is the career worth the price of admission?

[mudkow60]

You expect an employer to pick up your hotel and airline fee?

[r22butters]

You expect an employer to pick up your hotel and airline fee?

 

I have heard of employers covering airfaire and hotel to interview high time pilots, however that is not the question put forth here!

[avbug]

At a job fair, no employer is going to pick up expenses.

 

Most good employers (not all) will pay airfare, hotel, and usually per diem for a job interview.

[r22butters]

Seriously! My question was that cryptic?! Ok, I'll try it from a different angle!

 

Would you pay $650 bucks to go to a job fair where of all the employers there, there was only one with whom you might have a slim chance at getting noticed? A company that was most likely only looking for one pilot!?

[james28]

Seriously! My question was that cryptic?! Ok, I'll try it from a different angle!

 

Would you pay $650 bucks to go to a job fair where of all the employers there, there was only one with whom you might have a slim chance at getting noticed? A company that was most likely only looking for one pilot!?

Yes.

 

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

-Wayne Gretzky

-MICHAEL SCOTT

[mudkow60]

Butters,

 

I spent lots of money and time going to HAI, going to meet people I met at HAI, paying for airline tickets from Puerto Rico to CA and OR for interviews and meet-and-greets. In the end, I ended up getting the job I wanted (partly because of my experience, partly due to luck, and partly due to some of the connections I had made during my job search (which lasted almost 2 years since I first decided to leave the service)).

 

So, yes, it is probably worth it... but I would suggest a hearty dose of humility and an attitude change from what I have seen from these posts before someone were to attempt this route.

[r22butters]

Butters,

 

... but I would suggest a hearty dose of humility and an attitude change from what I have seen from these posts before someone were to attempt this route.

Ah', but I wasn't always the cynical a**hole you see before you now! Believe it or not, I was once as doe-eyed and optimistic as our young, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." friend a couple posts up!

 

So there's another "price of admission", the risk of this cold, heartless, stuckup industry beating the sh*t out of you, 'til there's nothing left but a pessimistic, cynical, (sarcastic) steaming pile of butters!

[mudkow60]

How many years were you in for, if I may ask?

[r22butters]

How many years were you in for, if I may ask?

I've been a pilot for almost fifteen years now, flying on my own dime. I gave the job search a good ten years (give or take), but I was never really "in"!

[avbug]

The ability to find work in aviation is directly tied to the amount of effort expended.

 

Applying to a couple of companies or attending a job fair doesn't count for much.

 

After the thousandth resume, handshake, trip to meet, interview, and call, then complain about the effort and expense or difficulty in finding work.

 

At that point you'll have just got started, but at least you'll have started to try. Chances are you'll be well employed long before that point. Whatever you do, don't whine about the state of the industry if you've had just two possibilities and turned them both down. That's not trying. That barely qualifies as a hobby.

[r22butters]

The ability to find work in aviation is directly tied to the amount of effort expended.

 

Applying to a couple of companies or attending a job fair doesn't count for much.

 

After the thousandth resume, handshake, trip to meet, interview, and call, then complain about the effort and expense or difficulty in finding work.

 

At that point you'll have just got started, but at least you'll have started to try. Chances are you'll be well employed long before that point. Whatever you do, don't whine about the state of the industry if you've had just two possibilities and turned them both down. That's not trying. That barely qualifies as a hobby.

Put me back on your list, dammit!

[Wally]

Seriously! My question was that cryptic?! Ok, I'll try it from a different angle!

 

Would you pay $650 bucks to go to a job fair where of all the employers there, there was only one with whom you might have a slim chance at getting noticed? A company that was most likely only looking for one pilot!?

Would and have done so, a couple of times.

 

As to potential employers paying for accommodation and other travel expenses BEFORE the job offer? Never.

Well, once, and then only to a very few selected potential hires who had been extensively screened and telephone interviewed. When I accepted PHI's offer of employment in 1984, they had selected 12 potential hires for the management interview in Lafayette. Some very, very qualified competition...

Successful interviews resulted in a firm offer of employment and an starting date. Those not hired were paid mileage from their home address to Lafayette. My recollection is that Lafayette would sponsor the room that night for long commutes on an individually arranged basis, but you agreed to pay for the room at their rate.

 

My opinion is that the interview is a personality assessment, pure and simple. If you are seriously INTERVIEWING, management has already reviewed your qualifications and made a decision that your interview will confirm... or not. You can blow an offer preparation by having a bad day or not appearing to have the credentials offered. There is no room in this job for 'bad days' and bad moods..

[DEEZALL]

Butters, where is it that I can find such events? It may not be a bad idea to attend one of these, if i can find one fairly local. They had a heli pilot thing at the ga national fair grounds a couple years ago.

