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Flying without medical


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#1 A-aron

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 01:53

Its been a while since I logged in around here, and even longer since I have flown. I obtained my CPL in 2015 and also had my IR. I currently do not have a valid medical. I will be in NYC soon and made the spontaneous decision to want to do a flight while in NYC. I've looked through the FARs some and I think I am on the right track but not entirely sure.

 

I would like to go for a flight in NYC while I'm there and would obviously need a CFI. Am I correct in thinking that I could essentially ask a school for like a 2 hour intro flight without having a current medical, as long as I do not log any flight time? I of course would love to do a few autos and have some fun, but understand that is unlikely. I would be happy just going for a nice 1-2 hour flight and being on the controls as much as I can.

 

FYI my main hang up on this is that 1. I do not have a current medical, 2. I am not current.

 

Also if anyone can recommend any good schools to reach out to in the NYC area I would appreciate it.



#2 helonorth

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 08:11

You do not need a medical and you can log it. I dont know of any schools up there.

#3 iChris

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 21:15

I currently do not have a valid medical. I will be in NYC soon and made the spontaneous decision to want to do a flight while in NYC. I've looked through the FARs some and I think I am on the right track but not entirely sure.

 

I would like to go for a flight in NYC while I'm there and would obviously need a CFI. Am I correct in thinking that I could essentially ask a school for like a 2 hour intro flight without having a current medical, as long as I do not log any flight time?

 

I of course would love to do a few autos and have some fun, but understand that is unlikely. I would be happy just going for a nice 1-2 hour flight and being on the controls as much as I can.

 

FYI my main hang up on this is that 1. I do not have a current medical, 2. I am not current.

 

 

As written is Helonorth’s post above you don’t need a medical and you can log PIC time. Moreover, you don’t necessarily need a CFI since you’re not seeking an additional certificate or rating.

 

The lack of a medical only relieves you of acting as PIC, not your right to logging PIC. Accordingly, the acting PIC has final authority and responsibility for the safety of the flight regardless of who is manipulating the controls.

 

Example:

 

You have a friend that owns a Bell 206 and holds a Private Pilot certificate. If your friend also holds at least a third-class medical and is rated in the aircraft, he can act as PIC for the flight and you’re good to go.

 

The FAA has stated in numerous interpretations that there is a distinction between logging PIC time and acting as a PIC. Your friend is acting as PIC the whole flight; however, you can log PIC for the portion of flight time during which you are the sole manipulator of the controls since you are also rated in the aircraft, FAR 61.51(e)(1)(i). 

 

FAR 61.51(e) governs the logging of PIC time. FAR 61.51(e)(1)(i) states, in part, that a sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log PIC time for the time during which that pilot is "the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges. 

 

The FAA has also stated in numerous interpretations the term "rated," as used in FAR 61.51(e), refers to the pilot holding the appropriate aircraft ratings (category, class, and type, if a type rating is required). 

 

Your friend could also have 10,000 hours of valuable flight experience to share but no CFI. Notwithstanding a CFI, the training is still valuable to you despite not being able to credit it toward the requirements of a pilot certificate or rating issued under Part 61.


Edited by iChris, 06 May 2019 - 23:15.

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Regards,

Chris

#4 helonorth

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 12:33

Yes, apparently you can log PIC when you are the sole manipulator of the controls but you cannot act as PIC, even when the sole manipulator without a medical. I only have one column in my logbook (years behind on, BTW) for PIC. I though it would probably have to be logged as just dual received but if you are rated in category and class, you can log PIC. I would just get a new medical. 


Edited by helonorth, 06 May 2019 - 12:34.


#5 Nearly Retired

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 08:41

helonorth:

I would just get a new medical.

 

 

Or not.  Not if he never intends to act as a PIC in the near future.  Why spend the $200?  You wanna fly? Go fly.  Just make sure there's one legal PIC onboard, whether that person is the "sole manipulator" or  not.  

 

(And by the way, for a guy who claims to be a commercial/instrument pilot, he's surely a little light in the knowledge of regulations department.)



#6 helonorth

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 14:37

I think a second class medical is more like a $100 (my first with an EKG is $175). Why spend the money? So you have a medical. Even 2 hours in an R-22 with an instructor is probably going to run you $700, so what the hell, get a medical if you can.



#7 Fred0311

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 19:04

Unless he just wants to wiggle sticks once a year and doesn't care about flight time.

#8 helonorth

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 08:02

Get a medical anyway.

