February R44 Incident Report

[aeroscout]

I think it is the norm at quite a few places. Those same places hot swap pilots and pee behind the fuel tanks while the helicopter is getting hot fueled. A low time guy may have to do that if they can only find a job at one of those places.

It's no trouble at all to hot fuel a turbine.

A piston is problematic.

[turbo]

Pilots are still inventing new ways to crash. Get distracted and viola, another way to get hurt. Nice job getn it on the ground. I take off the gas caps, and I put on the gas caps. Walk around too.

[Jaybee]

I've flown a few thousand tours in an R44 and never once did a hot re-fueling.......doesn't seem to be the norm in the tour biz...plus, you have to take a water bottle/pee break every two hours (they would make it 4 if they could).....so the timing works out to take a 5 minute break..which is all it takes to refuel.

 

two hours of fuel ? flying tours?

 

i don't doubt you are speaking the truth, a little jealous even as I spent the last two summers with minimum fuel at max gross weight. Every season started the same also, people only carrying minimum weight and maximum fuel. What happens ? we get some fat customers, so the lightest pilot(140lbs) gets to haul it. Fat customers keep on coming in, the "heavy"(170lbs) pilots get tired of sitting around on their butts doing nothing and start carrying minimum fuel. Thats just way it is. No one wants to work somewhere where they can only take every 5th load of passengers. Shoot if someone did that it would take them like 6 seasons to reach 1000 hours.

 

another example - boss asks us all in the daily safety meeting. Do ya'll want to work 6 - 7 days a week or do you want me to hire another pilot ? So a lot of us worked 16 days in a row a few times, 12 hours days at that - one worked 32 days straight one time. I can hear some people crying foul, but they do it in the Gulf all the time (14 hour days no less).

 

While teaching and preaching safety is the right thing to do, it rarely happens in the real world. Yea, yea, yea its up to me to make a stand - see above example about "heavy" pilots sitting around on their butts all day. That only goes as far as someone watching their dreams fade away while seeing other achieve theirs in spades.

[WolftalonID]

Who is it you work for? I am currious to know so I dont inadvertantly apply. Blatant claims of safty disregard and duty limit violations, in my book, and I am sure many others, is not something this industry needs. Its not really cool to display the macho bad ass attitude. This isnt how you get ahead in the industry, its how one gets themselves fired, at best, or dead along with whom they are flying.

 

Every flight you do is important. You dont need to ask yourself if your going to die, as a pilot you already made peace with yourself. You should be asking yourself,"If I do this, CAN my passengers, ground crew, people below me die?"

 

If your answer is, well for some pilots maybe , but I know what I am doing here....then your acting really stupid. The FAA isnt conserned about what your boss says, how bad ass you think you are or are not, they care about FAR 91.3

 

We as pilots set the standard from which safty is mandated...not our bosses, passengers, or wallets.

[iChris]

I think it is the norm at quite a few places. Those same places hot swap pilots and pee behind the fuel tanks while the helicopter is getting hot fueled. A low time guy may have to do that if they can only find a job at one of those places.

 

Hot refueling is used, and will continue to be used, extensively in the utility world. It’s even still the norm with the piston ships in the Ag sector. However, when you’re talking about any piston engine, and aviation gasoline, you should be aware of the additional risks.

 

At a minimum, protection should be flame resistant clothing, or all cotton or wool clothing, long-sleeve shirts with sleeves down, long-legged trousers, and cotton or wool undergarments, leather or petroleum resistant gloves, hearing, and eye protection.

 

Under NFPA rules only turbine engine helicopters fueled with aviation turbine fuels shall be permitted to receive fuel while an engine is operating. All sources of ignition must be located above the fuel inlet ports, vents or tank openings. Ignition sources include engines, exhausts, APUs and combustion-type cabin heater exhausts.

 

The UPAC Safety Guide for Helicopter Operators also has procedures for rapid refueling in chapter 9.

