Navy..Air Force..Army..?

[AirOneMatthew]

Hey Everyone,

 

I am finishing up a Bachelor's in Biology from the University of Dayton (Ohio) and will graduate in May. It's been my dream and goal to fly helicopters for the military since I was young. Having glasses since the 4th grade, I thought this wasn't possible. I am planning on getting Custom Wavefront Guided Lasik (the one the Navy recommends since it deals with the night sight problems and light halos) in the fall of this year. I've been doing research everywhere, and it turns out, at least for the Navy (where my first choice is) is that I can get Lasik, be viewed by a flight surgeon and get cleared.

 

I am looking to go through the OCS route, mainly because I am interested in joining the military to serve my country AND to fly. I wouldn't want to join unless I knew I could do both. My question is...with the Army and the Air Force, am I still able to apply for OCS and a Pilot slot with Lasik? I get mixed results everywhere I've looked. The only place I am sure I am able to do this is the Navy.

 

If anyone has any information I could use here, I'd be much appreciative! I've looked through the whole Military forum on this site and didn't find too much stuff on this topic.

 

Looking forward to all the replies!

 

-Matthew

[Lindsey]

Hey Everyone,

 

I am finishing up a Bachelor's in Biology from the University of Dayton (Ohio) and will graduate in May. It's been my dream and goal to fly helicopters for the military since I was young. Having glasses since the 4th grade, I thought this wasn't possible. I am planning on getting Custom Wavefront Guided Lasik (the one the Navy recommends since it deals with the night sight problems and light halos) in the fall of this year. I've been doing research everywhere, and it turns out, at least for the Navy (where my first choice is) is that I can get Lasik, be viewed by a flight surgeon and get cleared.

 

I am looking to go through the OCS route, mainly because I am interested in joining the military to serve my country AND to fly. I wouldn't want to join unless I knew I could do both. My question is...with the Army and the Air Force, am I still able to apply for OCS and a Pilot slot with Lasik? I get mixed results everywhere I've looked. The only place I am sure I am able to do this is the Navy.

 

If anyone has any information I could use here, I'd be much appreciative! I've looked through the whole Military forum on this site and didn't find too much stuff on this topic.

 

Looking forward to all the replies!

 

-Matthew

 

I was under the impression that the Navy was the only branch left that DID NOT allow LASIK for Aviator candidates. Be CERTAIN that what you are reading is specifically for pilots, and not just a general Navy guideline for non-pilot jobs. I would contact a Navy flight surgeon or whoever is in charge of the aviator process and speak to them - don't rely solely on a recruiter.

[AirOneMatthew]

Thanks, Lindsey. I will be sure to double check the documents that were sent to me. If so, I will post them on here for some further clarification. So the Army and the Air Force do ALLOW Lasik? That's what I'm ultimately drying to figure out.

 

If they do, is the process the same, a guaranteed pilot slot, before starting OCS? Let me know when you have a chance!

 

Thanks,

Matthew

[RagMan]

I am not sure about the other branches of service, but the Army does not allow lasik to be performed on individuals who wish to fly for the army. The Army uses a slightly different procedure called PRK. Candidates who need eye surgery and are pursuing the Army's flight program can have this surgery performed and still pass the flight physical with no issues. I know of this because I had my prk surgery done while I was in the process of doing up my warrant packet, but decided to get out and pursue civilian flight instead. Still got the free surgery out of it and it works great.

[jfcorey]

I am not sure about the other branches of service, but the Army does not allow lasik to be performed on individuals who wish to fly for the army.

 

 

Are you referring to civilians who wish to enter the Army? If so than you are incorrect. I had LASIK in 2008 and passed the Class1A flight physical in 2009.

[AirOneMatthew]

Are you referring to civilians who wish to enter the Army? If so than you are incorrect. I had LASIK in 2008 and passed the Class1A flight physical in 2009.

 

 

Jfcorey,

 

Did you go OCS? Or what was your process? And when you applied were you guaranteed a flight spot? Or am I wrong on all of this? Let me know please!

 

Thanks

[jfcorey]

I was not selected by the active duty board however I am prior service and am trying to get into a warrant slot via the National Guard. There is nothing guaranteed by passing a flight physical. It simply means you are qualified for flying duty as far as the flight surgeon is concerned. The rest is up to you.

[AirOneMatthew]

Right I understand passing a flight physical means nothing. However, I was talking to a Navy pilot (not sure if it is like this for all branches...some please answer this part!) and he said that if I were to go the OCS route, and my laser surgery was successful and I pass the flight physical, I can then apply for a flight slot. I know I may get turned down, but if I do, I am not obligated to serve then. I can continue to apply for a flight slot, as long as I wasn't turned down for a medical reason, until I get accepted or run out of hope.

