Advice on Boatpix/Helicopter Academy - Please

[zero610]

I'm a new student to Helicopter Academy/Boatpix. I'm at 45 hours and both the instructor and I agree that I'm ready to do my private checkride. However, here is the problem. Please give your honest opinions.

 

The helicopter I'm using is near timing out (30 more hours ish). Additionally, the practical examiner is currently out of town in FL. Helicopter Academy wants me to do boat pictures this weekend to basically burn up 20 hours on the helicopter (which I admit I've gotten a deal at with $250 per hour - not that I wouldn't have been just as happy in an R22). And then another 10.5 hours on Monday to ferry the ship to FL (for its overhaul and my flight exam). Keep in mind that I don't have my private helicopter license yet so I could not log any of the time as PIC.

 

My problem with this is that I'm paying about $7,500 for that 30 hours which does NOT give me PIC time (like normal Boatpix operations). Is that unreasonable or am I being nieve about the importance of PIC?

 

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.

[permison]

Personally I would hold onto that $7500 and use it for PIC time. What say you peanut gallery?

[AStarB3]

Total time is important but that 30 hours could be put toward the 100 hours PIC you need for your CPL

[Inferno]

If youre shooting for minimums, that is a major waste of money. And $250/hr is not a deal. Thats only $15/hr less than we charge normally for dual. You could use that $7500 and get yourself an instrument ticket....

 

I have to look again at the regs and do some math, but (i think) you can get to 60 hours before taking the private check ride (including minimum solo time) and still make minimums for your commercial.

[Boatpix]

I'm a new student to Helicopter Academy/Boatpix. I'm at 45 hours and both the instructor and I agree that I'm ready to do my private checkride. However, here is the problem. Please give your honest opinions.

 

The helicopter I'm using is near timing out (30 more hours ish). Additionally, the practical examiner is currently out of town in FL. Helicopter Academy wants me to do boat pictures this weekend to basically burn up 20 hours on the helicopter (which I admit I've gotten a deal at with $250 per hour - not that I wouldn't have been just as happy in an R22). And then another 10.5 hours on Monday to ferry the ship to FL (for its overhaul and my flight exam). Keep in mind that I don't have my private helicopter license yet so I could not log any of the time as PIC.

 

My problem with this is that I'm paying about $7,500 for that 30 hours which does NOT give me PIC time (like normal Boatpix operations). Is that unreasonable or am I being nieve about the importance of PIC?

 

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.

[Boatpix]

The big advantage to going to the 'regular" examiner is that he is less likely to fail you than an unfamiliar examiner. Examiners need to fail a certain number of students and it's human nature that a 'new' examiner will be tougher on a student to set an 'example.' Sure, it's discrimination but who's to monitor that? Perhaps your cfi is savvy and trying to save you from some grief. The HelicopterAcademy program is the familiar 300 hour TOTAL TIME set forth by Pathfinder Indemnity so it doesn't really matter when you get that time. That program has created a LOT of pilots and is a good program.

[HelliBoy]

If I was in your situation I'd be thinking, "how does this impact my next ticket, the CPL?" Those 30 hours in your logbook will not count towards the 100hrs PIC you will need to get your CPL. You'll be taking your commercial checkride at 175 hours instead of 145 hours. A significant difference, especially when 30hrs represents 40% of your total flight time.

However, if I was in your position I'd also be thinking, "how does this impact my chances at future employment?" Sometimes it pays to be a team player and companies pay attention to that.

 

My advice- see if they'll meet you in the middle, your concerns are reasonable. The Pathfinder point is a good one though, see what your CFI has to say about that. It may all be a moot point.

[TXFirefly]

However, if I was in your position I'd also be thinking, "how does this impact my chances at future employment?" Sometimes it pays to be a team player and companies pay attention to that.

 

My advice- see if they'll meet you in the middle, your concerns are reasonable. The Pathfinder point is a good one though, see what your CFI has to say about that. It may all be a moot point.

 

The "program" is 300 hours total time and a job. Under that condition, it makes 30 hours of PIC time not as important, as a good relationship with the school, instructor and DPE. Helicopter Academy has since offered to cover the cost of getting this student to his checkride.

[TXFirefly]

The "program" is 300 hours total time and a job. Under that condition, it makes 30 hours of PIC time not as important, as a good relationship with the school, instructor and DPE. Helicopter Academy has since offered to cover the cost of getting this student to his checkride.

[deerock]

any more time, that's not PIC, I wouldn't spend the $ at all.