#9 A-aron

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 19:03

Thanks everyone I really appreciate it. I plan on trying to get some fixed wing ratings and will get a new medical for that. I didn't decide I wanted to go for a flight until the night before leaving for a TDY and was unable to get a medical.

#10 RisePilot

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 13:13

For NYC flying, the Hudson & East River have special rules

 

New York City Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA) 

https://www.faasafet...iew=true&cID=79

 

Of course the CFI with you will have this, but it would be useful to understand it yourself.  The online course is free; takes about 20-30 minutes and the certificate is good indefinitely - so you could come back and do it yourself sometime SFH.



#11 Bryan Cobb

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 09:02

Hello Everyone,

 

Obviously no one here is versed in the Basic Med program the AOPA talked the FAA into adopting.

 

It all-but-ELIMINATES the required medical unless you are 1) Getting paid to fly 2) Flying an aircraft that weighs more than 6000# and 3) Carrying more than 6 passengers.  As a CFI, you can instruct under Basic Med.

 

It removes the AME Doctor from the equation.  It removes the FAA from the equation.  It is only between you and your Primary Care Physician.  The paperwork never goes to OK City.  It only goes in your wallet.

 

To play the game, you must have held a Class III or better within the last 10 years.  Go watch the AOPA video to learn about it here.  https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be            I rent the FBO's 172's and Arrow and take 3 friends with me many times.


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#12 iChris

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 17:20

Obviously, no one here is versed in the Basic Med program …

 

It all-but-ELIMINATES the required medical.

 

As a CFI, you can instruct under Basic Med.

 

It removes the AME Doctor from the equation.

 

It removes the FAA from the equation.

 

The paperwork never goes to OK City.  It only goes in your wallet.

The above is a slight misrepresentation of BasicMed...

 

Basic Med allows an airman who can meet alternate requirements to fly without holding a medical certificate under 14 CFR part 67. It should not be interrupted as eliminating a physical examination process. The FAA has set the criteria for the alternative Comprehensive medical examination, Medical education course requirements and limitations for Basic Med under §61.23[c][3], §61.113[i], §68.3, and §68.7.

 

As a CFI, you can instruct under Basic Med. Correct, moreover, you can instruct without any medical under §61.23[b][5] if not acting as PIC.

 

Basic Med doesn’t always remove an AME Doctor from the equation. Under certain medical conditions, a person wishing to operate under Basic Med must complete the process for obtaining an authorization for special issuance of a medical certificate, §68.9.

 

Basic Med doesn’t remove the FAA from the equation and certain paperwork is still transmitted to the FAA. Also the FAA’s  authority to require additional information, §68.3[b],  §68.11,and §61.113[i][3].

 

However, your Comprehensive Medical Examination Checklist (CMEC) is not transmitted to the FAA. Nevertheless, the airman is required under §61.113(i)(3)(i) to retain, in his or her logbook, the CMEC required under §68.7. These documents may be stored in a physical paper logbook, or electronically in any format, as long as the airman can produce an accurate and legible representation of these documents at the request of the FAA. 

 

§68.3[b] Upon successful completion of the medical education course, the following items must be electronically provided to the individual seeking to act as pilot in command under the conditions and limitations of §61.113(i) of this chapter and transmitted to the FAA—

 

(1)  Certification of completion of the medical education course, which shall be retained in the individual's logbook and made available upon request, and shall contain the individual's name, address, and airman certificate number;

 

(2) A release authorizing single access to the National Driver Register through a designated State Department of Motor Vehicles to furnish to the FAA information pertaining to the individual's driving record;

 

(3) A certification by the individual that the individual is under the care and treatment of a physician if the individual has been diagnosed with any medical condition that may impact the ability of the individual to fly, as required under §61.23( c )(3) of this chapter;

 

(4) A form that includes—

(i) The name, address, telephone number, and airman certificate number of the individual;

(ii) The name, address, telephone number, and State medical license number of the physician performing the comprehensive medical examination;

(iii) The date of the comprehensive medical examination; and

(iv) A certification by the individual that the checklist described in §68.7 was followed and signed by the physician during the medical examination required by this section; and

 

(5) A statement, which shall be signed by the individual certifying that the individual understands the existing prohibition on operations during medical deficiency by stating: “I understand that I cannot act as pilot in command, or any other capacity as a required flight crew member, if I know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make me unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.”.

 

In order for an individual to operate under Basic Med, he or she must receive a comprehensive medical examination from a State-licensed physician of their choice. The physician does not need to be an FAA-designated AME. 