 

If you look at the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for TURBINE FUEL and AVIATION GASOLINE you’ll see why:

 

TURBINE FUEL

Flashpoint: (+100 °F) (Min)

Auto ignition: (410 °F)

 

EMERGENCY OVERVIEW

 

- COMBUSTIBLE LIQUID AND VAPOR

- HARMFUL OR FATAL IF SWALLOWED

- MAY CAUSE RESPIRATORY TRACT IRRITATION IF INHALED

- CAUSES SKIN IRRITATION

- POSSIBLE CANCER HAZARD - MAY CAUSE CANCER BASED ON ANIMAL DATA

- TOXIC TO AQUATIC ORGANISMS

 

AVIATION GASOLINE

Flashpoint: (-51 °F) (Min)

Auto ignition: (824 °F)

 

EMERGENCY OVERVIEW

 

- EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. VAPOR MAY CAUSE FLASH FIRE

- HARMFUL OR FATAL IF SWALLOWED

- CAUSES EYE AND SKIN IRRITATION

- MAY CAUSE RESPIRATORY TRACT IRRITATION IF INHALED

- VAPOR HARMFUL

Edited January 5, 2014 by iChris

[pilot#476398]

 

Hot refueling is used, and will continue to be used, extensively in the utility world. It’s even still the norm with the piston ships in the Ag sector. However, when you’re talking about any piston engine, and aviation gasoline, you should be aware of the additional risks.

 

At a minimum, protection should be flame resistant clothing, or all cotton or wool clothing, long-sleeve shirts with sleeves down, long-legged trousers, and cotton or wool undergarments, leather or petroleum resistant gloves, hearing, and eye protection.

 

 

 

The job I didn't get last year flying tours in a 44 hot fueling was the norm and the mandetory uniform was shorts and a short sleeved pilot shirt!

 

They flew with only half tanks (lots of fat tourists), so they were refueling quite often.

 

Not sure if I'll apply again this year?

Edited January 5, 2014 by pilot#476398

[Nearly Retired]

Regarding "tour" operations...

 

Helicopters sitting on the ground do not make money. Helicopters carrying less than a full passenger load do not make money. In Tours, you make money by keeping the ships running and keeping them full of paying pax. (I've even seen operators leave helicopters unmanned and running at idle during slack times. As long as the helicopter is in a fenced, controlled area I don't see a problem with this.)

 

Helicopter rides that are not conducted under FAR part 135 are not subject to duty time limitations.

 

I've never done tours/rides in piston-engine helicopters. But I have done them in 206's in NYC back in the day. We were using "straight" 206L's, the LongRanger with the JetRanger engine before Allison invented the C-28/C-30. Luckily we had water/alcohol injection in the summertime.

 

To carry seven people in a straight-L, you need to keep the fuel low (or fly overgross, and I know some pilots who did that). Our most popular tours were the 10-minute and 15-minute rides. Sometimes we'd fuel every third or fourth trip. When it was busy, we only shut down when we had to pee so bad we couldn't stand it. It's the nature of the business. When there's a line of people out the door waiting to ride (and there might not be a similar line tomorrow), you fly your butt off and don't complain. If you don't like that kind of work, maybe you shouldn't take that kind of job.

 

When I was a 16 year-old lineboy there was a Bell 47 radio traffic helicopter based at the heliport I worked at. The pilot would stop halfway back through his 2.0 hour afternoon shift to take a short pee-break. He'd shut down, but I'd have him fueled and he'd often be climbing back in before the rotor stopped. Sometimes I'd hear the avgas sizzling as it spilled onto the hot exhaust stacks. And I used to wonder what the difference would be between fueling a just-shut-down helicopter and one that was still running? I'd bet not much. Would I hot-fuel a 47? Sure, ag operators do it all the time. You just have to be careful.

 

It's easy to sit back and say, "Well *I* will never take a job in which you have to hot-fuel," or that you'll never do this or that. Which is fine. It's good to have principles. And it's never good to do something unsafe just because "that's the way we've always been doing it." But flying is risky - we all understand that, right? So for us pilots, we have to walk that line...we have to decide what's really safe or unsafe. Some pilots would not be comfortable at one of those busy "helicopter ride" operations. Others enjoy it.

 

Oh, and by the way Jaybee, pilots in the GOM only work either seven or fourteen days straight. "Tours" longer than that usually involve overseas work, and they usually give you about the same amount of time off as you spend "on." Having said that, when you're a signle, itinerant pilot doing a seasonal job in a place that's not your home, who cares how many days you're on-duty? There's always going to be rain-days, or slack days, or days when the ship is down for maintenance or whatever...