[r22butters]

Butters, where is it that I can find such events? It may not be a bad idea to attend one of these, if i can find one fairly local. They had a heli pilot thing at the ga national fair grounds a couple years ago.

 

Well Helisuccess is every October, but its in Vegas. Heliexpo (which has a smaller helisuccess the day before) moves all over the country,...but the next one (in February) is also in Vegas! It was in Orlando back in 2011 (that's the first one I went to), so I'm sure it'll be back you way at some point

 

Those are the only two I know of though.

[Eric Hunt]

What a shame that Avbug's post will be automatically "ignored" by Butters' browser.

 

For those starting out, just the fact that you reached the minimum standards to get a licence doesn't mean you are any good, and an interview / check ride will show that up pretty quickly. It isn't a green card to walk into a job.

 

Almost anybody can pay bucketfuls of money and eventually get a licence. But the more money you spent, then maybe the slower learner you were. An employer may want a pilot who catches on a bit faster.

[Lindsey]

$300-400K for an airline pilot? Nah.

? I know many pilots making well over $300k at a major airline, and they don't even work for the highest paying one. And at that level they only work 12-13 days a month.

[ByteFlighter]

$300-400K for an airline pilot? Nah.

 

 

Yeah, take a look at this website. These are the best figures you are going to find on Airline Pilot pay short of combing through the Union contracts.

 

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/united_airlines

 

To do those calculations, APs regularly fly lines between 70-85 hours a month. A rough but good estimation is take the base pay per hour and multiply by 1000.

 

Before you fall out of your chair, this is only base pay, not including override pay, per diems, profit sharing (base x 15% avg) 401k matching, line check airman add, FI duty add, dead heading etc.

 

Best part is, like Lindsey mentions above, 12-13 days a month working total. Also should be noted, 50% of those wide body trips require 4 Pilots. All wide bodies have crew rest beds. Those pilots take off, make their beds, sleep 5-7 hours with full pay, switch and babysit the flight deck for another 5-7 hours, then all 4 return for the initial descents into their destinations. Finally they arrive at their 5-star hotels stipulated in their union contracts.

 

Yes I know this is rather exclusive to the legacy Airlines (A total of 60,000 pilots combined at each legacy). But even Jet Boooo and Southwest carry a big stick as well.

 

The golden age wage is back, the question is for how long?

[r22butters]

Those pilots take off, make their beds, sleep 5-7 hours with full pay, switch and babysit the flight deck for another 5-7 hours, then all 4 return for the initial descents into their destinations.

Many moons ago when I was, I think 18, maybe 19, during the second week of my ground school class at Sierra Academy they showed us a film that displayed this very scenario.

 

,...I quit flight school the next day!

 

That job just seemed way too boring, no matter how much they make!

[mudkow60]

Butters,

 

You have been everywhere but nowhere.

[r22butters]

Butters,

 

You have been everywhere but nowhere.

 

I suppose, but I have been inside the Great Pyramid in Giza!

[TomPPL]

 

 

So there's another "price of admission", the risk of this cold, heartless, stuckup industry beating the sh*t out of you, 'til there's nothing left but a pessimistic, cynical, (sarcastic) steaming pile of butters!

.....I thought this was just life in general?

[helonorth]

? I know many pilots making well over $300k at a major airline, and they don't even work for the highest paying one. And at that level they only work 12-13 days a month.

 

No, you don't.

[Lindsey]

 

No, you don't.

Um, okay?

[richeh123]

ok.....almost exactly 6 years ago, i asked the same question....then i mentioned buying my own helicopter for the training...WOW... i dont think i got one positive reply! i think that was my first and until now my last time posting on here. at the time i was 44.......ya.....that makes me 50 now!! anyway...i bought my own helicopter ( which saved me about 40 grand in training), then sold it... i am sitting at 1200 hours right now pic. i am now about ready to start trying to get into the job market. i dont know what will happen, but i do know if this is a passion for you.....then do it!!! i would have regretted it for the rest of my life if i would not have at least tried!

[r22butters]

ok.....almost exactly 6 years ago, i asked the same question....then i mentioned buying my own helicopter for the training...WOW... i dont think i got one positive reply! i think that was my first and until now my last time posting on here. at the time i was 44.......ya.....that makes me 50 now!! anyway...i bought my own helicopter ( which saved me about 40 grand in training), then sold it... i am sitting at 1200 hours right now pic. i am now about ready to start trying to get into the job market. i dont know what will happen, but i do know if this is a passion for you.....then do it!!! i would have regretted it for the rest of my life if i would not have at least tried!

So, six years with your own chopper? Watcha been doin' for 1200 hours?