Brand New CFIs?

[pilot#476398]

So what type of students do they usually give to new CFIs?

 

Do they wait until you have some experience teaching before giving you a pre-solo/zero hour newbie, or do they just throw anyone who walks through the door at you?

[rotormandan]

You get the new students and intro flights. All the other students have instructors. You gotta build you're student base. Though you might inherit some from the instructor you replace.

[troll.detector]

Technically, as a cfii you can teach private, instrument, commercial cfii, bfr and ipc (cfi requires more experience). I'd suggest cfii student being easy first student- low risk and you are fresh on the subject area, but reality is, depending on your flight school and student load, any of the above. I've heard of first students being a bfr with more hours than the instructor along with zero hours students, commercial, the lot.

 

You have a preference/fear?

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

When I first started instructing, the school I worked for had me flying introductory flights exclusively for the first 6 months or so. It was a great way to familiarize myself with the local airspace/procedures, build confidence/airmanship skills and to continue learning from more experienced instructors.

 

After the initial break-in period, I was assigned a couple of more advanced students (private add-ons, commercial students, etc). About a year after being hired I started training initial student pilots and inherited about 8 additional students from a more experienced CFI who moved on to fly tours.

 

I feel very fortunate to have progressed this way; the school was located near a very large city and we had a constant flow of 'bucket list' intro flights as well as people interested in pursuing a license.

 

Unfortunately, not all schools have the inflow of students to 'break in' new CFI's this way...

 

Regardless of who you are or where you trained, you will be in over your head as a new CFI. The unfortunate result is inadequate training for students and incidents/accidents stemming from inexperience on the instructor's part.

 

The best advice I can give to a new instructor is to seek advice in person from more experienced instructors. There are literally hundreds of tips-and-tricks, 'there I was moments', and epiphanies that can be passed forward to keep you safe and give your students the best training possible.

 

[DieselBoy]

The schools I've dealt with start a new CFII with an Instrument or Comm student and intro flights. IMO putting a new CFI with a new zero time student is not the safest decision.

Edited December 19, 2013 by DieselBoy

[Spike]

So what type of students do they usually give to new CFIs?

 

Do they wait until you have some experience teaching before giving you a pre-solo/zero hour newbie, or do they just throw anyone who walks through the door at you?

 

 

Once you’ve satisfied and met the requirements for CFI certification, passed the ride and got hired, you are a Flight Instructor, -period. Not a “kind-of” or “sort of” but in fact the complete real deal. With that said, you should be expected to handle any student (short of a Super-CFI requirement) with any level of experience, including zero experience, and provide the required level of service. If not, then you shouldn’t have been hired or possibly even been granted the privilege by passing the ride…..

 

Imagine this. You are a newly hired CFI working for McLovin Helicopters. A customer comes in to take a look at the school and being you’re the new guy, are the one that shows him around. He leaves. About a week later, the boss takes you aside and tells you, the customer who came in last week has requested you to be his flight instructor. Furthermore, this customer has his own B206 and is going to contract with the school to provide you to be the instructor. You are going to be given 5 hours of dual by another qualified instructor and then expected to provide ab-initio instruction to the owner, in the 206. In this scenario, what kind of value would you have if you said you weren’t ready?

 

If you don’t have the confidence, then at least, you should be able to fake it……

Edited December 19, 2013 by Spike

[pilot#476398]

 

 

Once you’ve satisfied and met the requirements for CFI certification, passed the ride and got hired, you are a Flight Instructor, -period. Not a “kind-of” or “sort of” but in fact the complete real deal. With that said, you should be expected to handle any student (short of a Super-CFI requirement) with any level of experience, including zero experience, and provide the required level of service. If not, then you shouldn’t have been hired or possibly even been granted the privilege by passing the ride…..

 

 

 

Its too bad no one has the same opinion of a 150 hour newly certified commercial pilot.

[Jaybee]

 

Its too bad no one has the same opinion of a 150 hour newly certified commercial pilot.

 

Its not true that "no one" does.

 

I have one friend that started giving tours with wet comm and no cfi.

I have another that was hired as a ground crew bitch for guys flying frost, guy above him was a fruit cake and bugged out - he was flying an Astar with 200 hours.

I have another friend that started as a ground crew bitch and 200 hours, by the end of the season he was giving tours.

Lastly I have another friend that I know that started flying powerline contracts with a wet ink comm and no cfi.

 

In all cases, the guy was willing to show up early, stay late, wash aircraft, fuel aircraft, sweep hangars, etc etc. If you put in the hard work for an operator unless they are just dirtbags they will reward you.

[Spike]

 

Its too bad no one has the same opinion of a 150 hour newly certified commercial pilot.

 

The topic is regarding new CFI’s and not “new” commercial pilots. That topic is a different animal…..

