The Importance of Networking

[Nearly Retired]

When we give advice to the Young Ones, we routinely tell them to network. "Get to know people in the industry," we tell them, "...all over the industry. Get to know people in as many different sectors as you can." I know, it's especially not easy to meet people in person, or even online with Facebook and other venues. But it is possible. "Newbies" correspond with me all the time, even though I'm no one special in the business aside from having been in it for 30+ years.

 

But then again I do it too! 1) When Michael Maya Charles was named editor of FLYING Magazine for about a week (after J. Mac was forced out), I found him on Facebook and contacted him. Now we're "Facebook friends" and he knows who I am. 2) After the Douglas DC-10 crash in Sioux City (United 232) I went to an event where the captain of that flight, Al Haynes was speaking. I made a point to go up and talk to him afterwards, and we struck up an acquaintance of sorts (not really friends, although we exchanged Christmas cards for many years). A great guy, he continues to be a personal hero of mine.

 

Over on the "bad" JH board, some guy posted the following:

 

"I saw the post below and was also thinking of going the route of flying utility. I have 25 years of flying, over 8000 hours but no 133. Are there company's that will get me my 133 if I stay with them a while? Single and can travel, pretty dry where I'm at now. I would appreciate any good advice. Thanks."

 

Needless to say, he got the usual smart-ass, unhelpful replies. One of them caught my attention.

 

In a response titled, "Where have you been hiding for the last 28 (sic) years?" a guy wrote: "...after all that time you don't have friends in the industry to ask, I have less than half of your time in the industry and know the answer or at least whom to call to get it."

 

At first I thought the responder was being overly harsh, as is typical on that forum. But upon reflection, I think he is right. The OP claims to have been in this business for 25 years - honestly, he should know more about it.

 

Not saying this happened here, but a lot of us get to a place where we just kind of stagnate. I saw it during my 13 years at PHI. There were guys who knew very little about the helicopter industry outside of the GOM, and furthermore knew absolutely nothing about aviation in general (fixed-wing, airlines, etc.). Which is fine if all you ever want to be is a GOM pilot. But if you have other aspirations, then you need to learn about the industry that pays your salary.

 

Facebook is an amazing tool. I know there are some people out there who get all huffy and pompously claim that they "don't need" Facebook (or sometimes they say they "don't do" Facebook). But by not using it, you are cutting yourself off from some amazing opporunities. Not saying that everyone you "friend" has to (or will) become your bosom-buddy, but it *is* a cool way of interacting with people you might never otherwise come in contact with.

 

The advice still stands: Network your ass off, in whichever way you can. And if you've been in this industry for more than two decades and don't know people all over the country, you really need to get out more.

[Captdmk]

What is your Facebook user name so I can send you a friend request? :-)

[Nearly Retired]

It's in my profile and in my blog. I'm not hard to find.

[avbug]

I don't network and never have. If I can't get a job on my own without buying my way in with name dropping, I'm not interested in the job. I've never had a job yet because of a connection, and don't intend to start.

 

I've no interest in being obligated or beholden to anyone. I seldom have any contact with anyone from a former employer; when I move on, I move on.

[gary-mike]

Wow, I still keep in touch with friends from my first and last assignment. That is the difference I guess, they are friends. I don't schmooze people to try to get one up for a job, I make friends that enjoy the same things I do. Some people have different views of networking, and the label doesn't help. I like hanging out with good people that share my interest.

[rjl2001]

I don't network and never have. If I can't get a job on my own without buying my way in with name dropping, I'm not interested in the job. I've never had a job yet because of a connection, and don't intend to start.

 

I've no interest in being obligated or beholden to anyone. I seldom have any contact with anyone from a former employer; when I move on, I move on.

To each their own, but I've been fortunate enough to get some career advice from many successful career helicopter pilots and a recurring tip they all give is to network within the helicopter community. When I get firsthand advice from someone who started one of the most successful helicopter tour outfits, or is the Chief Test Pilot with one of the major helicopter manufacturers, I tend to listen. I'm not even working as a CFI yet and I've been amazed over the last few years how small the helicopter world actually is. I've been able to learn about helicopter flying jobs I otherwise wouldn't have known about, and been able to talk to some pilots who are working at my 'dream job' because of what I would call networking.

