checklists!

 

Goldy

[rick1128]

Generally I look at things like tires (if appropriate), fluid levels, airframe condition, leaks, drips, things that look out of place, etc. Generally turbine engines have to be checked with the engine warm.

[clay]

Is it all still there? Is anything dripping? Write down the Hobbs and move on.

 

 

 

 

Haha.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Been a while since I've looked at the Robinson POH, however take a look at it or your aircrafts RFM. There are often times a post flight inspection checklist in there.

 

JD

[heligirl03]

Sorry for the continued hijack, DP!

 

Agreed that there are pros and cons to both GOV ON/OFF, I learned the old way. However, with 60 Robbies on our line and as a busy certified Robbie service center we see far more OS's from people forgetting to turn the GOV ON at any point, than we do any sort of accident from the GOV being ON and "accidentally" engaging at 80%. A few months ago an instructor picked up an R22 at 75% with GOV OFF ... monstrous OS, new blades, engine rebuild, etc etc. Shortly thereafter, a private owner picked up his R44 with the GOV OFF in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere (he'd rolled it down and turned GOV OFF while waiting). Same deal, big mechanical mess. I teach GOV ON (check while checking warning lights during walkaround and again before turning key) at all times and have my students watch the tachs closely (teaching WHY early helps) throughout runup...doesn't seem to be a huge problem. The first time it slips past 80% they panic (I catch it immediately) and they watch it like a hawk in the future. Either way, I am in the aircraft from start to finish and my left hand never leaves the collective once their right hand reaches for the key.

 

As for postflight procedures (woohoo! back on track!), I do the same as Inferno for both R22 and R44.

 

 

HG03

 

 

Pro's and cons to both. Keeping the gov on, you will not overspeed the engine/rotor. I always learned the old way as well, (actually, we had no governor when I first started flying) But once they did come out, we left it off until ready to fly, and we manually took it up to 100%, did our low rpm check and split the needles. Then the gov came on and off we went.

 

I know of a few engine overspeeds that occurred on start up when students were not controlling the throttle prior to clutch engagement.

 

Sorry DP for taking the post in a different direction. Maybe we can get back to post checklists!

 

Goldy

[kodoz]

I can only speak for the R44

all tele-temps

flex couplings

hydraulic fluid

belts

oil cooler

empanage no dents

tail rotors no dents or cracks

parts or puddles

 

Pretty much this for the R22. Walk around starting with the cowlings, check fluids and tele-temps, belts, oil cooler (esp when finishing lesson with off-airport work), tail cone and empenage, TR fluids, TR linkages, TR blades, reposition MR blades if necessary, more tele-temps and belts, then back to cockpit to double check rotor brake engaged, switches off, and Hobbs.

[AngelFire_91]

With all this R22 and R44 talk, I feel that I should help you out with your 300's there Dp. Here is our Post-Flight checklist for the 300.

 

 

1. Aircraft Attitude - CHECK

2. Exterior - CONDITION & NO LEAKS

3. Blades - TIE DOWN & CONDITION

4. T/R Transmission Fluid Level - CHECK

5. M/R Transmission Fluid Level - CHECK

6. Keys - REMOVE

7. All Switches - OFF

8. Flight Controls - VERIFY FRICTIONED

9. Aircraft Times - CHECK & RECORD

[Spike]

Heligril03, Goldy

 

Not to continue the hijack, but, with regards to the governor setting during start-up, what does the RFM (POH) start-up check-list say? On or off? I’m just asking because I’m curious…..

 

DP,

 

To contribute to the topic, IMO, post-flight’s can go from a full blown preflight (or Daily Inspection) to a simple walk around. Truly, it boils down to the motivation of the pilot. Me, in addition to what has already been mentioned I try to standardize the cockpit. That is, I place all switches in off positions and set volumes in nominal positions. I also remove any non-standard items from the cockpit, cabin and cargo areas. In theory, I want the same blank canvas at the beginning of my pre-flight each and every day. In short no surprises.

[RkyMtnHI]

Heligril03, Goldy

 

Not to continue the hijack, but, with regards to the governor setting during start-up, what does the RFM (POH) start-up check-list say? On or off? I’m just asking because I’m curious…..

 

Good question, my understanding is that it used to say to shut them off, but that was changed a year or so ago because of the overspeeds. We never shut ours off except for checking operation. On that subject, we use the RHC laminated check lists as recommended by them. I know some schools use their own but was told at the Robbie course that could be an issue in an incident, the NTSB is going to look at every single thing in the helicopter.