[Eggbeater]

The "program" is 300 hours total time and a job. Under that condition, it makes 30 hours of PIC time not as important, as a good relationship with the school, instructor and DPE. Helicopter Academy has since offered to cover the cost of getting this student to his checkride.

 

*klaxon horns in the background* Damage control, damage control!

[zero610]

I just wanted to follow up on my OP. The poster above is correct, Helicopter Academy has offered to help out with my concerns over the checkride (and the boatpix this weekend is moot anyway due to the weather). I spoke with my instructor and the school's manager who were both helpful in getting everything addressed. I'm looking forward to my future time with them.

 

Additionally, everyone's comments were extremely helpful. I appreciate the advice and experience of others. Thanks again.

[RotorME]

Every flight is good experience even if you cant log PIC. You will get the required hours you need to log PIC soon enough. Enjoy the process as much as you can.. It is a difficult journey to get to Commercial, then CFI/CFII then on to the next job. I remember being so concerned about getting my Private add-on in the minimums and then Commercial at 150 that I forgot to enjoy the process of learning and becoming a better thinker in the air and on the ground. Stick with your school. Be extra diligent..it will pay off in the long run. Remember..dont be in a hurry. You will get there!

[r22butters]

Don't do any boat flying until you have your Private!

 

When you try to move on to your first turbine job, they will want at least 1000hrs PIC. The more hours you have before your Private the more you'll need to get that first job.

 

When I flew with them, there was another guy there in your situation, and none of us understood why he was wasting so much money on non-PIC time?

 

Sure its good experience, but this is a very expensive industry. Get all you can for your money!

[rick1128]

The big advantage to going to the 'regular" examiner is that he is less likely to fail you than an unfamiliar examiner. Examiners need to fail a certain number of students and it's human nature that a 'new' examiner will be tougher on a student to set an 'example.' Sure, it's discrimination but who's to monitor that?

 

While there are rumors out there about quotas. There are none. Having taken part in DPE/Check Airmen meetings with FSDO's, I can state there is NO official quota. If there was one, it would come out and people would be administratively 'hung'. The offical policy is that if you meet the requirements of the PTS, you pass. Enough applicants mess up without the FAA having an official policy. Check-itis, screwing the pooch, etc. The FSDO's will look at DPE's who issue no failure notices, as they do stand out. However, the FSDO's would consider the whole picture. Some schools do quite well in preparing their applicants. As for a 'new' DPE being tougher, not really. Since DPE's, despite the reputation that they are 'GODS', are human and have their own ideas on what they like to see on the conduct of maneuvers. DPE's are not testing machines, they are human. And instructors tend to pattern their training toward specific examiners.

 

As am example, several years ago, I was taking a type ride with a DPE, who was being observed by his POI so he could be authorized to conduct these type rides in the future. And since the POIn was not qualified in this aircraft, he was being observed by a FAA National Resource. Can we spell pressure, boys and girls? And I still managed to pass.

[Eggbeater]

While there are rumors out there about quotas. There are none. Having taken part in DPE/Check Airmen meetings with FSDO's, I can state there is NO official quota.

 

Back when I was an instructor, I received a letter from the FSDO stating that my pass rate had fallen below 70% and that I would be up for a review with an examiner. Only problem was that it was their mistake and my pass rate was much higher than that. Still, getting the letter was a surprise...

[Boatpix]

He takes his checkride on Monday and after that it will all be PIC. The non-PIC time in question is the the flight to the checkride and that's not 30 hours its a couple. If he were to find himself later in his career at 270 hours and he's looking at a job that requires 300 hours perhaps he would have a different opinion then than now with respect to the 30 hours that's really just a couple anyway. There are a lot of folks at CFII and 200 hours without jobs. I think our program of training to 300 hours and CFI and giving a student that trains with us a bonus of 200 hours works well for them. This student chose to pay hourly by credit card so that he sees every hour individually rather than in a group. Perhaps if he was on the four phased quarterly payments that we normally do he would simply see that he's quickly building thirty hours towards the 300 hours he needs for our insurance. As the school manager I decided to wave the charges now for the hours going into the checkride but he'll be billed for those at the end when we make sure he has 300 hours. Our program remains at $65,000 and this gets him to 300 hours. You might have noted that he's not flying an "R22" as he's flying an R44 Astro until he gets his private and then he'll be transitioned into an R22. The 'program' he's talking about can be found at www.HelicopterAcademy.com and the first 100 hours are $250/hour and then it drops down to $200/hour and finishes with the last 100 hours at $150/hour. You can transfer from another school at any time, too. We fly the most in the summer on the BOATPIX photo program. You can also call me at 561-346-2816 as I'm the manager of the program.