 

 

To me it seems like you might be thinking of cronyism and nepotism, which isn't what I understand networking to be about. I still work hard and don't plan on receiving any breaks in this industry, but my hope is that others will notice my performance. By networking my hope is that maybe someday, someone I have met and spoke with might remember me when they hear about a new job opening or are sitting in my interview. I certainly would not expect any favoritism in the hiring process, but maybe I could find out about opportunities I otherwise would not have been afforded. Just recently since I've started applying places, I've been surprised to hear from a couple different industry professionals who have said the majority of job openings might never be openly advertised. Instead, often times the hiring person in the company can just count on the personal recommendations of their other employees to find a suitable number of applicants.

 

 

Case in point, just today I found myself doing some unplanned networking. A senior pilot for one of the major GoM operators happened to be giving a presentation I attended. I wanted to ask some questions afterwards, and that led to conversation where we discovered they had flown with one of my old flight instructors from a past school, and personally knew two other mutual acquaintances from that school. It came up that I had just recently applied for some non-pilot positions with that same operator, and so this pilot gave me their contact information and said they would be happy to help me if they could. I plan to email them, even realizing there might be little they can do to help me get the job, to thank them for their time answering some of my questions and ask if there is any advice that might help me be more competitive for that job.

[avbug]

Talking with someone, listening to counsel, or saying thanks isn't networking.

 

Networking is building a network of contacts in order to help you climb the career ladder Networking is what finds someone to walk your resume in to the chief pilot. Networking is making contacts for the purposes of profit. The concept behind networking is "use your friends wisely."

[helonorth]

Talking with someone, listening to counsel, or saying thanks isn't networking.

 

Networking is building a network of contacts in order to help you climb the career ladder Networking is what finds someone to walk your resume in to the chief pilot. Networking is making contacts for the purposes of profit. The concept behind networking is "use your friends wisely."

How's about not being such a pedantic twit? If you have to define a term so narrowly just so you can maintain your little mental image of self reliance, you've got some problems. I sure that it would be nearly impossible for you to get another job through word of mouth, though. Maybe you're not such an ass in real life, but I doubt it. Internet pilots...

Edited April 23, 2013 by helonorth

[Nearly Retired]

With all due respect to Avbug's incredibly pompous, cynical and horribly bitter worldview, networking *is* important in any industry. Whether a person chooses to avail himself of the tool is of course optional.

 

The concept behind networking is "use your friends wisely."

Perhaps if you have no friends to begin with... Ah, but there I go again.

 

No, it's not about "using" your friends. I've been in this business a long time. I've helped young pilots find jobs, either directly or indirectly. Sometimes it's simply a matter of turning them on to an employer who might be looking for pilots. Sometimes I'll get more involved than that. Done both over the years. Some of the people I've helped have actually been real friends, but some were just people I knew indirectly, through online sources for instance.

 

We can infer from Avbug's churlishness that *he* would never help another pilot get a job because *he* has never had to resort to that and obviously does not believe in doing such a distasteful thing. Normal humans would call that being a "selfish prick." Their philosophy seems to be: If an operator cannot hear about you through Divine Intervention (atheists need not apply) then you probably don't deserve the job.

 

Can you imagine knowing a guy like Avbug? Actually, I do know a few people like him. I avoid them. Life's too short to be that crabby and unhappy. Then again, if the Lord plagued me with recurring kidney stones because of my sour attitude toward life, I'd probably be crabby and unhappy too. So it's not like I'm unsympathetic.

 

Aviation has been very good to me. I would not be where I am without the generous help and guidance of mentors - some of which I'll never be able to repay. And so I try to return the favor when and where I can. To you young guys I say: If the term "networking" is so objectionable, then call it something else. But please don't neglect it. There are plenty of us old-timers out here who can and will help you who are just starting out. You just have to find them/us.

