Refusing to give up!

[IFLY]

If you really want to do this you will find a way. I'll have to fly until I'm 90 to pay back my loans if I stay working as a CFI and I don't care as long as I get to fly. I fly fixed wing too but I don't want to fly a bus with wings. Save your money and stay with Helicopters then later add on fixed if you want to. I did some of my Instrument training in fixed just to save money learning how to talk and read the instruments at the same time.

 

Ignore the BS and just look for the good ideas. Sound like your in debt up to your eyeballs like most of us.

[mechanic]

Joker,

I think you are wrong on your last post on many levels.. First, you took the quote out of context. The poster was giving credits to both sides for reaching their goal to become a helicopter pilot with both military and civilian terms.

 

You are not american and don't understand or love this country the way its people do. Americans tend to want to help others, this is our biggest fault. We give billions out every year to other countries. I also never said the US is a perfect nation either, we do make many mistakes. The only way to not make a mistake is not do anything at all. And yes, you are losing credits with me post by post.. I know it will keep you up at night, lol. Maybe you added a point or two....By the next post down. LOL....

 

Most of us who have become helicopter pilots have made sacrifices. Either through the military with all dedication, duty, honor and sacrifices that it requires, or through the civilian route, with all the loans, 2nd & 3rd jobs, living on crappy CFI pay, time and money away from the family.

 

Cyrak6,

I don't think you need to keep giving such long explanations. Maybe just a thank you and move on. Seems this thread is running circles.

 

Good Day

[joker]

Mechanic,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I'm sorry to hear that I am 'losing my credits' with you. I know you to be one of the more open-minded persons here. I noted you removed your previous posts in a positive act. Maybe we can beg to differ on this subject and build those credits back in other subjects (I suggest 'helicopters', as that's why we are here) in the future.

 

As to a couple of your points.

 

I took the original statement totally in context. I even PM'd Bayou explaining that. The point was even though he'd made an effort to give credit to all, military or civilian alike, he'd unwittingly shown a perceptual bias that I'm talking about.

 

I hear / know that about the English too...and many other nations. Althoguh, I am not English and have never said as such.

 

You will never hear me say any country is 'far superior' than the US. What I am saying is twofold. One, that the US is not as free as some might think. Two, that there are many countries equally free as the US. That's different. Please don't now put words into my mouth.

 

Joker

[mechanic]

No, thank you Joker for clearing up some "still" confusion on my part on your stance. I will edit my previous post so it doesn't seem to be adding words to you. I bet your Canadian??????? LOL....

 

I took the original statement totally in context. I even PM'd Bayou explaining that. The point was even though he'd made an effort to give credit to all, military or civilian alike, he'd unwittingly shown a perceptual bias that I'm talking about.

 

What many are trying to convey, in simple terms, is that when we are "signed" on with the Uncle, we are held to a higher standard than a regular college kid working a partime job. We get the very best training to be had in the vocational training fields, plus all the other "military" training thats required. So, we have more life skills than the average Joe.

 

Performance wise, I all the time get asked where I went to school for mechanics training. People say I make it look so easy. I say my Uncle taught me. And as a mechanic you never stop learning, everyday is some new equipment to learn the quirks of. Military vocationally trained people do out perform most civilian vocationally trained people, from my experience. There are always exceptions though. I have seen a few military, and wonder what the, how'd they manage to get through all the required training, get here and not know the basics?? My replacement was this way. I think he lived in the twilight zone. Scary..

 

Safe Flights, all.

[Pogue]

Cyrak - Looking at the myspace page you mentioned to start with, it sure looks to me like it's set up to take donations since you have what appears to be a link to a paypal account and a lot of discussion about what you'll do with any money that comes in. That doesn't bother me although I doubt it's going to net you much... I would submit that you may want to look at the reaction to that approach you're getting on this forum and bear in mind that when you're looking for a job down the road this group is probably fairly representative of the types of people you'll be sending a resume to. I'm not trying to be judgemental here, so please don't take it that way.

