Army gets new Tilt-Rotor

[revaequitas]

As for the crashes, they were mostly, unfortunately, avoidable. There was the miswired FCC, entry into VRS from a decent rate outside of NATOPS at the time and the last one was a combination of mechanical and human error. Had they not pressed PFCS Reset so many times and RTB'd they may have made it. Granted, the electronic side of the problem should have not existed. It's really a combination of high media coverage and stupid mistakes that tarnished the V-22. Now thats it's been full production for years you still get the: "Doesn't that thing crash all of the time?". Just something us guys in the V-22 community have to live with haha.

[Hotdogs]

 

 

[revaequitas]

 

 

 

What?

[Jester2138]

Not going to argue with you; we'll agree to disagree and I'll continue to watch the progress of tilt rotors from a safe distance.

 

The POTUS and top Pentagon officials don't seem to mind flying around in it all the time when they visit war zones, must be safe enough for them!

[superstallion6113]

POTUS flying in a V-22? Not trying to sound like a jerk but I'd have to see it to believe it. At HMX, when the POTUS went to a combat zone, we sent our own VH-60Ns over in a C-17 for in country flight of the POTUS.

[revaequitas]

I did just see some green top 22's landing on Friday, maybe the beginning. We did fly Obama in '08 in Iraq but at that time that wouldn't be POTUS.

[superstallion6113]

I did just see some green top 22's landing on Friday, maybe the beginning. We did fly Obama in '08 in Iraq but at that time that wouldn't be POTUS.

The HMX gloss green V-22s are green side aircraft replacing the CH-46E fleet there, which do Presidential support, such as transporting White House press, aids, some secret service, guests, etc. The VH-3D and VH-60N a going to remain in service until a suitable replacement is decided upon down the road, last I heard. I'd be very surprised if the 22 is ever even considered in the running, let alone chosen. I'd put my money on the S-92 in the next running for the VH replacement.

[revaequitas]

I could never imagine them letting it land on the lawn, burning two holes in the ground lol. THey fly in Delta's right? Do they wear shirt stays lol

[zVo]

V-22... doesn't that thing crash all of the time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[revaequitas]

Ha lol

 

BTW nice avatar

[I3uller]

Funny story, I worked at the White House for a while and every time Marine 1 would come in they would put out three ~4 foot wide red metal discs on the lawn for the landing gear to keep the grass nice. I'd imagine the 22 would tear the south lawn to pieces as well as blow all the media filming the landing across the grounds.

[revaequitas]

Lol the media will learn quick to avoid falling tree branches. I've been a victim of the wash lol, it's pretty serious but I'd say it's comparable to a loaded Chinook landing. I say this from experience. I was servicing the midwing gearbox and a hook came in. I thought, oh sweet, a 47 coming to land. I'll watch. Well the H was right next to my plane and I almost went for a dive off the wing lol. It also blew the covers off another V-22 behind me, which I had to chase.

[PhrogGuy]

Lol the media will learn quick to avoid falling tree branches. I've been a victim of the wash lol, it's pretty serious but I'd say it's comparable to a loaded Chinook landing. I say this from experience. I was servicing the midwing gearbox and a hook came in. I thought, oh sweet, a 47 coming to land. I'll watch. Well the H was right next to my plane and I almost went for a dive off the wing lol. It also blew the covers off another V-22 behind me, which I had to chase.

Case and Point.

http://youtu.be/whngAV9igdA

[revaequitas]

Exactly lol, fun times.

 

Another nice thing is being able to take fuel from kc-10's and 135's

[PhrogGuy]

Exactly lol, fun times.

 

Another nice thing is being able to take fuel from kc-10's and 135's

Yeah, a Phrog can do that too. Run that hose over the flight deck and gravity fuel. Or, winch the fuel hose through the hell-hole in hover and fuel into the long range tanks. Check-mate my friend (with your funny external fuel probe).

[revaequitas]

Hey man it's just like a red rocket, stows to keep the dust off and so it doesn't get chopped like that 53 chasing the basket lol

 

I did that for Fleet Week '09, that was so awesome, it was like being a rockstar. I got to fly low with Lady Liberty and fly over the Intrepid with a Hornet in form with us, pretty kick ass. I miss those days.

[UH-CV-Alex]

Oh gosh.. more CV-22 bashing. Well though I'm trying to go be a W.O. for the Army, I'd volenteer for an Army tilt rotor in a heart beat. It looks to be a HH-60 replacment.. with awesome rockets. lol This thing will take a while to make. But it looks to take into account a ot of the "issues" we've had to work through with the CV-22.

 

The CV-22 does have issues, I've been with the Air Force program sine 2009, but it's gotten a lot better. Doing in excess of 250 KCAS is quite enjoyable, especially since I came from the UH-1N before CV's. The thing most people forget when they "bash" the tilt rotor program is that it's the first type of aircraft of it's kind. Ya we had the test versions in the 50's (which the Army wanted / funded) but this is the first full production tilt rotor. The first airplane and the first helicopters had their own issues.

 

I don't know where some peole get their data.. but someone says this thing transitions slow? That's a good joke. When we're deployed, we nightly raced home C-130's as well as 47's back to base and saw them landing while we were at the chow hall getting breakfast.

 

I just wanted to clear the air a bit on the CV-22. A lot of old intel and a lot of uneducated on tilt-rotor opinions of there. See ya.

