ftgokie Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I do not know the best way to go about getting my license to fly a helicopter. I have been reading where people say get your private lic in a cessna then add on the heli, go straight to heli and forget the fixed wing. I would honestly like to do this as cheap as I can do it. I have always wanted to fly airplanes and/or helicopters and this would just be a hobby for me. Maybe join the Civil Air Patrol to help out, but mainly for me to just enjoy flying. In your opinion, would you go just Heli or fixed wing and add on a heli....if that can even be done. You guys are the experts, I am just looking for some kind of direction to persue. At a local airport I can get a private lic in a cessna for $5200......at Tulsa County Helicopters to get my Heli license would be around $25,000 Opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbargs Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I do not know the best way to go about getting my license to fly a helicopter. I have been reading where people say get your private lic in a cessna then add on the heli, go straight to heli and forget the fixed wing. I would honestly like to do this as cheap as I can do it. I have always wanted to fly airplanes and/or helicopters and this would just be a hobby for me. Maybe join the Civil Air Patrol to help out, but mainly for me to just enjoy flying. In your opinion, would you go just Heli or fixed wing and add on a heli....if that can even be done. You guys are the experts, I am just looking for some kind of direction to persue. At a local airport I can get a private lic in a cessna for $5200......at Tulsa County Helicopters to get my Heli license would be around $25,000 Opinions?I don't know what they have you flying for a $25,000 private license, but most schools I have looked at are flying either an R22 or Schweizer 300, and at ~$300/hr, are quoting private licenses around $15,000. *edit* just saw you work for the VA, any chance you are prior military? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-aron Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Maybe see if CAP can pay for your fixed wing? IDK how long you have to be a member and what not to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avbug Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Civil Air Patrol will not pay for pilot certificates or ratings, and primary instruction can't be done in corporate aircraft (CAP aircraft). One can't get a private in a CAP airplane. The 5,200 quoted for the private was likely based on 40 hours, the minimum for completion under Part 61. In reality, the national average for private pilots is 60-80 hours, and the expense will be higher. While adding on a rating to an existing pilot certificate requires fewer minimum hours to accomplish the rating, you've got to be proficient and capable and safe; that is seldom accomplished at the minimum number of hours. With that in mind, you're likely to spend more money going for fixed wing and adding rotor, if just trying to accomplish the private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) You're the guy who weighs 265 lbs right? That means the 22 is out! Honestly, if I were you wanting to fly just for a hobby and wanting to fly "airplanes and/or helicopters", I'd get my private in a Cessna, then do the helicopter add-on later in whatever helicopter I could either rent or buy. You may also want to consider a Sport Pilot license in an airplane, if all you really want to do is just fly? Edited December 4, 2015 by eagle5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftgokie Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I don't know what they have you flying for a $25,000 private license, but most schools I have looked at are flying either an R22 or Schweizer 300, and at ~$300/hr, are quoting private licenses around $15,000. *edit* just saw you work for the VA, any chance you are prior military?That was just an average quote Tulsa County Helicopters quoted me at.. I believe they train in Robinson 44...this is what they quoted me. Now I do realize it will probably be a little higher if I need more than 45hrs. Average Pilot Dual Instruction 45 Hours $20,925 10 Hours Solo $4,650 Ground School/Books $1,350 Total* $26,925 And yes, I was in the Army Infantry for 15yrs before I got out. been at the VA for 8yrs now working in the Education Dept here in Muskogee. Got out in 2000 but used all my benefits when I was in the Army Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftgokie Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 You're the guy who weighs 265 lbs right? That means the 22 is out! Honestly, if I were you wanting to fly just for a hobby and wanting to fly "airplanes and/or helicopters", I'd get my private in a Cessna, then do the helicopter add-on later in whatever helicopter I could either rent or buy. You may also want to consider a Sport Pilot license in an airplane, if all you really want to do is just fly? lol....that would be me....I can retire from the VA at any time now with 20yrs of Govt service including all my military time. Heck, I would even consider flying for a company showing people christmas lights or just taking them up to see the sights. My options are wide open....I just want to fly...dont care how I do it, dont care if I get paid or not, I just want to fly. Would be nice though to retire from the VA and go to flying and getting paid too....but, I realize that market is extremely hard to get into, so I dont have my hopes up on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian47 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm sure that many would disagree with me but I would get a fixed wing license first. Of course not all of it transfers over but radio work, airspace, navigation etc. certainly does. I had just over 1,000 hours fixed wing when I started my helicopter conversion. It was somewhat overwelming at first. I remember thinking how much harder it would be while figuring out the radio and all the other aviation things I already knew. I was also glad I learned that stuff while paying much less expensive airplane rental rates. Glenn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BH206L3 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well do your private pilot certification in an airplane, I fly both! And if all you really want to do is just fly go Sport Pilot, no medical to bother with then if you can afford to get yourself a Piper J-3 cub and just fly! I warn you its habit forming I only intended to do a Private Pilot Certificate Fixed wing, it didn't end well for me, I ended up with an ATP for airplanes single and multi, Commercial Helicopter Instrument helicopter, Flight instructor airplanes single and multiengine, rotorcraft helicoper, Instrument airplane and helicopter! And going on 41 years of it now! The transition to rotorcraft was on that much of a deal then again I learned in a Bell 47 back in the day! its way to expensive these days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PondJumper Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 If you are only looking to get your Private Cert., you may not save much cash by getting your fixed wing first. Truth be told, you may actually spend more money. Something to keep in mind is that while Part 61 only