 

Also, I think you have a rather optimistic view what helicopter training is like. While it's a lot of fun, it's also a lot of work, a lot of studying, and if you take the view that if you fail a test you can keep taking it till you pass you will find that a good school is going to ground you till your academics improve. Also if you're going the usual route in the US where you will work as a CFI to gain hours you can consider your entire flight training experience to be one long job interview.

 

I would suggest that if you think this is something you might want to do, you take a lesson when you can afford it. That may only be one lesson a month or less depending on your finances. It will be slow and is certainly not the best way to learn, but it keeps you out of debt and doing some flying while you become a little less "aimless."

 

Joker - yeah, we in the US tend not to understand how things work in other countries since by and large we're not a well travelled group of people, the exception being, interestingly enough, those in the military. Having been deployed in theater with military forces from many other countries I actually don't see much difference in attitude between people who serve in the US military versus other countries. Certainly the US isn't the only free country - but all the others have their own military to keep it that way. I think Cyrak made the correct choice as far as the military for her but probably for the wrong reason. I can speak to the fact that in the US, at least, the military generally is going to offer better training in many fields than is available on the outside, but there is an obligation attached to that training that shouldn't be minimized. I'm not talking about "truth, honor & the American way..." but the fact that the military is training you for a reason - you don't have the option of choosing what you get assigned to. If you join the Army to get helicopter training, don't be surprised if your high altitude experience is in Afghanistan. If you don't like the Commander-in-Chief, deal with it - I haven't cared for every president in office but that's not a requirement of my job. If you don't like the mission, that's OK too, but you still have to do it. I've served with plenty of people who are in the military for the opportunities who don't like everything associated with it, but do their jobs to the best of their ability. I've also served with those who think the Army is supposed to take care of them but are a waste of good air because they don't "like" the assignment they're given.

[FlyNHighNFast]

Interesting the number of credit card applications I get sent each day, which get returned with an empty envelope. Just my way of sticking it to the man!

 

ROFLMAO! Maybe if we all did this it would cut down on the unsolicited credit offers. I've already burnt out one heavy duty shredder this year on that crap.

[captkirkyota]

ROFLMAO! Maybe if we all did this it would cut down on the unsolicited credit offers. I've already burnt out one heavy duty shredder this year on that crap.

 

 

The best thing to do is save other junk mail, scraps of paper, even put some sand in those envelopes and send it to them. Those postage paid return envelopes they send you are based on weight, so that costs them more to get them sent back. Write a note telling them thank you and please keep sending you offers, you are looking for a place to get rid of the extra dirt after landscaping your yard, and trying to save money on trash bags being filled with all the junk mail. It STOPS the junk mail from that particular company usually by no more than 2 more offers!

[captkirkyota]

I still stand by my statements, should have not bothered to post this here as it just did not come across as intended, I believe you when you say you will work hard, however the net and text never fully disclose intentions as well as it sounds in your head when you type it, so it just seems to much like begging, sorry.

Secondly, had YOU not brought up your distaste for this administration, and just kept it that you were medically unqualified, ( which I DID read Joker ) you would not have stirred the pot, because again it was YOU Cyrak that brought that into this topic and thus opened it up to turn into that kind of subject.

 

 

Joker, sorry to say it but your reaction to this statement ......

 

>>>>Example of my point - Quoting Bayou's last:

 

"Either through the military with all dedication, duty, honor and sacrifices that it requires, or through the civilian route, with all the loans, 2nd & 3rd jobs, living on crappy CFI pay, time and money away from the family. "

 

Do his words imply that civilian's don't have dedication, duty, honour and sacrifices? Yes! What is more, he probably didn't even think about that when he wrote it. There is the indoctrination at work.

