Weight and Height of CFI

[hobbsl]

This topic has been addressed elsewhere but it seems there are not many official answers being given. Before I even begin training full-time I want to be sure a reasonable method of building hours lies in the future. Is

being 6'1" 200-210 lbs absolutely disqualifying as far as teaching in R22's?

 

I want to ask on the forum because I need honesty and a school needing money may take mine regardless of my career options after training. I don't really need to discuss weight loss as this number is pushing my build to the brink.

 

Thanks,

Logan

 

 

[Carpenter]

Hello Logan,

I don't know that you will get much honesty here but here is my 2 cents based on my experience.

 

1. Schools are a for-profit business. Their existence relies upon taking your money, out of necessity for survival, so yes they will tell you what you want to hear, and they are experts at this.

2. Being over 6' is an uncomfortable challenge in helicopters, but it generally isn't a restriction.

3. While there are no absolutes in this business, I will tell you from personal experience that being over 200 lbs is a problem and you will more than likely never be able to instruct in the R22. I don't like using the word "never", because there are exceptions but the cold hearted truth is that this is true. Interestingly, being over 200 lbs is ok to train the R22, but then it is not ok to teach in the R22.

 

If you choose to make a career attempt, start by either training in a different airframe, or losing a lot of weight. There is no magic number but the lighter you are the better your opportunities will be.

 

I hope this helps.

[pilot#476398]

I have flown with three CFIs over 200lbs. in the R22. However, two of them ended up starting their own school, so I guess you could say that getting hired wasn't an issue,...or maybe it was, and that's why they started their own schools?

 

Over 180lbs puts the odds that much more against you, in an already extremely competative business. Of course the more you weigh, the less your passengers/fuel can weigh, which is why I've seen tour companies flying turbines have limits of 200lbs!

 

Its not a deal breaker, but if I were you I'd train in an S300!

Edited March 4, 2013 by pilot#476398

[hobbsl]

Thanks for breaking the news to me. Its quite discouraging but I guess its better to hear it now than when your'e a CFI. It does give me hope that there are CFI's in the 200 range but I don't think starting my own school would be reasonable with the available finances at the moment.

 

The school I would be training at also has the R44 available, and although I'm aware they could use their lighter weight R22 pilots for that ship as well, I'm curious if I would stand a chance at getting a job as a CFI in the slightly larger aircraft.

 

195 lbs. may be as low of a weight as I could maintain. Seeing the opinions regarding weight requirements makes me think fixed wing may be the more reasonable and lucrative career choice at the moment.

 

Any further thoughts or suggestions?

 

Thanks again.

 

 

[mausermolt]

im 5'9'' and i hover around 195-210. yeah im a chunky monkey, but i got hired as a CFII, in a IFR R22! weight and balance was a serious issue in that bird and it caused me to pass off many students to the other guys. but the boss liked me, i kept my nose to the grind stone, and i did my job. its not impossible, but like others have said its just stacking the deck against you.

[UH60L-IP]

At the companies I worked at as a CFI several years ago, if your resume didn't have a flight weight on it than it was shredded on receipt (assuming we didn't know you and therefore didn't know your weight). Likewise, if it was above 180, it was shredded. If you showed up for an interview and it looked like you were over 180, you would not get the job even if you were otherwise golden.

 

A lot of commericial jobs are limited to 225 or less. However, you gotta build the hours to get there.

 

Take a look at the job postings even on this board for the occasional CFI opening. It tends to back up the numbers.

[pilot#476398]

The school I would be training at also has the R44 available, and although I'm aware they could use their lighter weight R22 pilots for that ship as well, I'm curious if I would stand a chance at getting a job as a CFI in the slightly larger aircraft.

 

I wouldn't recommend doing your training in the R44 exclusively. If that's all you can teach in, it severely reduces your marketability (since the most common trainers are the R22 and S300). If you want to try for a larger aircraft, I'd go with an Enstrom.

[Lindsey]

I wouldn't recommend doing your training in the R44 exclusively. If that's all you can teach in, it severely reduces your marketability (since the most common trainers are the R22 and S300). If you want to try for a larger aircraft, I'd go with an Enstrom.

 

I wouldn't argue that training in an Enstrom would increase your marketability over training in an R44. Unless I'm missing something.

[Spike]

Maybe it’s a new, unwritten, fear but when I was teaching, there was no real concern about being over 200lbs.

 

With that, search for a school located at or near sea level. After that, if ya want to work as a CFII, do your training in a R22 and R44 to meet the Robinson SFAR requirements along with some time in a S300. THIS is the cornerstone of entry level helicopter marketability.