[Flying Pig]

What is your Facebook user name so I can send you a friend request? :-)

Believe me..... Its worth the effort to find him

[avbug]

We can infer from Avbug's churlishness that *he* would never help another pilot get a job because *he* has never had to resort to that and obviously does not believe in doing such a distasteful thing.

 

You might do better to speak for yourself and avoid putting words in others mouths. For one who brags about his Christianity and puts others down for his radical judgements, you're quite the hypocrite. I've helped quite a few get places, but I'm under no obligation to do so, and whether I do or not is none of your business.

 

If I never help a soul get a job, that's just fine. I'm not paid to do so, I'm not expected to do so.

 

I once had a snot-nosed copilot tell me "Its your job to make me a captain." No, it wasn't. I wasn't being paid at the time as his instructor, his check airman, or line training captain. I was being paid to fly as pilot in command, and he was not. What a sense of entitlement.

 

You really can't infer. Ou can pass ignorant judgements. You can put words in others mouths because you really can't seem to stick to facts or to simply speak for yourself. You can't resist the urge to overstep your bounds on a regular basis.

 

Normal humans would call that being a "selfish prick."

 

Perhaps you ought to stick to the "other board." Quite the little judgemental self-righteous little Christian, aren't you? No, we haven't forgotten your cherry-drying thread. I'm not a normal human being, according to you, and your suggestion here is that you are. You're calling me a "prick," and a selfish one at that. Perhaps you should hustle along with that retirement. Did I piss in your cherios today? Insult your mother?

 

I would not be where I am without the generous help and guidance of mentors - some of which I'll never be able to repay.

 

I've no doubt about that at all. It doesn't surprise me a bit that you weren't able to make it on your own.

 

Then again, if the Lord plagued me with recurring kidney stones because of my sour attitude toward life, I'd probably be crabby and unhappy too.

Wow. Now I'm cursed by God? How does one respond to that kind of stupidity?

 

I've never had recurring kidney stones, incidentally.

 

Their philosophy seems to be: If an operator cannot hear about you through Divine Intervention (atheists need not apply) then you probably don't deserve the job.

 

What on earth are you talking about? You ought to stick to thumping bibles and get your retirement over with. I've said noting about intervention. Are you unable to fathom getting a job on your own? Just not up to the task? Don't know how to put a stamp on a resume, or how to approach an employer?

 

What has divinity got to do with applying for a job? You think that an employer receiving an email or fax or letter is somehow divine? Does one who applies for a job care about religion, or use it in the resume?

 

Such stupidity. Do you ever listen to yourself speak?

 

Perhaps if you have no friends to begin with... Ah, but there I go again.

 

Yes, you do, speaking out of turn, judgementally, putting words in others mouths, and making idle references and accusations with no basis of fact.

 

Certainly I have friends, but then I have no need to use them to get somewhere. I have no need of dropping names to get a job, or even to walk in my resume. I'm an adult, and I've been able to go find my own work for a very long time now. That you haven't isn't surprising. Divine intervention isn't necessary. Nothing supernatural about sending in a resume, or being qualified to get hired somewhere. Is there something about you that won't allow you to get hired without God interceding on your behalf, or a mentor or friend pulling you into the job?

 

With all due respect to Avbug's incredibly pompous, cynical and horribly bitter worldview, networking *is* important in any industry. Whether a person chooses to avail himself of the tool is of course optional.

 

It's certainly important to those who can't get hired without networking, isn't it? I said nothing arrogant or pompous. I said I don't network. I don't need to. I do fine without it. And yes, it's optional, and yes, it's my choice. You find that arrogant, do you? Doesn't surprise me a bit.

 

Your vision of the world is indeed an interesting one. You've been talking about the need for retirement. I whole heartedly agree. Go play golf.