 

....... to me speaks more of your mindset and what YOU think he meant it. As I read what he said, I saw him trying to speak to her that the dedication to duty etc would mean going against her principles as it were toward the admin, and that she would prolly not want to do that, and that it would be just as hard the military route as it would the civilian route, and he was just being brief in describing the military stuff, because he is talking about the delay that route would be toward outside real world flying, ie bootcamp, flight training, being sent overseas possibly, the lousy conditions in some places stationed, the years of obligation to serve etc, so as I read it he was trying to say to her both routes are hard and are gonna require hard work and sacrifice, just in different forms. While I did not interpret anything she'd ever said to mean she was not willing to work hard at it, he may have and was trying to point out that any way to this goal will require it.

 

So I'll agree with your statement that we can agree to disagree. ( you have not lost my respect either, since I for one like dissenting opinions from mine, it makes one think and ponder what you truly believe or not and keeps one sharp. Never been, nor will be, nor will surround myself with YES men/women if I become a boss. Keep bringing your opinions here. )

 

 

( and to repeat, text does not read as well as it sounds in ones head while typing it, especially since no one wants to write a 14 page reply to truly convey what takes 12 seconds to think. )

[RotorWeed]

I DID NOT "set up a webpage to get people to give me donations"! It was only ONE of many things I mentioned on that webpage, and what I had actually suggested was simply the idea of a "fundraiser" involving people sending $1.00 each. I NEVER intended them to do it for nothing in return. I was asking for IDEAS, as in "what would you be willing to donate a dollar for?" A large part of it was inspired by the fact that several members of my family had offered to send me small amounts of money, and I simply wanted an account for them to send it to. The webpage was as much for them as for strangers.

 

I'm sorry this sounds like total BS to me Lady (my opinon). If you want your family to send you money they could send it to you directly, and everyone could save the high fees PayPal charges.

This would equal more money in your pocket, with less hassle for them. Right?

 

Also how does your family know that helifund is you? I mean I don't see your real name or address posted anywhere on it? Perhaps there is more then one helifund out there and Aunt Sara might send the money to the wrong one? Just a thought.

 

I know what you are going to say Cyrak about not using your "real" contact information but in your last post you typed the sentence "The webpage was as much for them as for strangers."

To me that means you do want strangers to send you money to your pay pal account. In a previous post you said you don't want strangers to send some obscure paypal account money, so which is it?

Do you want us to send you money or not?

 

RW

[Bayou06]

Cyrak - Looking at the myspace page you mentioned to start with, it sure looks to me like it's set up to take donations since you have what appears to be a link to a paypal account and a lot of discussion about what you'll do with any money that comes in. That doesn't bother me although I doubt it's going to net you much... I would submit that you may want to look at the reaction to that approach you're getting on this forum and bear in mind that when you're looking for a job down the road this group is probably fairly representative of the types of people you'll be sending a resume to. I'm not trying to be judgemental here, so please don't take it that way.

 

Also, I think you have a rather optimistic view what helicopter training is like. While it's a lot of fun, it's also a lot of work, a lot of studying, and if you take the view that if you fail a test you can keep taking it till you pass you will find that a good school is going to ground you till your academics improve. Also if you're going the usual route in the US where you will work as a CFI to gain hours you can consider your entire flight training experience to be one long job interview.

 

I would suggest that if you think this is something you might want to do, you take a lesson when you can afford it. That may only be one lesson a month or less depending on your finances. It will be slow and is certainly not the best way to learn, but it keeps you out of debt and doing some flying while you become a little less "aimless."

 

Joker - yeah, we in the US tend not to understand how things work in other countries since by and large we're not a well travelled group of people, the exception being, interestingly enough, those in the military. Having been deployed in theater with military forces from many other countries I actually don't see much difference in attitude between people who serve in the US military versus other countries. Certainly the US isn't the only free country - but all the others have their own military to keep it that way. I think Cyrak made the correct choice as far as the military for her but probably for the wrong reason. I can speak to the fact that in the US, at least, the military generally is going to offer better training in many fields than is available on the outside, but there is an obligation attached to that training that shouldn't be minimized. I'm not talking about "truth, honor & the American way..." but the fact that the military is training you for a reason - you don't have the option of choosing what you get assigned to. If you join the Army to get helicopter training, don't be surprised if your high altitude experience is in Afghanistan. If you don't like the Commander-in-Chief, deal with it - I haven't cared for every president in office but that's not a requirement of my job. If you don't like the mission, that's OK too, but you still have to do it. I've served with plenty of people who are in the military for the opportunities who don't like everything associated with it, but do their jobs to the best of their ability. I've also served with those who think the Army is supposed to take care of them but are a waste of good air because they don't "like" the assignment they're given.