[pilot#476398]

I wouldn't argue that training in an Enstrom would increase your marketability over training in an R44. Unless I'm missing something.

 

I did here (from the Enstrom rep of course) that the S300 is going extinct and the R22 production is slowing significantly, "As you can see they didn't even bring one to the expo" he pointed out. He then said that Enstrom would be coming out with a new trainer?

 

Anyway, a good bet would be; Who is less marketable, and Enstom only CFI or an R44 only CFI?

[Goldy]

I did here (from the Enstrom rep of course) that the S300 is going extinct and the R22 production is slowing significantly, "As you can see they didn't even bring one to the expo" he pointed out. He then said that Enstrom would be coming out with a new trainer?

 

Anyway, a good bet would be; Who is less marketable, and Enstom only CFI or an R44 only CFI?

 

Why should Robinson go to the expense of flying in an R22 when there was a training booth right next to them with an R22 in it? Then another R22 down in the temp hangar booth? Yes, production is down, but like Kurt said last week, "if a customer came in and ordered 100 R22's we would build them". I think current sales puts them at 40 for 2012, up from 25-30 the year before.

 

Regardless, I have had two great R22 CFI's. One is 180-185 the other was 225. I was 225-240 at the time. Never did they have a problem getting a job, nor were we not able to do what we wanted to. Yes, about the highest we ever had to fly was 3000 MSL or so, but for some of those times we were flying the original R22, or an HP or an "A" model. Nowhere near the power of today's Beta II. Expect to do a lot of doors off flying!

 

Good pilots and good CFI's that network and reach out find work. The rest struggle and wonder why.

 

If 50% of schools throw out your resume, that's fine too. Plenty of others to talk with. That said, if you need to lose 20 pounds, do it now.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Goldy

[superstallion6113]

Weight has been one of my biggest fears, ok actually my biggest fear in finding a job once I graduate. It wouldn't be the end of the world, since I have an A&P to fall back on with 12 years of rotary wing mechanic experience, but it would suck to not fulfill my dream. I actually took a break from flying late last year to take a job here in Afghanistan as an A&P helicopter mechanic for a year. One, to save a bunch of money for potential low pay CFI years, and two, to lose ALOT of weight. I did my private in the R44 using the GI Bill, because I cannot fly in a 22 because I exceed the 240lb seat weight limit. I have lost almost 25lbs in the 2.5 months I've been here, and plan to lose another 30-40 or so by Aug, when I come home for vacation. Then, hopefully another 15-25 when I come back over until Dec 2013, which at that point, I come home and jump back into my instrument rating, and keep working out till I get to sub 200lbs. I've been working my BUTT off trying to lose weight, and it isn't easy, not the slightest bit. It's a major lifestyle change for me, but, I'm really hoping all the hard work ends up helping me get a job as a CFI when I graduate, AND I'll be a healthier person because of it.

 

With all of that said, I jumped into this career change when I left my job at Sikorsky Aircraft knowing what I was getting into, how minuscule my odds are at getting hired as a CFI with my size, and I did it anyway. My plan is to finally be at a low enough weight at the start of my commercial semester to train in the R22 B2, and in the process get the hours I need to be able to instruct in the R22. I'll probably have a 50/50 split of R22/44 time when I graduate at just over 200hrs, but, I don't see how that could be a bad thing.

Edited March 9, 2013 by superstallion6113

[pilot#476398]

Why should Robinson go to the expense of flying in an R22 when there was a training booth right next to them with an R22 in it? Then another R22 down in the temp hangar booth?

 

That thought did cross my mind, and having met that Enstrom rep before I know he's no fan of Robbie. However his comment on the S300, I've heard several times from others, so it makes me wonder, if the 300 does go the way of the Do Do because no one can find parts, how will that effect the training side?,...will it become all Robbie?

[Goldy]

That thought did cross my mind, and having met that Enstrom rep before I know he's no fan of Robbie. However his comment on the S300, I've heard several times from others, so it makes me wonder, if the 300 does go the way of the Do Do because no one can find parts, how will that effect the training side?,...will it become all Robbie?

