Army Helicopter Pilot, R22/44 Piston Transition (LOL) w/ Post-9/11 GI Bill

[zVo]

Hey everyone,

 

I am a UH-60 warrant officer with the Army and have been unable to find an answer to my question, so maybe some fellow military aviators or civilian CFIs can point me in the right direction.

 

Is there a VA approved course that would allow me to receive the minimum hours to be allowed to instruct in an R22 or R44? 200 hours in a helicopter is an easy check-the-block, but 50 hours in Robinson helicopters is not. I was planning on using my Post 9/11 GI Bill to get my CFI/CFII this year, but obviously the hours provided in the block of instruction would be short of the time required to teach. There is a local flight school that is willing to take me on to instruct on the side when I'm off duty, but I need to obviously meet the Robinson minimums.

 

I realize there's probably nothing out there that matches the profile of what I'm seeking, but maybe some of you have experience in doing what I'm trying to accomplish and would be willing to share.

 

Thanks!

Z

[Flying Pig]

Between CFI and II you could probably be at about 20-25hrs? Is there a way you can make sure you are just really really really ready for your check ride? What about if you tack on one of those long line or mountain courses everyone is doing in AStars and 500s and just do yours in the 22?

[pilot#476398]

If they really like you, maybe you could convince them to hire you on to do photo and one person tour flights in the 22 until you build up that SFAR 50?

[Jaybee]

Part 141 Flight Instructor = 25 flight hours, Part 141 Instrument Flight Instructor = 15 flight hours.

 

25 + 15 = 40 hours paid for by GI Bill.

 

That leaves 10 hours for you to pay for. 10 hours times R22 rental = small drop in a huge bucket compared to what others have spent.

 

Also, that's only if you hit the minimums. Plus, if the school wants you to teach then investing 10 hours in you should be a no brainer. The tour company I worked for gave me 10 hours of 44 time.

[pilot#476398]

Part 141 Flight Instructor = 25 flight hours, Part 141 Instrument Flight Instructor = 15 flight hours.

 

25 + 15 = 40 hours paid for by GI Bill.

 

That leaves 10 hours for you to pay for. 10 hours times R22 rental = small drop in a huge bucket compared to what others have spent.

 

 

Since SFAR 73 requires 10 hours in the 22 to be PIC, could the school just call those left over 10 an "R22 transition", and thus have the GI Bill pay for the whole 50?

[Flying Pig]

So after he has 40hrs and takes a CFI and CFII checkride in a 22, you want him to pencil whip a 10 hour "R22 transition?" After the fact?

 

Might want to rethink that one.

[pilot#476398]

Err,...uh',...no...

 

The 10 hour R22 transition would come first, then he would do the instructor courses. Sorry, I figured that would be implied?

[Flying Pig]

Using the words "left over" didn't imply that it would come first.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Flying Pig

[Jaybee]

A good point was brought up however, been too long since I went through my 141 Gi Bill thing, is the checkride part of the 25/15 hour syllabus ? If no then now you are only 7 - 8 hours short of what you need...

 

no offense intended but you're knocking down WO pay (I totally get trying to use your
GI Bill and I'm not knocking you for trying) then if the only thing between you and a side job is a few bucks !?! (assuming you are trying to build some Robbie time to transition to civilian in the near future) then the hours are more important than the money IMHO

[Spike]

Pilots who’ve never flown a R22 and are proficient enough to take the ride(s) at minimums would be considered in the minority.

[Flying Pig]

I did it in 10.1hrs

[pilot#476398]

Using the words "left over" didn't imply that it would come first.

 

A "real" Robbie pilot would have gotten it.

[Flying Pig]

Wheeeew….. I'm glad I didn't get it!!!

[stace]

here are plenty of Army guys that have recently gone to flight schools and gotten their CFI - give a call to Mauna Loa in Hawaii. They have recently taught one Army pilot I know (he got his CFI in about 2 weeks) and they may be able to provide additional information for you.

[Whistler]

Hey everyone,

 

I am a UH-60 warrant officer with the Army and have been unable to find an answer to my question, so maybe some fellow military aviators or civilian CFIs can point me in the right direction.

 

Is there a VA approved course that would allow me to receive the minimum hours to be allowed to instruct in an R22 or R44? 200 hours in a helicopter is an easy check-the-block, but 50 hours in Robinson helicopters is not. I was planning on using my Post 9/11 GI Bill to get my CFI/CFII this year, but obviously the hours provided in the block of instruction would be short of the time required to teach. There is a local flight school that is willing to take me on to instruct on the side when I'm off duty, but I need to obviously meet the Robinson minimums.

 

I realize there's probably nothing out there that matches the profile of what I'm seeking, but maybe some of you have experience in doing what I'm trying to accomplish and would be willing to share.

 

Thanks!