 

LOL, this has been an interesting thread!

 

Joker,

After reading your PM and now yours and others public posts, I think I understand what you're about. NOT being an American, you seem to have such a "informed" opinion about the mentality of Americans in general and American Servicemen in particular. I'd like to say that I think you are the LEAST qualified to pontificate on the American Serviceman and our "wicked" governments intentions. You like so many of the elite leftist and the flaky hollywood types think that soldiers are just mind numbed robots following orders. Having never served in or around the American military, how can you profess to have any form of an educated opinion on the matter? The average military pilot is highly educated, have been trained to fly complex aircraft under extremely challenging conditions in hostile if not deadly environments. Yet, you liken us to some brainless autotron? When we soldiers talk among ourselves, we have VERY spirited discussions about our governement and our elected leaders. While we may not agree with all of their policies, we obey them and carry them out. That is our JOB, that is what we enlisted to do. We don't publicly express our political views and rant and rave in public. But we do VOTE and in large percentages and numbers, much more than the average populus. We don't have to dig what we do, we just have to do it. If we didn't, and we just did what we wanted to do, well, we wouldn't have an army, we would just have an armed mob.

 

Mechanic was right. A person could say that I was "well traveled". And yes, it was mostly through the military. I have served in Europe, Africa, the caribbean, and all over the middle east. With my own eyes, not what some rag newspaper prints or what talking head blathers on about, I have seen the results and devistation of the lack of freedom. While you make the term freedom into a punchline, I hold it closer to my heart, like most servicemen who have seen what I've seen. I've served with over 30 different country's Armies here of late. If you want to see someone who takes freedom seriously, talk to a soldier or civilian for that matter, from one of the former soviet or eastern bloc countries. Most have almost a childlike giddiness to them about their new country and the new direction that it is going. They are experiencing freedom for the first time after being under the thumb of an oppressive regieme. You just glibbly imply that the United States is some type of "oppressive regieme", while you probablly live and work here enjoying the freedom that SERVICEMEN paid for with their blood. So do us all a favor and keep your "thoughtful insights" about America to yourself.

 

As far as the bit about pilot training, Mechanic is again on the money. In my earlier post I was attempting to illustrate that BOTH military and civilian trained pilots make sacrifices. While my description of the military pilot was a bit more passionate (being an Army pilot, I'm allowed), I thought my description of the sacrifices made by civilian trained pilots was pretty eye opening. Heck, considering what the average civilian pays for higher education, civilian trained pilots must have a passion to fly to justify the tremendous cost of training.

 

Anyway, this has been an interesting thread. I hope this flaky girl sticks with being a Veterinary assistant or whatever she is. I think we would all be better served not having such a flake flying the public around.

[klas]

...I hope this flaky girl sticks with being a Veterinary assistant or whatever she is. I think we would all be better served not having such a flake flying the public around.

 

Can we pls stop with this thread & all the childish name calling? It does NOTHING to increase the reputation of helo pilots OR the professed professionalism you all are saying she is without.

[JPDPilot]

Cyrak,

 

Why don't you start another tread, and maybe name it "Refusing to give up 2". This one is getting carried away.

 

Posters keep on the point. Discuss politics somewhere else.

 

JPDPilot

[JPDPilot]

The end.

[Merc]

Any comments about religion that need to be said.

 

 

 

Please don't I'm just kidding

 

 

 

And please don't hit me.

[RotorWeed]

Can we pls stop with this thread & all the childish name calling? It does NOTHING to increase the reputation of helo pilots OR the professed professionalism you all are saying she is without.