 

 

Kev, when you say "aircraft attitude", what all are you looking for? I think i know but might learn something..

 

to perpetuate the hijack; :-)

 

Question for everyone.. in my past, someone had an overspeed in one of the R44s i was flying. The owners looked back over the past few flights and asked everyone who did the dirty deed... no one fessed up (however we had an idea who it was, one of three folks flying it that week, fortunately i wasn't on that list!), so, to keep from having to tear down the engine and do a complete inspection, the owner asked one of the newer CFIs to take responsibility for it and say it was a minor overspeed. The guy was actually thinking about doing it, 'taking one for the team', but we all threw a fit and that was that. Now, the question, almost all cell phones have cameras in them now.. it is paranoid to add taking a photo of the nut on the fan to our check list?? It seems a little bit overboard, but, it is about protecting the students..

 

thanks,

 

dp

[Spike]

to perpetuate the hijack; :-)

 

Question for everyone.. in my past, someone had an overspeed in one of the R44s i was flying. The owners looked back over the past few flights and asked everyone who did the dirty deed... no one fessed up (however we had an idea who it was, one of three folks flying it that week, fortunately i wasn't on that list!), so, to keep from having to tear down the engine and do a complete inspection, the owner asked one of the newer CFIs to take responsibility for it and say it was a minor overspeed. The guy was actually thinking about doing it, 'taking one for the team', but we all threw a fit and that was that. Now, the question, almost all cell phones have cameras in them now.. it is paranoid to add taking a photo of the nut on the fan to our check list?? It seems a little bit overboard, but, it is about protecting the students..

 

thanks,

 

dp

 

IMO, taking a picture to insure some form of protection against accusations shouldn’t be a required checklist item.

 

New pilots should be taught the responsibility of acting as PIC which includes ‘fessing-up to mistakes. If pilots become “paranoid” with their jobs and believe they need protection against accusations, then they are working or for an unjust safety culture. Flight schools should embrace the upcoming SMS requirements and promote the process of fessing up, learn from the mistake, institute a change to prevent the mistake form occurring again and subsequently move forward.

 

Again IMO, Your CFI should be commended for not appeasing the R44 owners. Furthermore, the R44 owners should be ashamed to even ask such a question and by trying to bait the CFI’s by calling it a “minor over-speed” is disgraceful at best.

 

Just say'n

[RkyMtnHI]

IMO, taking a picture to insure some form of protection against accusations shouldn’t be a required checklist item.

 

New pilots should be taught the responsibility of acting as PIC which includes ‘fessing-up to mistakes. If pilots become “paranoid” with their jobs and believe they need protection against accusations, then they are working or for an unjust safety culture. Flight schools should embrace the upcoming SMS requirements and promote the process of fessing up, learn from the mistake, institute a change to prevent the mistake form occurring again and subsequently move forward.

 

Totally agree with the above. What about the pilot that does the overspeed and doesn't know it or admit to it.. is it fair for the next guy to get credit for it (i guess so if he misses it on the preflight!)?? I honestly do not believe we have anyone like that at our school, but we are getting really busy and you just never know. I think back to the incident with the other helo and think that it would have been so easy to have held the guilty party accountable for the incident. (two issues here; one, the cost of the overspeed, and most important, not reporting it put others at risk). I admit, it's a hard one for me, but there have been many of those over this past year.. trying to protect everyone and keep them happy at the same time!! :-)

 

once again, i appreciate everyone's input...

 

dp

[Tarantula]

Just my opinion as someone just getting ready to undertake my flight training... I'd rather have the importance of a pre-flight stressed, with the inclusion of catching this like a previous overspeed. First, because if the heli has had an overspeed, and hasn't had the required steps taken, you really don't want to be flying it. While secondly, you are protecting yourself. Personally, I think making sure you follow your pre-flight checklist is very important, maybe this time you missed the overspeed... next time, who knows what might be missed.

[rick1128]

Just my opinion as someone just getting ready to undertake my flight training... I'd rather have the importance of a pre-flight stressed, with the inclusion of catching this like a previous overspeed. First, because if the heli has had an overspeed, and hasn't had the required steps taken, you really don't want to be flying it. While secondly, you are protecting yourself. Personally, I think making sure you follow your pre-flight checklist is very important, maybe this time you missed the overspeed... next time, who knows what might be missed.

 

I consider both to be equally important. When you become a professional pilot, one of the quickest ways to p*** off your Chief Pilot and Dir of MX is to spend a few hours at a maintenance base and then find a problem on preflight that you would have found on post flight 10 minutes prior to departure. Procrastination on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part. That machine is your paycheck. You need to keep it healthy. The more considerate you are with your mechanics, the more they will bust their butts for you.