 

So again, if I get cleared for my laser surgery, passed the flight physical and all that...can I then apply for a pilot slot only, like in the Navy? Does this work with other branches? I'm sorry if it wasn't clear the last times. Just trying to figure things out.

[Lindsey]

Right I understand passing a flight physical means nothing. However, I was talking to a Navy pilot (not sure if it is like this for all branches...some please answer this part!) and he said that if I were to go the OCS route, and my laser surgery was successful and I pass the flight physical, I can then apply for a flight slot. I know I may get turned down, but if I do, I am not obligated to serve then. I can continue to apply for a flight slot, as long as I wasn't turned down for a medical reason, until I get accepted or run out of hope.

 

So again, if I get cleared for my laser surgery, passed the flight physical and all that...can I then apply for a pilot slot only, like in the Navy? Does this work with other branches? I'm sorry if it wasn't clear the last times. Just trying to figure things out.

 

The Army version of "applying for a pilot slot" is NOT OCS, but it is called WOFT (Warrant Officer Flight Training). Google it, do some research, and then let us know what questions you have. You *can* go the OCS route in the Army if you wish, but as a civilian you are NOT guaranteed a flight slot, and it is also EXTREMELY unlikely you will get one. There is usually only 1-3 flights slots per a class of ~130, and those usually go to candidates who have extensive flight experience or were prior enlisted in an aviation field. www.armyocs.com has more on that. There is no comprehensive site for the WOFT program for civilians, unfortunately. Just do as much research as you can. It takes a lot of reading, and you will come away with questions, and that is what we are here for.

 

www.airforceots.com may have more about the Air Force side of the house. OTS is Officer Training School - the AF version of OCS.

 

Also, for entering the Army WOFT Program as a civilian, BOTH LASIK and PRK are technically disqualifying. HOWEVER you get your surgery done, wait three months, do your Class 1A Flight Physical, and apply for a waiver. Most times these are accepted. The Army would "prefer" you to have PRK, but a lot of people still have LASIK and go through the process with little hassle. I got LASIK done in January and will take the Flight Physical at the end of April or early May. I am a civilian WOFT applicant.

 

Lindsey

[Lindsey]

Actually, after typing everything I typed above, I realized I should have just copy/pasted something I've been working on. I've been typing up a "guide" for WOFT applicants, since the lack of information (and the information that is available is so scattered) about this program is ridiculous. Apologies, it is very long, and some of it is incomplete. Here it is:

 

UNITED STATES ARMY – WARRANT OFFICER FLIGHT TRAINING

Flying for the U.S. Army is rather unique: all new aviators fly rotary-wing aircraft. While the Army does have several fixed-wing aircraft in its inventory, these are limited to seasoned and experienced aviators. Secondly, the Army is unique because Warrant Officer Flight Training (WOFT) contains a program casually called “street-to-seat” or “high-school-to-flight-school.” Civilians (college degree not required) may apply for this program. If selected, you sign a contract. If not selected, you have no obligation to the Army and are still a civilian. Sound easy? It’s not.

The WOFT Application Process works to eliminate those without the motivation to follow through. It is stressful, there are many components, and if flying for the Army is not something you really want to do, this is probably the time when you’ll figure that out…unless somehow everything works out perfectly for you. If so, I’m jealous.

 

As a civilian, the WOFT Packet consists of the following components:

ASVAB: Minimum 110 GT Score required. I used the ARCO book and got a 99 AFQT/139 GT Score, but apparently ASVAB for Dummies is highly recommended by many. Seriously.

AFAST: Minimum score of 90 required. Use the ARCO book, not the Barron’s book to study. Barron’s has entirely too many incorrect answers.

MEPS Physical: Your recruiter will schedule this for you, most likely in conjunction with your ASVAB test. Try to get this done as early into your application process as possible, so that you know if you are disqualified for something like color-blindness, which is non-waiverable for potential aviators.

Class 1A Flight Physical: While it is easier for your recruiter to schedule this, it is possible for you as a civilian to do it. If you have a lazy recruiter, track down the number of the local Army flight surgeon that would perform the flight physical. Note: this is NOT the same physical given by FAA-certified flight physicians (read: the civilian version will not replace the Army physical).

APFT: You must pass, but to be competitive, you must score very well.

Letters of Recommendation: For civilian applicants, a minimum of three and a maximum of six are required. The general rule is to select a combination of people who know you very well and can speak to your maturity, responsibility, and leadership abilities, and people who are in a high position of relevant authority. Ideally, these people would be one and the same, i.e. an Army Colonel you have known for 10 years. However, if you are like me and did not know anyone like that, do not be afraid to get into contact with an Army Aviator and ask them politely if they would be willing to interview you and perhaps write a Letter of Recommendation. Quite a few applicants do this; just make sure that not all of your Letters of Recommendation are of this nature.