requires 19 hrs. in helicopter for add on Pvt. Rating, it will almost certainly take at least twice that for you to gain the proficiency you will need to pass the Practical. In my experience, it takes most people at least 50 hrs to get their PPL in Heli, and I've seen as much as 90 hrs.. Not sure about the airplane side but I think 40 hours is the minimum for Part 61 for PPL (in airplane). So, you could potentially end up paying for around 90 hrs. of flight when all is said and done. What others have said is true about being able to learn radios, airspace, etc., and transferring that knowledge over, but honestly all that can be done during ground school. I think what takes the most time is actually learning to control the helicopter. IMO, doing the add on route only makes sense if you are looking to add on your Commercial Helicopter (which is commonly done). Obviously this isn't and certainty and YMMV, but just something to think about. I'm no expert, or even close (just sharing what I've seen happen). I hope this helps. Good luck man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhanner1 Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 If it takes you 90 hours to finish your PPL, you may want to consider a new career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearly Retired Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 If you just want to fly privately (i.e. not for money) then by all means get your fixed-wing first. As others have pointed out, there are many things common to both f/w and r/w flying, and it's better to learn them in a relatively cheaper aircraft if that's an option. Yes, it may take longer, and you may spend just as much money or more on both ratings. But think of it this way: You'll be an airplane pilot as well! I never understood the prejudice that some helicopter pilots have for fixed-wing flying. To me it's all good, it's all flying. And if you truly love to fly, then you'll fly...whatever...just to be "up there." I've been dual-rated all my life: Flown helicopters professionally and owned three different airplanes for fun. Although the majority of my time is r/w, I do have about 1,000 hours of f/w time (both land and sea). So I, you know, thought I knew how to fly airplanes...thought I was pretty competent. Then two years ago I got my tailwheel endorsement in an Aeronca Champ. Hoo-boy, was I wrong about the competency thing! I felt like a young Avbug going for a 747 rating...you know, totally out of my element...and league. But I persisted and got the damn endorsement. But I don't delude myself. I will not fly a tailwheel airplane unless there is absolutely zero wind or it's blowing straight down the runway at every airport I want to use and forecast to stay that way until my next birthday. Point being, flying is fun! *ALL* flying is. Helicopters are great, but "nobody" is going to rent you one to go messing around (e.g. landing off-airport for a "picnic" with your girlfriend). Airplanes can be funner (sic) in that you can rent one and fly off to parts unknown and when you get back you won't have to rob a bank or sell a testicle to pay for the flight time. Don't want to rent? Buy one! My boss has a super-clean Cessna 182 that *used* to be worth about $90k. Now it's worth less than half of that. It breaks his heart that it's worth so little and he can't even bring himself to sell it. In fact, perusing Trade-a-Plane you can find very nice, well-equipped anything for about $50k. Dozens of them, take your pick. Cessna...Piper...Beech...you name it...whatever make/model you want you can have for 50-grand. Want a classy old Bellanca Viking? (I wouldn't, not even with a new engine.) Same thing, 50g's will get you a nice one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avbug Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Ironically, when I went to initial for the 747, I'd just come out of an Air Tractor 802 that summer. When we did V1 cuts in the simulator during the early sim sessions, I had a tendency to use large rudder inputs, which may be fine in a tailwheel small airplane, but are definitely not going to work the same in a large airplane. Worse, I tried to fly it like a tailwheel airplane, with multiple rudder inputs, and what was really needed was to make one input, wait, and make corrections for that correction...one at a time. I was over-controlling, big time. It was like re-learning to fly. For a number of years I'd transition between ag aircraft and turbojet aircraft, and the switch from high and fast to low and slow was always a matter of re-learning, breaking habits and switching gears. Every few months, every season, often multiple times during the season. Hopping between fixed wing and rotor is a similar concept. Especially in your initial experience, it may be best to stick with one and learn it (really learn it) before focusing on the other. Transfer of skills and understanding can be a positive thing if you're guided and instructed properly. It can also be a negative thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 There are as many ways to go about it as you can dream up. I read recently on AOPA forums about doing it like this - Private Airplane then Recreational Helicopter then Commercial Helicopter. Though there is nothing stopping you from going Private Airplane straight to Commercial Helicopter either. Six of one, half dozen of another. Either way, if you go this route - I highly recommend finding a dual rated CFI to keep the negative transfer of learning to a minimum. For example a helicopter only CFI might say "add left pedal when you increase power" and an airplane CFI might say "add right pedal when you increase power" where as a dual rated instructor like mine did might say"add whatever pedal you need to add in the amount needed to keep the nose straight" - might seem silly but you are building muscle memory and it all starts with the muscle in between the ears. the negative transfer of learning people are talking about, is reprogramming the brain from "add right pedal" to "add left pedal" when in the beginning it should have been "add whatever pedal necessary" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) If it takes you 90 hours to finish your PPL, you may want to consider a new career.I know of one that didn't solo until after 100 hrs......but yes, I agree with the new career option! As far as training, as a new pilot, I think it best if you learn on the helo and become proficient with it.....if that's what you're gonna fly the airplane time doesn't help you much. The rate for training in a 44 seems very reasonable, so do the hours...(55 total) Fly Safe! Goldy Edited December 12, 2015 by Goldy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCBOATER Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 If you want to fly helicopters then train on helicopters. If trying to learn to ride a motorcycle would you train for it in a car??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian47 Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 If you want to fly helicopters then train on helicopters. If trying to learn to ride a motorcycle would you train for it in a car???I wouldn't...but a car doesn't cost 50% less than a motocycle to operate. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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