Edited April 23, 2013 by avbug

[Dreamin of a Commuter 2B]

I have made many good Friends that are Helicopter owners and Pilots over the years on facebook and on hangerchat.com, hanger chat is run by Adam Miller and he flys a BO-105, I met him in person last year when I invited him to Bensen Days Gyroplane and Helicopter fly-in in in Wauchula, it is nice to meet someone in person after talking to them for a while on line. the Highlight for me is I got to take the Stick in the BO-105, but the best part is His family and mine have become good Friends. This Year I met Victoria Rahming and her Boss, I had been talking to her for about a year and got her to Bring in the R-66 Turbine to do rides at the Fly-in. I got to meet her Family also and when we get moved to Florida we plan to hang out some. I sadly will probably never have a job flying as right now my funds don't even allow me to take lessons. So I am not networking to try and land a Job, I enjoy networking to meet good people that love to fly. I have several friend on facebook that I recognized the names from V.R. and someday I hope to meet more of them in person. if someday it opens some doors for me, thats great. but I don't network for personnal gain. I guess networking means other things to other people. but to me it is it just another means to meets people that have the same interests as I do, feel free to look me up on facebook. Timothy Heilig.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Dreamin of a Commuter 2B

[Flying Pig]

This post is not in response to any particular post.

 

Ive never interacted for the purposes of "networking". Ive just made contacts with people out of mutual interest where neither side had anything to gain. I guess Ive been fortunate in that respect. Perhaps its different when you are actually looking for a job. Certainly nothing wrong with it though as long as you are honest. And certainly nothing wrong with just making friends and contacts in the industry. Networking is an understood and respectable way to meet people. Just be aware and honest enough with yourself to know the difference between networking and befriending people for personal gain.

 

I can tell when people are making contact with me for networking purposes. I don't have an issue with it at all. But I am straight forward about the fact that networking is not going to get you a job where I work. If we end up hitting it off as friends, so be it. But don't invite me to lunch, beat around the bush trying to make small talk and then ask me if we are looking for pilots. I don't really have time for it. Id much rather someone say "Id like to treat you to lunch and talk about how you got to where you are."

 

People didnt even invite me to dinner when I was single..... So when they do it now, I know there is a catch

[Nearly Retired]

I think some of you are completely misunderstanding the concept of "networking." It's not some sinister, nefarious, disreputable act.

 

Flying Pig says:

Ive never interacted for the purposes of "networking". Ive just made contacts with people out of mutual interest where neither side had anything to gain.

 

THAT'S NETWORKING.

 

Networking isn't all about "using" someone to better yourself, or being taken advantage of by someone looking for a job. Networking is merely the act of getting to know other people in the same industry as you. You meet like-minded people and develop a (what's it called?) "network" of contacts. You may never, ever, ever use them to get ahead in the world. And if you don't, great. You've made some good professional contacts, and there is always much to learn from others who have the same interests in common, especially in aviation. But maybe...just maybe...one of them hears about a job and remembers you. And calls you up. THAT is all you can hope for, really.

 

Perhaps we've given the wrong impression to the Young Ones. Perhaps the message that is being received is: "Find others in aviation and get to know them only to see how you can use them to get a job." But that's the wrong message. And that's not the one we are transmitting.

 

Nobody likes a suck-up, and I sure don't like being taken advantage of. But for those of us who have been in this industry a while, why *can't* we look out for each other a little?

 

If somebody contacts me and says, "Hey, I'm a helicopter pilot too! Want to keep in touch?" I'll say sure! In general, I like helicopter pilots. (Well...most of them...) If you're enthusiastic about flying these crazy contraptions, then welcome to the club! I like you already.

 

If somebody contacts me and says, "Hey, I'm a commercial pilot, here are my quals, do you know of anyone looking for a pilot?" I will help them if I can.

 

If someone contacts me and says, "Hey, can I buy you lunch?" I'll say YES! even before the sentence is out of his mouth. If he says "beer" I might even answer faster Because you see we have common interests: Lunch and beer. I might like you more than if you're just a pilot.

 

There is nothing wrong with getting to know people in the industry. In fact, I'd say it's pretty mandatory whether you want to further your career or not. I won't say I know tons of people in every segment of aviation, but over the years I've met and kept in contact with a lot of them. It's called "networking" and I'll probably never use it to try to get a job, being that I'm nearly retired and all.