Resume: This is your chance to shine and list your accomplishments without appearing like you are bragging. The resume is something you can start early and simply add to as you progress throughout high school and/or college. Take advantage of this time and do some unique and worthwhile things; they will help your resume stand out from the rest.

“Why I Want to be an Army Aviator” Essay: Straightforward: answer the question. 1 page. Write it early and simply edit it as time goes by.

¾ Length Photo: Don’t worry about this until the end of the application process. Ask your recruiter for details.

Educational Transcripts: The board will want official transcripts from high school through your most recent education level (i.e. Bachelors, etc). Obtain these ASAP so you don’t have to worry about it. This is also a hint that the board will look at your GPA, so be prepared to explain a low GPA, or you could always just focus on getting a solid one.

Professional Certificates/Flight Log (if applicable): If you have your Private Pilot’s License, are EMT-B certified, or something similar, include copies of your certificates. If you have logged significant flight time, make crisp and clear copies of your flight log.

SF-86 Form / Interim Secret Security Clearance: Your recruiter will have you fill out the computerized SF-86 form sometime during the process. This form asks you of your past history, and requires you list a lot of contacts/references as well as addresses of places you have lived and worked. Make it easier by printing out a copy of the SF-86 (easily available online) early on in the process and filling it out ahead of time, so you aren’t stressing out in the recruiter’s office because you can’t remember the address of a place you worked at five years ago.

Battalion Board Interview: This is the last major step in the process. Once your packet is completed, you will go before a “local” battalion board and they will interview you. Be prepared to answer standard interview questions (strengths and weaknesses, etc) as well as Army-specific questions (i.e. why do you want to be a Warrant Officer, what is your favorite Army value and why). The board will then rate you on a scale of 25 (some of which is based on appearance, apparent confidence level you exude, posture, etc), and send that rating along with the rest of your packet to Warrant Officer Recruiting Headquarters, who evaluates packets once every other month and makes the final decision. If you are selected, congratulations! Your recruiter will schedule you another visit to MEPS where you will find your dates and sign your contract. If you are not selected, you will be classified as either FQ/NS (Fully-qualified/Non-select, meaning your packet was complete but you were just not selected) or NQ/NS (Not-qualified/not-select, which usually means there was an issue with your packet). If FQ/NS, the board will automatically look at your packet again the next month. Again, if selected this time around, congratulations! If not selected, you are a twice non-select and must wait a year to reapply. Take that time to either examine other options if you cannot afford to wait for a year, or build up your packet and resume if you are set on this path.

 

Some potential hurdles:

Eyesight: if your vision is worse than 20/50 in either eye or is not correctable to 20/20, you will be medically “disqualified.” There are waivers, so not all hope is lost, but the waivers will not extend to those who have extremely poor vision. If you fall into that latter category (your vision is utterly terrible, as mine was), you have two options: PRK or LASIK eye surgery. I will not tell you which one to pursue, only that in general, the military “prefers” PRK (though the Army accepts both), and that I chose LASIK with incredible results. Research each on your own (and very thoroughly), and if possible consult with an Army flight surgeon to ensure that the surgery you choose is acceptable. Also, make sure you obtain all paperwork required by the Army, as your civilian surgeon will need to fill them out regarding your pre-operative refraction, and post-operative results. This paperwork is required for the eyesight waiver you will put in. You must wait three months after surgery before you are allowed to schedule your Flight Physical.

Hearing:

Color-blindness:

Height:

 

Incorrect/Incomplete packets:

 

Some other routes for getting to WOFT are:

Enlisting and then applying from within

ROTC

OCS (Officer Candidate School): While it is generally easier to get accepted to OCS than to WOFT as a civilian, there are very few (and I mean very, typically one to three at most per OCS class) Aviation slots in OCS, and there is no way to guarantee it. If you choose to go this route, you must be VERY prepared to serve in another capacity/branch of the Army. Do not go this route if you only want to fly. Strongly consider this route if your desire to serve in the United States Army as a Commissioned Officer is paramount to everything else. Keep in mind, however, that Warrant Officer Aviators can always choose to commission later in their careers.

USMA (West Point)

 

One disclaimer:

 

I wrote that you must wait a year to reapply if twice non-select, but I am unsure if it is a year or just 6 months. If someone who knows for certain can clue me in, I will change it ASAP. I've heard both.

[IjustWant2fly]

Geeze Lindsey! The board BETTER select you - thats some leadership if I've ever seen it!

 

To all the newbies: this is the most thorough compilation of WOFT info you will ever come across. It's taken me at least a year to find all this information on my own.