 

 

After she insulted our men and women in uniform on this forum by posting this, and I quote;

 

"Today, I doubt you would find many new recruits who would sign up for Iraq without the promise of that $20,000 signing bonus, or the GI Bill. They might say they would, but that's because they know they will get them anyway. Ask them to sign that waiver, and see what they say. And there are many other benefits which entice people to join, but have nothing to do with patriotism. Training, discipline, respect from others, travel, adventure, physical improvement, running from something at home, even the chance to carry those "cool" guns - all of these things can play their part in convincing someone to join the military, but they are all selfish in their own way."

 

I think Bayou6 should be allowed to voice his views as well. Especially after she says the new recruits are nothing more then hired mercenaries. She clearly has no clue what motivates our service men and women.

 

RW

[klas]

After she insulted our men and women in uniform on this forum by posting this, and I quote;

 

"Today, I doubt you would find many new recruits who would sign up for Iraq without the promise of that $20,000 signing bonus, or the GI Bill. They might say they would, but that's because they know they will get them anyway. Ask them to sign that waiver, and see what they say. And there are many other benefits which entice people to join, but have nothing to do with patriotism. Training, discipline, respect from others, travel, adventure, physical improvement, running from something at home, even the chance to carry those "cool" guns - all of these things can play their part in convincing someone to join the military, but they are all selfish in their own way."

 

I think Bayou6 should be allowed to voice his views as well. Especially after she says the new recruits are nothing more then hired mercenaries. She clearly has no clue what motivates our service men and women.

 

RW

 

And you made your points - let it go.

[Copterpilot213]

I think at this point we need to be asking ourselves what we can do to prevent this board from becoming like JH.

 

It seems to me that, as others have pointed out, this thread is now going in circles. The moment politics got involved everything productive went out the window.

 

Those with differing views should probably agree to disagree and I think it'd be great if everyone let this topic die unless anyone has suggestions the OP was orginaly asking for before this became what it is now. Or maybe even just PM her and really officially let the thread die.

 

Just my opinion.

[joker]

Bayou06,

 

Thanks for your reply. I agree this has been an interesting thread. I know I opened up a can of worms. I said that before.

 

Well, I have made most of my points previously, so won't repeat them.

 

I have also read all the counter-posts and will take your messages seriously on board. I have learnt from this thread, hearing what you all have to say. Some of it will certainly change my attitudes, some of it will go through one ear and out of the other, and some may only re-affirm what I think. Either way, I have learnt from yours and other replies. Thanks. As someone said, on some issues we must just agree to disagree.

 

With regards to our relative 'qualifications to comment' let's just say it works both ways. I have travelled far and wide too. Not to 'hot zones' as you have, but nevertheless to a whole load of different cultures and countries. What you see as part of a 'standing force' and what I see as a traveller are going to be totally different. Whose experince is more realistic? I don't know. All I'll say is that sometimes the front row at the concert is not always the best.

 

I just want to say, I am awestruck by the discipline of any armed force. I envy the training in a whole load of areas, and the attention to perfection that comes with it. I know without these, the whole system falls apart. There are a great many positive outcomes of any military existance. There are a great many negative outcomes too.

 

So Bayou, think of me what you will (such as you told me so strongly in PM!). I will ease up on this issue now...no more posts from me on this one...let the thread run its course. Some may see my point, others will be totally opposed. That's fine. All most want is that posts are kept cordial. Healthy debate is good. 'Name calling' is not called for. I think even Bayou would agree with me there!

 

I have raised an issue and laid it on the table. Only people's actions will prove me right or wrong.

 

That's all from me. Thanks for your patience everyone!

 

And as Mechanic says:

 

'Safe flying everyone!' - or whatever it was!

 

Joker

 

P.S. As for this forum turning into one just like 'that other one', I don't think so. I wouldn't let it go that way, nor would the members or Mods. We all left 'that other one' for a reason!

[Merc]

P.S. As for this forum turning into one just like 'that other one', I don't think so. I wouldn't let it go that way, nor would the members or Mods. We all left 'that other one' for a reason!