 

 

[Flying Pig]

You are right... I agree 100% with your post. Maybe its just how I interpret the word

 

To me, "Networking" is something that is done to create contacts for later use. Again.... Great... DO IT!! You would be dumb not to.

 

What I was getting at is that I don't want people befriending me because I might be able to do something for them in future. I had out business cards to pretty much anyone who asks me for one. On it, it says "Deputy Sheriff Pilot" I generally give them to other pilots I meet at FBOs, people I meet related to aviation. The days of me giving cards to victims is pretty much over because Im not out on the "street" anymore. Those people are developing contacts for later use. Again, that idea of them remembering that guy a couple months ago and giving me a heads up about a job that is coming open, Yes.... Guilty! Its happened to me two or three times and its pretty cool when you can make an impact to the point where someone remembers "that guy".

 

But what I dont do, and what I dont want done to me is someone trying to be my buddy simply because of my job and what it might do for them. Maybe I took the topic a little deeper than needed. But I think you are right on with what you said above. If I ever make it to Pensacola, I plan on networking with you over seafood and a frosty beverage

Edited April 23, 2013 by Flying Pig

[Nearly Retired]

REPLY SPECIFICALLY TO AVBUG: ALL OTHERS DISREGARD!

 

 

Avbug, oh Avbug...man, I'm usually the curmudgeon on boards like this, but you outcurmudgeon me by a mile! Maybe two. Thousand.

 

I won't get into a pissing contest with you. But i do have one teeny little question. You said in your post just above:

 

I've never had recurring kidney stones, incidentally.

 

Umm, well...but did you not post this back on 24Feb?

 

A year and a half ago I lost my medical. Kidney stones. Medical certificate remains intact, doesn't change, but the privileges thereof are dead in the water. Same as having no medical at all.

 

Kidney stones, eh? I thought you said you didn't... But wait! And then...

 

In my case, it was three different surgeries, a stent between my kidney and bladder, a host of tests, and several months of down time during which every time I heard a shower, had a glass of water, or took a leak, it was a new experience in pain...felt like I was being punched in the back.

Next time that happens I'm going for one last skydive with a really low pull.

 

So, excuuuuuuuuuse us for thinking that you've been troubled with recurring kidney stones. I could probably find the post where you said that you're only a mechanic and not a pilot now, but honestly, reading through your posts was putting me to sleep. Kinda like when I read back through my own posts...only worse!

 

I won't copy and paste your entire inane response to me (the one above). Because it is simply inane bordering on incoherent. Will you ever stop drinking before posting on here??

 

But hear me out man, you *do* come off as a selfish prick. You're a ball of contradictions. You say that you *have* helped "quite a few" people get places (passengers, probably), but in the same breath claim that you are under no obligation to do so, are not paid to do so, and are not expected to do so. "Selfish prick." See above. Yes you are. It's not a legal obligation but a moral one. Why is it no surprise you have no morality, you Godless heathen? You show disdain for everyone else in aviation who is not you. So *you* must be God then! SkyGod Avbug! Must be a real pleasure flying with you. Oh, and as Wayne of Wayne's World would say, NOT!

 

Look dude, lighten up. We're just goofing around here. Take one of them chilly pills. Life's too short to be as angry as you seem. And pompous. I pray for you, my brother. Seriously. I pray for you like I pray for "that woman" in her interminable divorce (man, that thing just keeps going on and on and on - but then, she got a book deal out of it so I guess she now has some motivation to keep the drama going like a bad soap opera: "As The Rotor Turns").

 

Finally my buddy Avbuggy, if you do hear of any job openings for an old, broken-down 206B pilot, could you let me know? I know, I know...I say I'm "nearly retired" and I would like to quit and go drink professionally (drinking heavily makes me pee a lot and keeps my system flushed out and thus, unlike you, I've never been prone to the dreaded kidney stones). But I'd like to go out with a bang - one last hurrah - some nice cushy 206 job to end my illustrious career, maybe longlining or fighting fires somewhere (doesn't have to be in the U.S.). I mean, I could probably learn to longline. You should see me dangle that thing right over the bowl when I go to relieve myself after a few beers! Hits the spot every time

 

(Thank you all non-Avbuggers for not reading this claptrap.)