Edited December 19, 2013 by Spike

[Mikemv]

 

 

Once you’ve satisfied and met the requirements for CFI certification, passed the ride and got hired, you are a Flight Instructor, -period. Not a “kind-of” or “sort of” but in fact the complete real deal. With that said, you should be expected to handle any student (short of a Super-CFI requirement) with any level of experience, including zero experience, and provide the required level of service. If not, then you shouldn’t have been hired or possibly even been granted the privilege by passing the ride…..

 

Imagine this. You are a newly hired CFI working for McLovin Helicopters. A customer comes in to take a look at the school and being you’re the new guy, are the one that shows him around. He leaves. About a week later, the boss takes you aside and tells you, the customer who came in last week has requested you to be his flight instructor. Furthermore, this customer has his own B206 and is going to contract with the school to provide you to be the instructor. You are going to be given 5 hours of dual by another qualified instructor and then expected to provide ab-initio instruction to the owner, in the 206. In this scenario, what kind of value would you have if you said you weren’t ready?

 

If you don’t have the confidence, then at least, you should be able to fake it……

 

What flight school is going to actually let this happen?

 

What insurance company is going to insure this situation?

 

Not good ADM. It would actually be a good thing for the new CFI to realize this is not safe and face up to it.

 

It is things like this that the USHST is addressing with proposed changes to CFI applicant training requirements.

 

Mike

[pilot#476398]

 

Its not true that "no one" does.

 

I have one friend that started giving tours with wet comm and no cfi.

I have another that was hired as a ground crew bitch for guys flying frost, guy above him was a fruit cake and bugged out - he was flying an Astar with 200 hours.

I have another friend that started as a ground crew bitch and 200 hours, by the end of the season he was giving tours.

Lastly I have another friend that I know that started flying powerline contracts with a wet ink comm and no cfi.

 

In all cases, the guy was willing to show up early, stay late, wash aircraft, fuel aircraft, sweep hangars, etc etc. If you put in the hard work for an operator unless they are just dirtbags they will reward you.

 

Sounds like you have a lot of friends who have won the lottery!

[Spike]

 

What flight school is going to actually let this happen?

 

What insurance company is going to insure this situation?

 

Not good ADM. It would actually be a good thing for the new CFI to realize this is not safe and face up to it.

 

It is things like this that the USHST is addressing with proposed changes to CFI applicant training requirements.

 

Mike

 

Easy Mike, it’s a hypothetical……

 

Currently, I’m not in-tune with today’s flight schools so I can’t say what school would allow this to happen. However, in years past, it wasn’t seen as so unrealistic or “bad ADM” as you say. Furthermore, by insinuating the decision is “not safe” is an assumption based on the fact you personally do not know the (hypothetical) student or instructor. Therefore, just because the price of the hypothetical ab-initio machine to be used is greater than an R22 has no bearing on safety and is irrelevant. As far as the “insurance” is concerned, again, it’s a hypothetical…..

 

If this hypothetical is what your team is attempting to address, then maybe the team should reevaluate the big picture…..

 

Give me a bag of cash, a couple machines and in 10 months I’ll give you a bunch of CFI’s who could handle it, -safely…..

Edited December 20, 2013 by Spike

[Mikemv]

 

Easy Mike, it’s a hypothetical……

 

Currently, I’m not in-tune with today’s flight schools so I can’t say what school would allow this to happen. However, in years past, it wasn’t seen as so unrealistic or “bad ADM” as you say. Furthermore, by insinuating the decision is “not safe” is an assumption based on the fact you personally do not know the (hypothetical) student or instructor. Therefore, just because the price of the hypothetical ab-initio machine to be used is greater than an R22 has no bearing on safety and is irrelevant. As far as the “insurance” is concerned, again, it’s a hypothetical…..

 

If this hypothetical is what your team is attempting to address, then maybe the team should reevaluate the big picture…..

 

Give me a bag of cash, a couple machines and in 10 months I’ll give you a bunch of CFI’s who could handle it, -safely…..

 

Spike,

 

I worry about someone reading your first post ( as your posts are respected by me and others) and thinking they should go for it. You did say this was about new CFIs that just passed a practical test.

 

USHST does not address hypos but rather compilations of facts from actual accident situations where a large percentage are in the training environment.

 

The machine used is not about cost but rather complexity. Do we really think that a "new" CFI with 5 hours in a B206 is ready to teach all PTS+ requirements in that airframe? I stand by my statement that this is poor ADM by anyone to decide to do this.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Mikemv

[Jaybee]

 

Sounds like you have a lot of friends who have won the lottery!

 

Well friend as the saying goes, if you want to win you have to play - or in this case you got to fuel, mop, sweep,,,,, whatever it takes to get to where you want to be.

 

About the other thing, I did my three hours of night for my Private in a Long Ranger - it was a metric sh*t ton easier to fly than the Bell 47 :shrug:

[DanceswithCyclic]

As a sub-300 hr CFI, I did not instruct any autorotations. Student pilots I flew with were able to hover, land and take-off. Their normal instructor was usually unavailable at that time. My usual LP was a Private or Comm-rated needing dual time. I did have 2 Intro flights and one day I and another more experienced CFI alternated up and downs at a local county fair.

