22 or 44?

[ridethisbike]

So moving on to the next semester and the wonderful world of VFR and Commercial training, I have a choice between what bird I want to fly in. The 22 and the 44. Please keep in mind that this is VA paid, so money isn't the issue.

 

I'm torn really. On one hand, I have the 44. Faster, larger, more stable. Getting out to the training area won't take as long because of its speed so I can spend more time on maneuvers and less time in transit. If I go this route, I lose 10 hours to a turbine transition in a 206. Which is cool, but I'd rather use those 10 hours perfecting maneuvers rather than learning about a new bird.

 

On the other hand, I have the 22. I get to keep those 10 hours to use on maneuvers, but I also spend more time in transit due to the lower speed. On top of that, not wanting to abuse what I consider a gift from the VA, going with the 22 would cost them far less money.

 

Double edged sword here. So, what would you do?

[lelebebbel]

There is little question that the R44 is the better training aircraft. However, the one thing you gotta ask yourself is, what do you do after finishing your license? Are you going to look for a low-time instructor job?

 

The R22 is less powerful, and more twitchy to fly and a lot harder to autorotate than a R44. Unfortunately, it is the most common machine used for training.

This means that when employing a new low time instructor to teach in R22s, you'd look for someone who has as much R22 experience as possible and has done his/her instructor course in the R22.

Switching from the R44 to the R22 is hard and even after 20-30 hours, people generally still aren't nearly as comfortable in it than someone with more R22 experience.

 

On the other hand, with 200hrs of R22 time, you would be able to transition into the R44 fairly easily. 10-20 hours to get comfortable maybe.

 

 

Now, if you have another plan other than instruction, I'd go with the R44. Maybe do 20-30hrs in the R22 at first but do the rest in the R44.

It'll be easier to learn to fly in, and it is far more common and useful in the commercial world.

[Mikemv]

Lee,

 

Consider doing your Comm & CFI in the R22 and CFII in the R44. Or Com in R44 and then CFI and CFII in R22. Make sure that you meet the SFAR requirements for PIC & CFI in both if possible.

 

For CFI job considerations, Lele has it correct that having more R22 time will be a better received by possible employers.

 

I think you learned at Heli Success that the 10 hours of turbine time means nothing to future employers. Use your deserved benefits to bring you something that will help you career wise.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Mike

[eagle5]

Whenever someone asks if they should do their training in the R44, I'm reminded of this story!

 

My second last job was in a 44 doing some external load and spraying. I had no 44 time and no external load experience. I got the job because they liked me, someone recommended me for it and I fit the bill. They had resumes from plenty of people with tons of 44 time. I was short on time for their insurance but not by much. They covered 50 hours in the 44 for me at no cost to get up to insurance specs

.

 

The ONLY reason to do your training in the 44 is if you are too fat for the 22 and you can't find a 300!

 

Don't waste your/their money!

Edited November 22, 2012 by eagle5

[superstallion6113]

I say R22 as well. I was in the R44 my first two semesters, and besides the job in Afghan I was offered, losing enough weight to fly in the R22 for my Commercial semester is the other half of my reason for taking a break from school. To me it just makes more sense to have more R22 time than 44 time.

[pilot#476398]

Some will say that R44 time can help you get a job, but I've met at least three CFIs, so far, who were hired without it (even though the school had an R44).

 

10hrs in a 206 ain't worth sh*t!,...no matter who's paying!

 

Keep in mind that since you're flying Robbies, you need a total of 200hrs to work as a CFI, but it ALL doesn't have to be in training with a CFI. If you want to practice maneuvers more (after your PPL), just take out the R22 and go practice by yourself! Don't let a school make you think its either an R44 and a 206, or an R22, do what YOU want!

Edited November 22, 2012 by pilot#476398

[Goldy]

10hrs in a 206 ain't worth sh*t!,...no matter who's paying!

 

Don't let a school make you think its either an R44 and a 206, or an R22, do what YOU want!

 

I don't think you can dictate how you want to train when the VA is footing the bill. There is most likely an approved training syllabus involved, so it may not be as easy as you might think to jump around.

 

If you could, I would also encourage you to get a bunch of R22 time so you are more valuable as a CFI...if your career route is going to take you into some form of commercial work and not CFI, the 44/206 route would make more sense. (usually a tough career route with low time).

 

As far as 206 time, if I had the choice between another 10 hours of R22 time, or 10 hours of 206 time, I would jump on the 206 (even though its not the most comfortable ship around!). What everyone is warning you about though, is 10 hours does not make you into a turbine pilot....its just an introduction to a different airframe.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Goldy

[pilot#476398]

I don't think you can dictate how you want to train when the VA is footing the bill. There is most likely an approved training syllabus involved, so it may not be as easy as you might think to jump around.

 

If this is true, it makes it much easier for a school to take advantage (like telling some kid that doing ALL his training in the 44 will make him more marketable!) and that just sucks!

 

As for the 206, I have 10hrs in one, and so far none of the employers I've talked with have given a rat's ass about it!

[rick1128]

Having turbine time will not make you more marketable as a CFI. Having the SFAR 73 signoff in both the 22 and 44 will. Do your CFII and some of your instrument in the 44 to meet the SFAR CFI requirements. Everything else being the same, unless the school only operates R22's, the instructor that is also signed off in the R44 as a CFI would be my pick, as I can do more things with him. It comes down to who can be the most useful and bring the most benefit to the school. Having a little bit of turbine time will not. Having R44 time and qualifications usually does.

 

To some extent you can dictate how you do your VA program. The school is required to list all the aircraft to be used in that program and their pricing is based on the most expensive aircraft. You do not have to do the program in that aircraft. As long as the aircraft you wish to use is listed on the approved list, your good.

[ridethisbike]

Regarding the turbine time, I understand completely what you guys are saying. I personally view that aspect of this program as robbing the students of time that they may need to help them perfect the maneuvers.

 

I came on here with this question to see if anyone would actually tell me to take the 44. The turbine was never a selling point for me on the program. It would be cool, but in the end, as stated, what good is it? None. The main thing that had me torn about it was the speed of the 44 vs the 22. I may spend a little more time in transit, but at least I'll have the extra 10 hours in the 22 since I won't be doing the transition.

 

Thanks guys. The 22 wins it.

[Kliss]

I feel your pain. Went through the same struggle before I signed up for this semester. One of the biggest parts that sold me on the 22 is scheduling the 44 is a nightmare. Only thing Im not lookin forward to in the 22 is the cross countries.