 

Just because I fly Robbies (and own one) does not make me only a Robbie fan. Fact is, I love flying the 269/300 series of helicopters. Very stable and easy to fly. It's not widely known yet that the 300 is gone as far as new production is concerned but that does not mean the end of the line forever. There are thousands of these ships out there, so they will not just go away. Part prices may go up a bit as inventories shrink, but just look at the B47 as an example. They stopped building them back 40 years ago, yet they are still out there flying and working and parts are mostly available. Now that Scotts owns the TC, they are going to resurrect a turbine version and they have found new suppliers for MR blades, which was one of the more difficult items to find. The 300 will also live on..other models, like the Brantly, are slipping into obscurity.

[pilot#476398]

Now that Scotts owns the TC, they are going to resurrect a turbine version

 

Yeah, I saw that one its pretty cool! I'd love to fly it some day!

[Goldy]

He then said that Enstrom would be coming out with a new trainer?

 

Yes, the fact that Enstrom has a 2 seater is also not widely known. They are using a larger Lycoming 390 engine so they can keep the "heavier" rotor and feel of an Enstrom. I'm sure they plan to replace the 300C market that can no longer buy a new ship.

[Lindsey]

It's not a deal-breaker to be 200-210 pounds. I know several instructors that are (R22 instructors at that!). It will simply make finding a job more difficult, unless you happen to be in the right place at the right time. I would strongly suggest going the R44 route over the Enstrom route if you can't lose the weight. There are simply more schools with R44s than there are with Enstroms. Plus, if you eventually lose the weight later on, you can always move into the R22s and have familiarity with the SFAR. You can become the "go-to" guy for R44 flight instruction. Find a school that also does R44 tours. There are several out there. Both my company and "the enemy across the ramp" do (just kidding, just kidding, we're all friends). That can be your niche. Just my $0.02.

[pilot#476398]

You can become the "go-to" guy for R44 flight instruction. Find a school that also does R44 tours. There are several out there.

 

"It wouldn't be fair to the other instructors if I hired you just to fly the R44, and do all the fun stuff", is what a couple of employers have told me. So I don't know about being the R44 "go-to" guy?

 

Even if 70-90% of what they do is fly tours in the R44 they still want to hire someone who can also do the occasional instructional flight in that little R22 sitting in the back of the hanger collecting dust!

Edited March 10, 2013 by pilot#476398

[Lindsey]

 

 

"It wouldn't be fair to the other instructors if I hired you just to fly the R44, and do all the fun stuff", is what a couple of employers have told me. So I don't know about being the R44 "go-to" guy?

 

Even if 70-90% of what they do is fly tours in the R44 they still want to hire someone who can also do the occasional instructional flight in that little R22 sitting in the back of the hanger collecting dust!

 

Not always the case.

[pilot#476398]

Not always the case.

 

Which is why I always buy a lottery ticket!

[Lindsey]

Which is why I always buy a lottery ticket!

 

Hahaha, how well has that worked out for ya?

[hobbsl]

I've seen many CFI jobs posted for flight weight under 180 though and that's a real discouragement, but being in the 190's doesn't seem too drastic. I've decided to shoot for maintaining under 200 pounds. If there are R22 pilots flying over 200 lbs then my chances don't seem totally non existent.

The school I'm looking into instructs in R22's and R44's and does tours in R44's.

 

I'm meeting with the training manager soon, and wonder if it would be wise to inquire about their weight requirements for their CFI's?

[Kilo Romeo]

I wouldn't necessarily start the funeral procession just yet for the 300. Rumor is Sikorsky will start-up production again soon, building 24 300C's a year. No plans yet to re-start 300CBi production.

 

As for weight/height issue, a number of recent CFI job postings indicate applicants cannot weigh more than 180 for R22 positions. Does this mean the school will lose out on quality applicants? Absolutely. However, would you want to work for an organization that is a bit short-sighted to not even consider a quality applicant solely based on their weight, especially if it doesn't exceed the weight restriction of each seat in the R22?

 

Even more amusing are some recent postings for CFI's where the school requires a minimum of 500 TT with at least 100 PIC in the R44. How the heck is a newly minted CFI/CFII going to have 500 TT right off the bat? Not likely.

[pilot#476398]

Even more amusing are some recent postings for CFI's where the school requires a minimum of 500 TT with at least 100 PIC in the R44. How the heck is a newly minted CFI/CFII going to have 500 TT right off the bat? Not likely.

 

Now this is just a guess, but I'm assuming that that means they want a CFI with some teaching experience?...not someone "newly minted"!

Edited March 15, 2013 by pilot#476398

[hobbsl]

Luckily, it turns out the school nearest me does not place strict weight restrictions on their CFI's. One of the guys weighs 190, and although weighing 200 will be restricting in that I could only teach average weight students, my weight won't disqualify me as an R22 instructor.