 

§68.5[b] requires the physician to conduct the comprehensive medical examination in accordance with the FAA checklist, check each item specified during the examination, and address, as medically appropriate, every medical condition listed and any medications the individual is taking.

 

Therefore, your State-licensed physician of choice exercise their medical discretion to address, as medically appropriate, any medical conditions identified, and to exercise their medical discretion in determining whether any medical tests are warranted as part of the comprehensive medical examination.

 

For pilots with certain medical issues, their physician would be in a better position to render favorable decisions with respect to the pilot’s medical history. 

 

Link: FAA 8700-2 Comprehensive Medical Examination Checklist (CMEC)

BasicMed Pilot & Physicians Guide pdf


Edited by iChris, 19 May 2019 - 19:37.

Regards,

Chris

#13 Bryan Cobb

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 20:13

Pull the reg's out all you want Chris.  The de-facto way Basic Med is being applied is... 

* I take a little online testy-thingy on the AOPA website every 2 years.   (The FAA DOES get this test result from the AOPA)

* I go get a normal, non-flying physical every four years with my Primary Care Physician.

* I nor my Doctor need to see no reason physically I shouldn't fly.  

* The original forms he signs go in my wallet or logbook.  (He does not send the results to the FAA)

* I keep my Flight Review Current.

* I go rent the FBO's 172 and take my friends and family places far and near.

* If I don't have an accident or get violated, the FAA never hears anything about my health.

 

Boom.  No Medical.  A CFI can do Basic Med and can teach a non-licensed student and act as PIC.


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#14 iChris

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 20:50

Pull the reg's out all you want Chris.  The de-facto way Basic Med is being applied is... 

* I take a little online testy-thingy on the AOPA website every 2 years.   (The FAA DOES get this test result from the AOPA)

* I go get a normal, non-flying physical every four years with my Primary Care Physician.

* I nor my Doctor need to see no reason physically I shouldn't fly.  

* The original forms he signs go in my wallet or logbook.  (He does not send the results to the FAA)

* I keep my Flight Review Current.

* I go rent the FBO's 172 and take my friends and family places far and near.

* If I don't have an accident or get violated, the FAA never hears anything about my health. ***

 

Boom.  No Medical.  A CFI can do Basic Med and can teach a non-licensed student and act as PIC.

 

If the above is the case for you, OK. Document that, not all this other stuff.

 

 

This stuff below is misleading and/or incorrect. The facts please.. Iike you did in your Mini 500 post.

 

Bryan Cobb, on 18 May 2019 - 07:02, said:snapback.png

Obviously, no one here is versed in the Basic Med program …

 

It all-but-ELIMINATES the required medical.

 

As a CFI, you can instruct under Basic Med.

 

It removes the AME Doctor from the equation.

 

It removes the FAA from the equation.

 

The paperwork never goes to OK City.  It only goes in your wallet.


Edited by iChris, 19 May 2019 - 21:33.

Regards,

Chris

#15 Bryan Cobb

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 22:06

The facts...

 

It all-but-ELIMINATES the required medical.  (This is true for most cases.  Special Issuance Cases may need the Airman to get one Flight Physical from an AME before becoming eligible for Basic Med)

 

As a CFI, you can instruct under Basic Med.  (100% True even for training requiring the CFI to be PIC)

 

It removes the AME Doctor from the equation.  (True unless a new Special Issuance is needed)

 

It removes the FAA from the equation.  (True unless a new Special Issuance is needed / AOPA sends online Test Results to the FAA and your permission for FAA to check your driving record for DUI's is attached to the test)

 

The paperwork never goes to OK City.  It only goes in your wallet.  (The Medical Paperwork from the Doctor never goes to the FAA.  Only the AOPA Test results goes to the FAA)



#16 RagMan

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 22:20

Free instruction is being performed then? Because it clearly states that under the Basic Med program, the flight can not be conducted for compensation or hire.


 


#17 Bryan Cobb

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 22:32

Free instruction is being performed then? Because it clearly states that under the Basic Med program, the flight can not be conducted for compensation or hire.

It has been well document by the FAA, that they do not feel a CFI is ever FLYING for compensation or hire.  They are TEACHING for compensation or hire.  If the CFI needs to be the PIC because a Primary Student doesn't have any rating yet, the CFI is flying for free.  The pay is for the teaching.

 

That's the FAA's view.  Basic Med covers the CFI being PIC.  Nothing wrong with a CFI holding an FAA Medical, but they can instruct under Basic Med without one.


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