 

Lindsey: I went to my recruiter and we took a full length photo in a suit, think we should re-take that as a 3/4 length? or crop it or something?

[AirOneMatthew]

Lindsey,

 

THANK YOU!! That information is immensely helpful and answers just about every question I had in regards to flying for the Army. I cannot express is words how thankful I am for that information! You are the best haha! I hope everything goes well with your Packet and you get cleared to fly! Keep me posted on your progress.

 

-Matthew

[Lindsey]

Glad I could be of help. Thank you both for the praise. I can only help the board feels the same way, Ijustwant2fly.

 

I will most certainly keep you all updated on my packet progress (right now it's just waiting until 3 months after my LASIK so I can do all the physicals, and getting in shape), and please let us know if you have more questions, Matthew.

 

P.S. WOFT is the way to go. But don't hesitate to keep us updated on your progress even if you end up choosing another route.

 

-Lindsey

[Bumper]

I am not sure about the other branches of service, but the Army does not allow lasik to be performed on individuals who wish to fly for the army. The Army uses a slightly different procedure called PRK. Candidates who need eye surgery and are pursuing the Army's flight program can have this surgery performed and still pass the flight physical with no issues. I know of this because I had my prk surgery done while I was in the process of doing up my warrant packet, but decided to get out and pursue civilian flight instead. Still got the free surgery out of it and it works great.

 

When I got out Marines (2001) the only operation that was approved by both Navy and Marines was the PRK. However, the Navy was doing evaluations on Lasik. There was a program that allowed some potential pilot want to be's to get lasik and come in with a wavier. Both Services require that you are approved/waviers prior to coming into the Service assuming you are still a civilian.

Bumper

[flyingseapig]

Be careful about Navy OCS. If you go to Navy OCS and you don't get selected for a flight spot you are still obligated to serve a minimum term in the Navy unless things have changed. You may want to double check this point if you are considering Navy OCS, because once you sign on the dotted line they have you by the balls for a certain specified time whether you get a flight spot or not.

[SBuzzkill]

Geeze Lindsey! The board BETTER select you - thats some leadership if I've ever seen it!

 

To all the newbies: this is the most thorough compilation of WOFT info you will ever come across. It's taken me at least a year to find all this information on my own.

 

Lindsey: I went to my recruiter and we took a full length photo in a suit, think we should re-take that as a 3/4 length? or crop it or something?

 

What do the requirements say? If they call for a 3/4 length I would make it 3/4 length! Follow those directions as strictly as you can.

[RagMan]

If you are dead set on flying for the military, you can't beat the Army's Warrant Officer gig. Flying IS their job. If you go through OCS, you're an officer first, and a pilot 2nd. Next on the list under the Army, I would suggest going to fly helicopters for the Air Force. I always thought their Combat Search and Rescue role was an awesome gig, especially when they deploy. Plus, the Air Force has such a better life style of living of all the armed forces, no joke. The Air Force's pilot program is strictly a commissioned system however, I know their structure of officers taking command is slightly different than the Army.

[dolphindriver]

If you are dead set on flying for the military, you can't beat the Army's Warrant Officer gig. Flying IS their job. If you go through OCS, you're an officer first, and a pilot 2nd. Next on the list under the Army, I would suggest going to fly helicopters for the Air Force. I always thought their Combat Search and Rescue role was an awesome gig, especially when they deploy. Plus, the Air Force has such a better life style of living of all the armed forces, no joke. The Air Force's pilot program is strictly a commissioned system however, I know their structure of officers taking command is slightly different than the Army.

 

Actually,

The Coast Guard has the best gig. We have a great lifestyle, and the mission is excellent. Plus most pilots will continue to fly up to and often including O-6. However, most will have one staff tour during that time.

[helifixerupper]

Just a side note, AF helis are very limited compared to the Army (about 10:1 I would say) and flying can sometimes be very limited. I work with them and work with the flying schedule directly. So stateside can be a bit boring, but over seas you will fly.. a lot. CSAR is also a community in itself, and the pilots take it very seriously. Plus does you ops break room have a full service bar?

[Guest Stearmann4]

I came into the Army as a WOFT Candidate with a coupole of years post-PRK from the Navy. I had to get waiver at the time as the Army was conducting a study at the time. I believe the study is complete, and PRK is not grounds for even requiring a waiver anymore. I think your flight physical includes a more in-depth eye exam to include a topography of the eye, etc.

 

Whatever initial flight physical you pass to get accepted to WOFT, know up front that before you graduate WOC school and proceed to flight training you will have a VERY thorough flight physical administered again to catch anything that might have slipped through the process elsewhere. In my class alone we have about 5 out of 63 candidates booted for eye, heart, BP issues, etc.

 

Mike-

Edited September 10, 2010 by Stearmann4