Z

do you have your commercial rating? It is my understanding that most WOs only have a private rating. If not any post 9/11 GI bill school will allow you to take their commercial course, then CFI and CFII. we had an ex army aviator take our commercial and CFI courses.

[palmfish]

do you have your commercial rating? It is my understanding that most WOs only have a private rating. If not any post 9/11 GI bill school will allow you to take their commercial course, then CFI and CFII. we had an ex army aviator take our commercial and CFI courses.

Most Army aviators have their FAA Commercial & Instrument Rotorcraft ticket. All it takes is a written exam.

[UH60L-IP]

Pilots who've never flown an R22 and are proficient enough to take the ride(s) at minimums would be considered in the minority.

 

 

....said every R22 pilot that hasn't flown anything else (and sometimes those that have never flown an R22).

 

I get it, there is a reason for SFAR 73 to Part 61 but come on, anybody that has been a helicopter pilot for more than a couple of days can learn to fly an R22 in a few hours.

 

Back when I started flying (in the R22) I said the same thing. Then I started flying other helicopters and realized how dumb I must have sounded.

 

To the OP, I have no idea why you want to instruct in the R22 other than to build hours. Aside from that it will get you nothing. And I'm not knocking the R22 - I still fly one from time to time to take a friend up or something. As an already rated Army aviator, you would be much better off putting those GI funds towards college. Track IP if you want to be an IP - unless you just have to fly an R22.

[Spike]

Maybe I’m just odd, but from my experience, it was far easier to train an ab-initio student than to transition an experienced pilot into the R22. Especially, someone with heavy iron experience. Experienced pilots usually had to unlearn some things which bruised their egos and in the end, found the R22 quite humbling…. And sure, a competent pilot can get it in a few hours but the reality is, a few hours does not make a competent R22 pilot and thus the SFAR…..

 

Lastly, unless you’re an insider connected to the incidents which led to the SFAR being issued, the reason behind the SFAR is still up for debate…….

Edited February 4, 2014 by Spike

[Azhigher]

I did some flights with a UH-60 pilot in an R22. He picked up the basics pretty quick but to knock out 180's to commercial standards consistently took some real time. Not saying no one will be able to do it in the minimums but I can see where the idea comes from that going from flying heavier twins to one of the smallest helicopters is quite the leap.

[Agui27X]

I'm an Army Warrant too and have used Post 9-11 to pay for civilian flight schools. Assuming you got your Rotorcraft Commercial Instrument after Army flight school- The post 9-11 GI Bill will pay around 10,900 per academic year (Aug-Jul), check out the Gi Bill site for exact figures. OR they'll pay without caps if your flying is tied to a degree granting program at an IHL, but that's not what you're asking. SO...

 

...Here's the VA site where you can select "Flight" from the drop down then click on your preffered state. You should then see a list of approved schools, click on the one you want to check out, then click "Programs." There you'll see what programs are approved, you'll be looking for a school that has CFII or CFI and R44 (which most schools only have). You'll see a long list of options in California. If the link below doesnt work, google " WEAMS Gi Bill Find a school" ...Good luck!

 

http://inquiry.vba.va.gov/weamspub/buildSearchInstitutionCriteria.do

[highside7r]

Agree with UH60IP, let the Army pay for your CFI then find a turbine job instructing, grated not everyone can/should be an IP. Are you NG or active?

[rjl2001]

I am pretty sure you could find a program using the Post 9/11 GI Bill to work with you to accomplish what you're looking to do. Your best bet would be to call and speak with the right point-of-contact at the flight school and college, of whichever programs you're interested in. Look for the program chair or department chair at the college, and either the owner or VA liaison at the flight school. My experience has been that schools can be a little flexible from the standard course curriculum to accommodate students with different circumstances.

 

While I was in the program at Embry-Riddle in Prescott, there were three former Army CWO pilots starting out in the course also. It's been a while so I forget the specifics, but don't recall any issues with them getting the Robbie hours for the SFAR 73 CFI endorsement. There were however some disagreements I remember when they had to relearn some things differently than the "Army way." That flight school was Universal Helicopters or UHI, so at the least I would think they could give you some insight into how that would work.

[JohnLeePettimore]

Brand new to the forum, sir, but I might be able to help you out. I am about six months from my ETS. When I rejoin the civilian world, I am using my Post 9/11 GI Bill to go to Middle Georgia Colleges for thers aviation program. I would leave there with my CFII after 3 years. On top of that the BAH for the area is $1175 in a spot where you can rent a 4 bedroom for $450 a month. I don't know where you are, but there are other schools like that. That's just something to consider. It's also giving a degree in aviation.

[Hobbit64]

What about: CFI then CFII then ATP= 50 hours?

[nightsta1ker]

Is it just me,or is it a bad sign that I see guys and gals getting out of civilian flight school and joining the Army so they will have a flying job, while at the same time I see Army pilots trying to get checked out as instructors in Robinsons so they will have a flying job?