 

 

Actually I've looked at the JH thread and it's a lot nicer than this one that's for sure.

[lv@1stflite]

Thanks for the compliment earlier RW

 

WOW..... Maybe she should have gone to a Toby Keith concert dressed as Bin Laden and asked for donations for her jet fuel fund!

 

The US does have the largest VOLUNTARY military force in the world.......... HMMMMMM.... maybe there's some obscure message there.........

[Cyrak]

I don't think you need to keep giving such long explanations. Maybe just a thank you and move on. Seems this thread is running circles.

 

Yes, you are right. As I have said, that is a fault of mine - to say too much. At this point it is clear that nothing I say will make much difference, anyway. I agree that this thread has far outlived its usefulness, and since most people seem incapable of simply letting it go and moving on to a mature discussion of the questions I have actually asked, I think I will try asking them at JH, where the posters have been much more respectful. Thank you very much to everyone who has attempted to remain on topic, and even those who have not - I have listened to what you have said, and given it a lot of thought. I would never have posted here if I did not respect and value your opinions. I sincerely apologize to anyone I may have offended. Good luck to you all.

[FlyNHighNFast]

Cyrak: Good luck to you too. All I can offer as advice is to do what I did, get rid of all your debt, I only have my mortgage and car payment, it will take time, but can be done if you are willing to sacrifice. I even sold my house in CT, moved to NC and bought a bigger house last year, as it is a much cheaper to live here, the equity from the CT house is enough to cover me through CFI and house values in this area are still trending upwards due to fast growth, so I'm in a great position equity wise, not counting my 30% down on the new house.

 

Don't give up the dream, but it's not going to land in your lap just for the asking, and it is not going to happen overnight.

 

Consider moving to a more affordable part of the country if you can get the same salary there.

 

Wake up every day thinking of how to build a better mousetrap. Invent it and you will never have to worry about money again. Unfortunately someone beat me to the paper clip, but there has to be something else out there that everyone needs, that has not been done yet.

 

M.

 

P.S. If you are bad at math, you can buy lottery tickets

[Fastlane]

I am truly disappointed in the negativity some of you display, as well as the rush to judgement of someone based on a few misunderstood facts. In the past, I have always found the posters on this forum to be positive and supportive. I have no desire to engage in a debate with anyone about my previous life choices, or defend my political beliefs. All I asked for was advice and ideas. I realize that some of you may not approve of the way I went about this, but what is the point of being nasty about it? Why would you attempt to turn the focus onto trashing me? If you don't have an idea or a solution, then just move on. Don't waste your time or mine.

 

For the record, what I said was that I DID try to get into the military - twice. They will not take me. I never said I was anti-military, I said I "disagree wholeheartedly with this war, and the motivations for which it is being fought". If you had read that entire post, you would have understood that. I admit that it was a mistake to even open that can of worms, since no one can seem to have a rational discussion about it without letting emotion take over, but unfortunately, I am an honest person, and I believed it was relevant to the point.

 

I am sorry for your hardships, and it is not my intention to downplay them, or to suggest that I am more deserving. However, to imply that I have not had my own issues to deal with, and reasons for not being where I would like to be, is incredibly presumptuous. You will not find anywhere, in my webpage, this thread, or any other, where I have even hinted that I was looking to accomplish this without "hard work, diligence, and sacrifice". I am simply trying to find the most efficient path, and perhaps learn from others' mistakes or successes.

 

I wonder why, like Fry, you would choose to take this attitude, rather than being positive, or simply finding something else to do. It accomplishes nothing except to make you look petty and jaded. I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else, but it should be obvious to everyone that was not my intention. I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to truly read what I have written with an open mind, and have offered their support and suggestions.

 

I REALLY hate to beat a dead horse that should have been buried about 4 pages ago, but.... I'm gonna.

 

I wasn't being hateful, harmful, or negative on my last post. Now, that being said....