 

Going way back to my student days, I learned from multi-thousand hour commercial pilots who still had or just received CFI.

 

Kevin M

[Spike]

 

Spike,

 

I worry about someone reading your first post ( as your posts are respected by me and others) and thinking they should go for it. You did say this was about new CFIs that just passed a practical test.

 

USHST does not address hypos but rather compilations of facts from actual accident situations where a large percentage are in the training environment.

 

The machine used is not about cost but rather complexity. Do we really think that a "new" CFI with 5 hours in a B206 is ready to teach all PTS+ requirements in that airframe? I stand by my statement that this is poor ADM by anyone to decide to do this.

 

The reality is, no new CFI is going to get this chance albeit my point was, IF he did, he should be ready for it. In the end, an H-CFI certificate is a CFI certificate which allows any instructor, regardless of experience, teach in any airframe. Simply put, there is no limitation (short of a requirement for a type rating) on make or model of machine to be flown for an ab-initio instructional flight. Plus, the 61.195(f) 5 hour requirement pretty much points out this isn’t brain surgery. Additionally, one could argue, a B206 is far from a complex machine. Truthfully, the most complex/difficult helicopter I’ve ever flown was a R22 instrument trainer. Geez-Louise, a partial panel NDB approach at night tasked me to the max…. On the other hand, teaching in a 206 is not tasking at all. IMHO, it’s rather relaxing….

 

Again, for any respectable flight school, any newly hired CFI should be able to take on any primary student. And for the record, my first two students were from overseas and had marginal command of the English language and the only limitation set upon me was no full-downs…..

 

Raise the bar with actionable performance standards.....

Edited December 20, 2013 by Spike

[nightsta1ker]

Dive in with both feet and just teach. Keep in mind that this is where the learning process really starts for you. Don't be fooled by or complacent with someone who has more time than you do. I have had 2000 hour pilots try and kill me. High time, low time, it doesn't matter. If you relax, it will bite you. Be careful out there and be professional. As long as you are professional and competent, the rest will fall into place.

[troll.detector]

I stand by my statement that this is poor ADM by anyone to decide to do this.

I agree, and to think otherwise reminds me of the macho hazardous attitude.

[aeroscout]

Be relaxed but be spring loaded to pounce if necessary.

Part of instructing is developing the ability to predict the student's next false move and be in position to block it.

If you will listen well as you go along you will pick up tips that will keep you from learning the hard way.

Example...Hovering auto...

Lock hand over collective to prevent student from snatching in too much pitch too quickly. I say lock because you may be met with more force than you can overpower.

[pilot#476398]

Damn, this one got off topic pretty quick,...allbiet I am partially to blame!

[aussiecop]

My first instructor was a newly minted CFI and after 3 lessons I asked to have another instructor as I was constantly fighting him on the controls, there was always too much resistance and I'd look over and he'd still be fully controlling the helicopter with a terrified look on his face. He was replaced by a 10,000+ CFI that I was lucky to learn from and he barely ever touched the controls. Same kid (he was 10 years my junior) ran out of fuel (always dip your tanks in an Enstrom!) on a maintenance flight with the 10,000 hour pilot in the right seat as a passenger, froze up and the 10K pilot saved their lives and did more injury to himself than the kid who froze up.

[helipilotm]

 

The reality is, no new CFI is going to get this chance albeit my point was, IF he did, he should be ready for it. In the end, an H-CFI certificate is a CFI certificate which allows any instructor, regardless of experience, teach in any airframe. Simply put, there is no limitation (short of a requirement for a type rating) on make or model of machine to be flown for an ab-initio instructional flight. Plus, the 61.195(f) 5 hour requirement pretty much points out this isnt brain surgery. Additionally, one could argue, a B206 is far from a complex machine. Truthfully, the most complex/difficult helicopter Ive ever flown was a R22 instrument trainer. Geez-Louise, a partial panel NDB approach at night tasked me to the max. On the other hand, teaching in a 206 is not tasking at all. IMHO, its rather relaxing.

 

Again, for any respectable flight school, any newly hired CFI should be able to take on any primary student. And for the record, my first two students were from overseas and had marginal command of the English language and the only limitation set upon me was no full-downs..

 

Raise the bar with actionable performance standards.....

I agree 100% with you spike! My first two students had just soloed. I flew with them for a few weeks then got two brand new students. I learned a lot in the first few flights with them. I have had more higher time students try to kill me then 0 hour students. Also teaching in 206's would be waaay better than a 22 actually it is. Just last week I flew a long ranger to the south east tfor our burn contract. I had a friend go with me and he flew more than half the time. By the time we got to Mississippi he could shoot a nice approach and set it down with a little help. His pick ups were a little shaky but we didn't work on them.