[ADRidge]

I don't have the energy right now to write out a full checklist... I've driven 3200 miles in four days helping a buddy move. Typically all I do is check the teletemps, check all the flex couplings and fluids... basically a pre-flight in reverse.

[Mikemv]

DP,

Using the preflight card to post flight works well with judgement of how hard to look at particular items! Beyond that it is important to write up/note inop items found, time to next inspection due and time to next component due. Write ups should be addressed by ops/maintenance immediately and times to inspect/components also!

 

Also, how about cleaning off bugs(acid in bodies), dirt and oil/fluid drippings. If off airport ops were performed, maybe fresh water flushing the windows so the next guy does not take a rag and wipe/scratch them. Include inflation status of ground handling wheels.

 

Oh, probably found on preflight but address the expiration date of Sectionals & FD's after the flight.

 

Fly Safe,

 

Mike

[TimW68]

I am embarrassed to ask, but how do you actually detect a previous OS (engine or rotor) on a pre-flight inspection for a R-22? I would assume once started the vibrations & sounds of bearings and motor, but what would be visually obvious on the pre-flight?

Edited August 2, 2010 by TimW68

[kodoz]

I am embarrassed to ask, but how do you actually detect a previous OS (engine or rotor) on a pre-flight inspection for a R-22? I would assume once started the vibrations & sounds of bearings and motor, but what would be visually obvious on the pre-flight?

 

I've never seen it, but the the nut on the cooling fan will be out of alignment. But I've also heard of instances where there weren't any abnormalities on pre-flights, but the feather bearings have come up brindled on inspection (also, supposedly, a sign of an overspeed). Would be good to hear the full and real explanation from an A&P...

[AngelFire_91]

Dp, Attitude check includes making sure the aircraft is sitting level in reference to the terrain. If an Oleo is out, Drag strut, Crossbeam, or Frame tube is bent, it will sit a little differently then normal. That is all, mainly just making sure nothing is bent.

[RkyMtnHI]

Dp, Attitude check includes making sure the aircraft is sitting level in reference to the terrain. If an Oleo is out, Drag strut, Crossbeam, or Frame tube is bent, it will sit a little differently then normal. That is all, mainly just making sure nothing is bent.

 

Kevin,

 

ahh, thanks, that's what i was thinking, when we took over AC the struts were bad and had been for a while, it's scary how fast you can get into ground resonance with weak struts.

 

Chris,

 

"I've never seen it, but the the nut on the cooling fan will be out of alignment. But I've also heard of instances where there weren't any abnormalities on pre-flights, but the feather bearings have come up brindled on inspection (also, supposedly, a sign of an overspeed). Would be good to hear the full and real explanation from an A&P..."

 

I'm not an A&P but saw three overspeeds at another flight school. The cooling fan is fairly heavy, and if the engine is revved up quickly the fan just can't keep up and will spin on the bearings. The nut will show out of alignment and it's pretty easy to spot. The bearings are kinda cone shaped and when the fan turns on the bearing it will score the fan and the bearing.. the severity of the scoring gauges how much of an engine overspeed occured and what actions should be taken. The least priced repair was around $1200 for a minor OS. i might have some photos if anyone is interested...

 

dp

[TimW68]

Kevin,

 

ahh, thanks, that's what i was thinking, when we took over AC the struts were bad and had been for a while, it's scary how fast you can get into ground resonance with weak struts.

 

Chris,

 

"I've never seen it, but the the nut on the cooling fan will be out of alignment. But I've also heard of instances where there weren't any abnormalities on pre-flights, but the feather bearings have come up brindled on inspection (also, supposedly, a sign of an overspeed). Would be good to hear the full and real explanation from an A&P..."

 

I'm not an A&P but saw three overspeeds at another flight school. The cooling fan is fairly heavy, and if the engine is revved up quickly the fan just can't keep up and will spin on the bearings. The nut will show out of alignment and it's pretty easy to spot. The bearings are kinda cone shaped and when the fan turns on the bearing it will score the fan and the bearing.. the severity of the scoring gauges how much of an engine overspeed occured and what actions should be taken. The least priced repair was around $1200 for a minor OS. i might have some photos if anyone is interested...

 

dp

 

I would definately be interested in the photos !!

[RkyMtnHI]

Here are a couple of photos from our R44 that i took today. I will look for the others from last year but not sure if i have them. You can see the scroll fan and the nut in these, when there is an overspeed the nut will be out of line a few centimeters..

 

aloha,

 

dp