 

I feel that this post has gone on WAAAAAY too long. If this is what you feel you have to do to make it happen, then so be it. I was just merely stating the fact that this is NOT the way you want to start your helicopter career. We are all in the same boat. What will, or WILL NOT, set you apart from the crowd is the "networking" you MUST do. Starting out begging for money on myspace? You just dug a hole that you will never get out of. I sincerely hope you do, but I doubt it.

 

I am about as passionate as anyone I've talked to about this. But ya know what? I CAN'T AFFORD IT RIGHT NOW! So I'm doing what I have to do. YES, it involves FIXED WINGS. But, I'm networking myself, and getting my name out there, and I've logged more fixed wing time in my log book in the past month than I have Fling Wing in the past 6 months. <-- And I already have a fixed wing JOB lined up as soon as I'm licensed! Because of the networking!

 

Are ya pickin' up what I'm puttin' down? Do I want to fly fixed wing for the rest of my life? NO! Will it help me to get where I want to be? YES!

 

You talk about "goals", and you seem like you're steadfast and stubborn on you beliefs, opinions, and views on this world we live in. Take that passion, and turn it towards yourself. That's all I was trying to state in my last post. I wasn't trying to be mean about it.

 

But the one thing I can say to you is this.

 

I FLEW TODAY! Sure, it was a fixed wing.

 

But were you 2,000 AGL today???? NO!

 

I'm not saying that fixed wing is the answer, GOD NO!!! But there ARE things YOU can do to make this happen, and they don't involve begging for sky cash.

 

The whole Military thing? Don't try me on. I've never served, (I chose the fire service instead of the military pilot job) but it's by the grace of god and our boys and girls that I have the option to CHOOSE what I WANT to do! And I will defend them until the end! And you can take that to the bank!

 

If it's truly a dream of yours, YOU WILL find a way.

 

Note "you" was in caps. Dig deep girl, you'll find it! Turn this passion inwards!

Edited September 29, 2007 by Fastlane

[beckwith]

Hey everybody,

 

I'm not going to lie to you, the only reason I'm still reading five pages in and care enough to post is because of the political issues raised here. That being said Cyrak, I often find that my biggest hurdle in achieving a goal is starting, it can be hard to visualize my self two or three or ten years from now as a helicopter pilot and it can seem overwhelming. What I can clearly see is going to the regonal airport in the town I grew up in and taking an intro flight. I can also buy or check out books and read about helicopters and it seems that from there starting a training program is not such a big step. Granted the specifics of my situation are differant then yours but I think at the core of it we are both people who want to fly helicopters. Don't give up.

 

Now onto the hijaked and I think much more interesting part this thread. I am somewhat hessitant to engage in this fourm on the grounds that unlike Joker I'm not established on this board nor am I as eloquent a writer. but fun is fun and I love these debates.

 

The "love it or leave it" response to political dessent is at total odds with intellectual fondations of our country and is a symptom of type of intelectual laziness that is doing its best to darken my country. Ronald Reagan spoke of this country as the Shinning City on the Hilll, a beacon of hope to many around the world, a light that shone into the darkness, I fear that we may be becoming a dark and looming fortress. before I go on I want to be explicit I love this country and spent the whole of my childhood planning and expecting to serve in the military. many of my close friends are in the military and my family has a traditon of millitary service. I will not serve in Iraq. It is a millitary action based on lies and fear and greed. it is a millitary action which undermines and contradicts every thing that this country has stood for for the last two hundred years. My friends in the millitary have discuraged me from joining. I hope that some good can be salvaged in Iraq and have deep respect for those who serve to that end but I cannot take that path.

 

If you disagree with me then please join the debate of Ideas but don't presume to question my patriotism or the patriotism of others who hold my beliefs lest we decend totaly into that oppresive darkness that we have always stood against.

 

 

these are my opinions and open for debate which is the purpose of persuasive writing.

Edited September 29, 2007 by beckwith

[Copterpilot213]

You re-opened a can of worms there beckwith.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking part in either side of this "debate"... I'm just trying to figure out what it has to do with helicopters.