[iChris]

The job I didn't get last year flying tours in a 44 hot fueling was the norm and the mandetory uniform was shorts and a short sleeved pilot shirt!

 

 

 

Sometimes I'd hear the avgas sizzling as it spilled onto the hot exhaust stacks. And I used to wonder what the difference would be between fueling a just-shut-down helicopter and one that was still running? I'd bet not much. Would I hot-fuel a 47? Sure, ag operators do it all the time. You just have to be careful.

 

 

Just be aware of the additional risks and take the necessary precautions.

 

If you look at the numbers the low flashpoint is the real issue and that’s still an issue just after shutdown. As a result of the high (824°F) auto-ignition temp, in most cases, you’ll only get the sizzle Nearly Retired wrote about when 100LL hits an engine or exhaust that’s around 570°F. So are you home free just by shutting down?

 

“WARNING: Because AVGAS has a flash point of about -50° F, sufficient vapors are liberated to produce a flammable vapor-air mixture under almost all conceivable atmospheric conditions. All that is needed to cause a fire or explosion is a source of ignition.” - Interagency Helicopter Operations Guide IHOG

 

AVIATION GASOLINE 100LL

Flashpoint: (-51 °F) (Min)

Auto ignition: (824 °F)

 

Aviation Gasoline, 100 LL MSDS

Edited January 6, 2014 by iChris

[Jaybee]

Who is it you work for? I am currious to know so I dont inadvertantly apply. Blatant claims of safty disregard and duty limit violations, in my book, and I am sure many others, is not something this industry needs. Its not really cool to display the macho bad ass attitude. This isnt how you get ahead in the industry, its how one gets themselves fired, at best, or dead along with whom they are flying.

 

Every flight you do is important. You dont need to ask yourself if your going to die, as a pilot you already made peace with yourself. You should be asking yourself,"If I do this, CAN my passengers, ground crew, people below me die?"

 

If your answer is, well for some pilots maybe , but I know what I am doing here....then your acting really stupid. The FAA isnt conserned about what your boss says, how bad ass you think you are or are not, they care about FAR 91.3

 

We as pilots set the standard from which safty is mandated...not our bosses, passengers, or wallets.

 

duty limit violations in Part 91 ? this is new to me please elaborate.

 

nice way to make assumptions. im as far from "badass" as it can get, but ill give you that one though since you only know me through the printed word on this site. same goes for you thinking I don't conduct flights as safely as possible. minimum fuel is not only legal but perfectly safe, just not ideal. im only telling you how it is out there.

 

you'll never get an argument from me about how it "should" be done, good luck is all i can say. i think you'll find the majority of reality to differ quite a bit from ideal.

 

as an aside, ive been a Unit Safety Rep for the Air Force for many years, or in other words I've had more safety training than I could ever hope to have. One thing I've learned is safety is a relative word. For example, part of our special operations package is Explosive Demolitions. It don't take a rocket surgeon to tell you that Explosives are dangerous. Working with explosives has inherent risks and you take appropriate measures to mitigate that risk. ORM is a six step process. At the end of the day, you have to accept a certain level of risk or don't be on the Explosive Demolitions team. Should piston aircraft never be hot fueled ? Ideally, no. Is it illegal ? No. Do a majority of operators do it? Yes. So the choice is yours, identify and mitigate the risk the best you can and live with it or don't. Hopefully, you get lucky enough to score a job like Goldy had, and aren't forced to make such a decision - I believe jobs like that are in the minority unfortunately.

 

If you continue to make assumptions then please cast your aspersions elsewhere. After you've spent some time in this industry please come back and tell us what you found. Good luck with changing the world, sincerely.

[Jaybee]

NR - two week hitch plus some workover at least that is a possible reality told to me by who taught me and I think you know who that is heck for that matter I know one time they had to let one of their pilots go and the one dude worked like 4 weeks straight over there in Weeziana.

[Mikemv]

Jaybee,

 

You stated "Should piston aircraft never be hot fueled ? Ideally, no. Is it illegal ? No. Do a majority of operators do it? Yes."

 

Can you validate this with actual facts?