[revaequitas]

I didn't even know that they had H-1's in the AF.

 

The transition thing is wrong too as you said. My squadron did the first V-22 MEU offload and they gave us a window to get to the boat...a helicopter window. By the time we were on the downstops we were already at the LHD and they weren't ready to offload lol.

 

Back to the subject of the thread, I was talking to one of my pilots today and he mentioned some things about the Bell bird. One thing is how the motors are horizontal, so they don't have come up with a way to deal with the oil sliding all over the place. There are also a lack of gearboxes, at least most likely, so it will be interesting to see how different the "nacelles" look on production. Finally, the engines didn't seem to have an EAPS rendered so that too will be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

I'm pretty excited and hope they can come up with something the Army will be happy with.

[PhrogGuy]

I didn't even know that they had H-1's in the AF.

 

The transition thing is wrong too as you said. My squadron did the first V-22 MEU offload and they gave us a window to get to the boat...a helicopter window. By the time we were on the downstops we were already at the LHD and they weren't ready to offload lol.

 

Back to the subject of the thread, I was talking to one of my pilots today and he mentioned some things about the Bell bird. One thing is how the motors are horizontal, so they don't have come up with a way to deal with the oil sliding all over the place. There are also a lack of gearboxes, at least most likely, so it will be interesting to see how different the "nacelles" look on production. Finally, the engines didn't seem to have an EAPS rendered so that too will be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

I'm pretty excited and hope they can come up with something the Army will be happy with.

How do you guys do the EAPS? We have an air intake plenum that routes the air by the EAPS prior to ingestion into the compressor section.

[Joe_P148]

I'm under the impression that this aircraft looks like a Sherpa with twin rotors. Frankly, due to it's plane like apperance I see this used for VIP missions where VTOL and short field takeoff is necessary. As for it's superior range, that is great for penetration missions or CSAR. This is really not a job for the army with the exception of special operations. I see no armarment on the model shown in the pictures and no crew station / window for crew members to clear the tail or defend the aircraft from ground fire. From a tactical standpoint it just doesn't work. Of course the generals and beurcrauts are gonna jam it down our throats as a good idea. I see a handful of C-12 pilots probably getting the transition but the airframe staying more in the fixed wing role than rotory wing role.

 

On a side note I have an actor friend who played in one of the Bell videos. I am still making fun of him about it.

[revaequitas]

Joe,

 

Good stuff, like I was saying, it's a rendition so the "final" product may very well look a lot different. I guess we'll see.

 

SSgt....haha, I thought you'd like that. Our EAPS are connected to the EAPS Scroll which is just after the intake. It's almost a right angle before the compressor. At about 7 and 5 there are the blowers which obviously pull the heavier debris out through the blowers. I have some stuff on the 'ol id, I'll see if I can get one to post tomorrow

[PhrogGuy]

Joe,

 

Good stuff, like I was saying, it's a rendition so the "final" product may very well look a lot different. I guess we'll see.

 

SSgt....haha, I thought you'd like that. Our EAPS are connected to the EAPS Scroll which is just after the intake. It's almost a right angle before the compressor. At about 7 and 5 there are the blowers which obviously pull the heavier debris out through the blowers. I have some stuff on the 'ol id, I'll see if I can get one to post tomorrow

Well, I am . . . but you are out now so you can call me what you want. Just not lazy. Hmmm. Interesting stuff. I was looking at an HMX bird and it seemed that there was a "fixed wing" engine cowl/intake and I really didn't see and obvious EAPS exhaust like there is on a Phrog. I have seen the nacelles torn apart and it makes my head spin trying to figure out how everything works. The guys that design the stuff are pretty smart, I will give them that.

[Joe_P148]

Joe,

 

Good stuff, like I was saying, it's a rendition so the "final" product may very well look a lot different. I guess we'll see.

 

SSgt....haha, I thought you'd like that. Our EAPS are connected to the EAPS Scroll which is just after the intake. It's almost a right angle before the compressor. At about 7 and 5 there are the blowers which obviously pull the heavier debris out through the blowers. I have some stuff on the 'ol id, I'll see if I can get one to post tomorrow

 

I just don't see the need for it other than for VIP or deep pentration / long range infiltration operations. The current spectrum of Army Aviation aircraft covers all the demands of the current customers. I see this as another political business deal. Case in point the decision to scrap the OH6 over the Bell 206 or OH58. To this day if you ask loach drivers, the aircraft hands down out performs and is much more crashworthy then the B206. Anyways, the point is I don't see the need for the tilt for the army in the tactical role.

[Hotdogs]

As for it's superior range, that is great for penetration missions or CSAR. This is really not a job for the army with the exception of special operations. I see no armarment on the model shown in the pictures and no crew station / window for crew members to clear the tail or defend the aircraft from ground fire. From a tactical standpoint it just doesn't work..

 

Speed was the selling point. I can use 2 Ospreys to move one company in two waves in the same amount of time it would take 3 or 4 Phrogs in the same amount of time and do so at a greater range. You don't design a support platform to "clear the tail" or "defend the aircraft from ground fire." You design it to get in drop its playload and get out. That's it. Painful as it is to say, but tiltrotor is the wave of the future for military operations. The Army wouldn't buying into it if it didn't see the advantages.

[Joe_P148]

Marines may want need but the Army doesn't really need it. Again, think about the mission sets. Expidtionary vs Fixed ops.