[JCM5]

Social capital = good.

[avbug]

So, excuuuuuuuuuse us for thinking that you've been troubled with recurring kidney stones. I could probably find the post where you said that you're only a mechanic and not a pilot now, but honestly, reading through your posts was putting me to sleep.

 

No excuse, as I never said any such thing. I had one case of kidney stones and was grounded for three months pending three surgeries and treatment.

 

The FAA has no issues returning an aviator to service after one instance, provided one can be medically certified to be free and clear of the problem. A recurring problem is a whole 'nother kettle of fish, and I didn't have that, and I have never suggested any such thing.

 

You did that when you attempted to put words in my mouth and make assumptions, again.

 

Too much alcohol again?

 

I pray for you, my brother.

 

Don't. I'd find your prayers offensive. You are to Christianity what the devil is to backgammon. Irrelevant and pointless, to say nothing of non sequitur.

 

I'm not your brother.

 

You're a ball of contradictions. You say that you *have* helped "quite a few" people get places (passengers, probably), but in the same breath claim that you are under no obligation to do so, are not paid to do so, and are not expected to do so.

 

No contradiction, as I am always consistent.

 

I can and have helped people on many occasions, though I'm under no obligation to do so. There is no moral imperative to which I am beholden, to you, or anyone else, and certainly not to the industry.

 

I can help whom I choose, or no one if I choose. I don't seek it from others, and I don't help everyone I encounter, either. Those who are deserving and whom I choose to help, perhaps, but no one is entitled to that assistance. Your arrogance in assuming such entitlement is your own failing, but puts no burden on me.

 

Why is it no surprise you have no morality, you Godless heathen? You show disdain for everyone else in aviation who is not you. So *you* must be God then! SkyGod Avbug!

 

You really are a piece of work. Please tell me you wrote that under the influence and that's not really you, speaking.

 

I've made two assertions here: one is that I don't network. For that I was called pompous and arrogant. I've also said I am under no obligation to help others as they network. For that I'm a godless heathen, a "skygod," and you've declared me to be cursed by God.

 

Early senility, then, or just the alcohol speaking? You're not really that much of an ass, are you?

Edited April 24, 2013 by avbug

[apiaguy]

if you feed them they will come.

[Counterrotate]

if you feed them they will come.

The trolls? Yes. Get ready. There's a hungry troll coming in this next post.

[Counterrotate]

And so here again Religion rears it's ugly head where it does not belong. Leave it to Nearly Retired to drag that up again. This type of behavior is exactly why I find Religion so repellent. I have been putting up with it for my entire life and at some point just got fed up with hearing all the "holier than thou" crap and decided to put my foot down. How dare you think you are better than avbug or anyone else because you have God on your side. I bet, if there is a God, that he's shaking his head in shame at your behavior. For someone who claims to be a Christian, your values hardly reflect that. I actually think I would enjoy having a few beers with avbug and arguing about minutia, but the idea of sitting next to you and listening to your self-righteous diatribe makes me sick. Keep it to yourself please. It has no purpose here.

[pilot#476398]

Hmmm,...if I were to buy God a beer, would he help me find a better job?

[avbug]

Hmmm,...if I were to buy God a beer, would he help me find a better job?

 

There's only one way to find out.

[turbotay]

One of the coolest contact and friend I've ever made was this old geezer whose facebook email I'd been filling up with questions about the S55 and the 206

[Nearly Retired]

Listen bub, I started this thread; I control what's said in it, and if YOU don't like it tough. If you want to get drunk with Avbug that's fine- however you like to waste your time is no concern of mine. Meanwhile, if you have something constructive to add to this thread about networking, you better add it now. Otherwise, STFU or I'll come over there and smack you in the mouth so hard Avbug's ass will hurt.