 

You know of all the piston helicopter operators?

 

Most of them hot fuel?

 

I do not know of any piston helicopter operators that hot fuel. Should I say "that most of them do not"?

 

Industry Best Practices should always be applied but that to is not possible.

[Jaybee]

Okay, the majority of places that I know of via personal experience or word of mouth from friends in the industry based on their personal experience, hot fuel. I don't know if that is statistical enough for you. Also, there were two other witnesses on this thread alone of hot-fueling tour operators.

 

"Should I say "that most of them do not"? - If that is your personal experience, than it would not be untrue would it? If you have a point sir, than please state it - because it sounds like you are trying to ask a loaded question to me, or trying to paint me into some kind of logical fallacy corner. Is there a legal definition of statistic that I am not upholding ?

 

Sorry, but I am not going to publicly out the place that gave me a break in this business. The owner is a super nice guy who is safety conscious. A lot of these old school guys that I have met have grown up in this business hot fueling their whole lives. To them hot fueling is safe. As I said, safety is a relative word based on the eyes of the beholder. In the example above, Explosive Demolitions is about the most unsafe thing you can do, yet we have Airman lined up around the block for a chance to be on the Demo Team. *shrug* Ironically, and sad to say, I think you'll find a similar line of out of work pilots outside the doors of hot-fueling tour operators. Eye of the beholder thing.

 

Again, to be clear - I am not advocating hot fueling, just stating my experience.

[pilot#476398]

 

 

I do not know of any piston helicopter operators that hot fuel. Should I say "that most of them do not"?

 

 

 

Helicopter Adventures in Myrtle Beach. They both hot fuel an hot load R44s. If I recall they have four of them and get quite busy during the summer. They also have quite a few wires and a tower a little too close for comfort if you ask me (and the instructor who took me up).

 

If you're ever up there check them out, I for one would be curious as to your opinion of the operation?

[iChris]

Helicopter Adventures in Myrtle Beach. They both hot fuel an hot load R44s. If I recall they have four of them and get quite busy during the summer.

 

 

The one reason we have very few incidents when hot fueling the R44 is the cowlings are well placed and even with the low flashpoint, we must remember the vapor to air ratio must fall within a small specific range to start a fire (100LL 6.1%). So again, just be aware of the additional risks and take the necessary precautions.

 

Petroleum vapor and air form a range of mixtures that are flammable, and possibly explosive. This range is called the mixture’s "flammability limit," "explosive range," or "explosive limit."

 

A mixture in the explosive range ignites when it contacts a spark, flame, or other ignition source. In open spaces, this can cause an intense fire.

 

In the case of 100LL, any mixture above 7.6 percent by volume of fuel vapor does not ignite because it is too "rich." This is known as the mixture’s upper explosive limit.

 

A mixture less than 1.5 percent by volume of fuel vapor does not ignite because it is too "lean." This is known as the mixture’s lower explosive limit.

 

100LL - LEL (vol % in air): 1.5

 

100LL - UEL (vol % in air): 7.6

 

Aviation Gasoline, 100 LL MSDS (Page 5)

Edited January 6, 2014 by iChris

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

It is my understanding that only an open flame or a spark will ignite AvGas.

 

The auto-ignition temperature of AvGas is around 500°F.

 

In the R44 Raven I and II, w/ an OAT of 70-80°, under max continuous power, I have not yet seen the CHT gauge read above 400°F. On the ground, at 70% RPM, the CHT is normally around 340°F.

 

Unless I'm missing something, any AvGas that happens to splash onto the engine or exhaust will not ignite as those surfaces are well below the auto-ignition temperature.

 

So the next thing to consider is the very low flash point of AvGas, which is around -55°F. Whenever you are fueling AvGas, there will be vapor fumes. Those fumes are highly flammable, if the ignition temperature is reached. But, none of the surfaces of the aircraft (atleast an R44) should be anywhere near 500°F.

 

So the only thing I can see igniting the vapors is an open flame or a spark (static discharge). Those are the only heat sources above the auto-ignition temperature. This is why you must ALWAYS use a static line when fueling (hot or cold).

 

Here's a link to some AvGas specs from a manufacturer in Canada:

http://www.online.petro-canada.ca/datasheets/en_CA/w118.pdf

 

If I am looking at this incorrectly, please correct me. As it stands right now, I don't see hot-fueling AvGas as dangerous (As long as the proper precautions are taken).

 

[Mikemv]

Okay, the majority of places that I know of via personal experience or word of mouth from friends in the industry based on their personal experience, hot fuel. I don't know if that is statistical enough for you. Also, there were two other witnesses on this thread alone of hot-fueling tour operators.

 

"Should I say "that most of them do not"? - If that is your personal experience, than it would not be untrue would it? If you have a point sir, than please state it - because it sounds like you are trying to ask a loaded question to me, or trying to paint me into some kind of logical fallacy corner. Is there a legal definition of statistic that I am not upholding ?

 

Sorry, but I am not going to publicly out the place that gave me a break in this business. The owner is a super nice guy who is safety conscious. A lot of these old school guys that I have met have grown up in this business hot fueling their whole lives. To them hot fueling is safe. As I said, safety is a relative word based on the eyes of the beholder. In the example above, Explosive Demolitions is about the most unsafe thing you can do, yet we have Airman lined up around the block for a chance to be on the Demo Team. *shrug* Ironically, and sad to say, I think you'll find a similar line of out of work pilots outside the doors of hot-fueling tour operators. Eye of the beholder thing.

 

Again, to be clear - I am not advocating hot fueling, just stating my experience.

Jaybee,

 

My point was to make it clear to all readers that not every operator or even most operators hot load.

 

As a member of a few committees of USHST & IHST I am always looking out for industry attitudes that are not Industry Best Practices.

 

As you stated, safety and risk management are relative. No attack on you was intended. As a more experienced pilot posting here, some may think that it is an OK practice (any practice) when "most" operators do it as you stated.

 

From IHST accident data, I do not think there have been many flame ups vs. the amount of hot loads in pistons but who actually has those (hot load) numbers?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Mike

Edited January 7, 2014 by Mikemv

[WolftalonID]

Jaybe, my appologies on the comment. My assumption was based on observed safty management practices of some operators. I did not read the details of 117 until today well enough to recognize they dont HAVE to apply to part 91 ops.

I guess the operators that have implemented the duty limits have done so as a good practice, or maybe they also operate with other certs that mandate the need.

 

Yes saftey is a relative word...got me on that one. Each pilot is responsible for their own, and as a baby pilot, my head cone and leash is still rather short so to speak from those who have opened up their limits.

 

I do however hold myself to a standard that I look to in the company for which I would work for. I think any pilot should be willing to weigh the option to work against the compatibility of their level of safty and the companies. HEMS safty history attests to that very stance I come from.

 

It only takes a microsecond to have 100LL on fire, and when a person is in a few feet of the source...its not going to end pretty for them. I couldnt live with, allowing my passengers, ground crew, or my wife to handle me if I was affected, the burden of that reality over a few minutes of down time. Part of mitigating risk over reward.

Edited January 6, 2014 by WolftalonID

[pilot#476398]

 

The one reason we have very few incidents when hot fueling the R44 is the cowlings are well placed and even with the low flashpoint, we must remember the vapor to air ratio must fall within a small specific range to start a fire (100LL 6.1%). So again, just be aware of the additional risks and take the necessary precautions.

 

 

I'm glad its working out for you. If I get hired on this season I'll just put on my asbestos underwear, shoot the dice, and hope for the best!

[Jaybee]

Been a rough few days on a personal level, a dear family member passed recently. Sorry if I was a little cranky last we all met.

 

Anyhow, its easy to get lost in words on the internet. No facial expressions or body language to convey - hey you're pushing the limit, or you're just joking, or you just don't believe it !

 

No worries, here. I guess I took it for granted that my "viewpoint" of statistics would readily be understood. I only know of of like 5 places in all the USA that do piston engine tours and have 3+ ships and enough self loading baggage to hot fuel, and they do. Most places, 1 maybe 2 ships maybe 10 - 15 loads a day vs. 100's per day. AGAIN ! just my limited experience

 

I would prefer not to hot fuel, however I think I can think of more unsafe things to do. I didn't feel like making a stand was worth it, and call it as you see it but I got a family to feed and roof to keep over their heads.