r22butters Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 The hell with paying dues anyways, I have more of a performance based opinion on the matter. If I deserve a job because I am an awesome pilot I should get the job for being an awesome pilot So, how did you get your first job as a pilot? 1 Quote
aclark79 Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I've never heard of that before. Which companies have you applied to or heard of that will reimburse your travel expenses for a job interview? PHI. Quote
Guest Maximinious Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) ... Edited July 30, 2011 by Maximinious Quote
clay Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I've never heard of that before. Which companies have you applied to or heard of that will reimburse your travel expenses for a job interview? ERA Quote
DieselBoy Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I've never heard of that before. Which companies have you applied to or heard of that will reimburse your travel expenses for a job interview? Sorry, I do not want to mention the names of different flight schools that I know do this, but you may find some just by asking around. Soon after that I interviewed with a different flight school that booked my flight for me, shuttle, rental car, and hotel. And I never had to ask for it. That is the type of person I am and the kind of company I want to work for. If I am ever in the position to hire a CFI and I require they come to me, I will at least pay for their flight. If the company won't pay for it, I'll pay for it out of my own pocket. $400 has a higher value to a "broke" CFI than it does to a company that won't do a phone interview. My main point is that at least Old City is upfront about their position and salary. Imagine how upset you would be if you had flown down there and then found this out! I may not agree with the pay scale and term "full time" but it's a very rare job for a 200 hr pilot without instructing and I think that is great! Most CFI positions you see being posted now want 500+ hours. Quote
Guest Maximinious Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) ... Edited July 30, 2011 by Maximinious Quote
r22butters Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 You can think what ever you want, but a 200 hour pilot should not be flying tours. Thanks not enough time in the air to have the responsibility of 3 lives in your vessel... That's the biggest line of bullshit I've ever read! 5 Quote
IRAPILOT79 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 You guys need to understand that this co. is bound by gov/state wage and time laws. they must pay you for overtime and allow at least a 1\2 hour lunch break after 4 hrs if they require you to be there at set times. These people will screw you if you let them. Quote
Azhigher Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 That's the biggest line of bullshit I've ever read! I agree 100%. As for not having to pay your dues, let me know how well that all works out for ya Max. 3 Quote
Guest Maximinious Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) ... Edited July 30, 2011 by Maximinious 1 Quote
Gomer Pylot Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Max is absolutely right. With 200 hours most pilots haven't even started to get a clue, much less know much about flying. The tragedy is that pilots with those hours are teaching new pilots how to fly. It's the classic 'blind leading the blind' scenario, and it's dangerous. In a perfect world, those new pilots would be flying as SIC with experienced pilots and learning how to fly, but the world isn't perfect. We get what we get, and will continue to do so, because everyone wants cheap at any price. It's a badly flawed system, but I don't know how to change it. 2 Quote
NorCalHeliKid Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Truck driver in the sky... we just entered the long running debate of whether pilots should sacrifice for the greater pilot pool by refusing to accept low paying jobs...fact is, someone will always take that job and run with it. All it takes is one pilot who sees his opportunity calling and takes it. Doesnt bother me, a mans gotta do....especially in this economy. 1 in 10 is unemployed, more than that on Govt assistance. 1 Quote
helonorth Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) It really doesn't sound like that bad of a deal. It sounds like you only work four days a week. I would have liked to have made $300 many weeks while I was an instructor! We all know that after paying all that money for your ratings, you are just getting started. As I have said before, the hardest part of the whole experience is getting by while teaching (or doing something like this). Airplanes aren't any different. As far as experience goes, I don't think any numbers support the view that low time instructors are dangerous. Any idiot can fly a helicopter. It's not that complicated. Edited July 16, 2011 by helonorth Quote
Azhigher Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 If your wife wanted to go for a helicopter ride and you had the choice of having her fly with a 200 hour pilot that has merely 20 hours of flying a helicopter without his instructor holding his weenis OR... a 400 hour pilot that has 200 hours of flying while he is running the show, which one would you have her fly with? I'd say it has much more to do with the pilot's attitude rather than the hours he/she has. I'm fine getting in a helicopter with someone who is a serious pilot and cares about the job he/she does even if they only have 200 hours. On the other hand, I would avoid a company who employed a 1000 hour pilot who thought he was God's gift to aviation like the plague. I see where you're coming from though. While more flight hours doesn't necessarily mean a higher skill level, one would hope it at least means more maturity. 1 Quote
helonorth Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) I'd say it has much more to do with the pilot's attitude rather than the hours he/she has. I'm fine getting in a helicopter with someone who is a serious pilot and cares about the job he/she does even if they only have 200 hours. On the other hand, I would avoid a company who employed a 1000 hour pilot who thought he was God's gift to aviation like the plague. I see where you're coming from though. While more flight hours doesn't necessarily mean a higher skill level, one would hope it at least means more maturity.That's what I'm talking about. I know plenty of high time pilots that have very poor judgement, in my opinion. I also have flown with a lot of low time instructors that were very good. Any competent and safety conscious 200 hour pilot will have no problem teaching or giving tours. As you said, the pilot that has the cowboy attitude is the one you have to watch out for. And they are at every level.I also think that is the first time I heard a helicopter called a "vessel"! Edited July 16, 2011 by helonorth Quote
r22butters Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) I've had enough of this crap, I'm going over to that other post and look at Daffy again,...I need a good laugh. Edited July 16, 2011 by r22butters 1 Quote
d10 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I would argue that a pilot who feels comfortable with that kind of responsibility at 200 hours is showing the kind of dangerous attitude that you should be trying to avoid. It's enough to have the basics down but you'll run into so many situations beyond 200 hours that CFIs can't prepare you for and you can't expect no matter how smart or safety-oriented you are. There's no substitute for experience and if you don't believe that or if you think at 200 hours you've got enough of it I wouldn't trust you to fly me around safely. Quote
helonorth Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I did it at 200 hours. I felt comfortable at 200 hours. There really aren't any situations you won't be prepared for giving tours. After 4,000 hours, I'm still waiting for all these situations (that haven't happened) that all my experience is supposed to help me with. Follow the rules, always know which way the wind is blowing, stay out of the weather and you will have few problems. I guess I was supposed to feel uncomfortable giving rides at 200 hours! Oh, well. 2 Quote
DieselBoy Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 OR... a 400 hour pilot that has 200 hours of flying while he is running the show How did the 400hr pilot build his extra 200 hours? Someone had to of given them their big break at 200 hours and they had to of been PIC of something when they only had 200 hours. True, a 200 hour pilot isn't the best pilot out there, but that doesn't mean they aren't capable. It's like your first solo, are you completely capable to perform all emergency procedures when you solo at 20 hours? Probably not, but you have to instill trust in these pilots. The golden rule is that your CFI license is a license to learn and it's true, we can't change that. As mentioned above, a pilots attitude says more than the hours they have. Would I fly with that R44 jackass in South America with no shoes, so seatbelt, and no doors on? Hell no! lol Quote
HELICOLT Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 All of the these examples prove what is wrong with this industry... Everyone wants to blame it on everyone else. The it is very sad that the norm in this industry has come to low pay, sh!ty hours, and undercutting of fellow pilots. Do you think a doctor would go through school to make $7.50 an hour to "pay his dues" NO, No one in their right mind would. I have been very selective with jobs I have taken to build hours and have no had to lower my standards and don't plan on it.. I pity who ever lands this marvelous opportunity, you might not care about your dignity but you should care about your life!! Be safe and hope all is well... Quote
helonorth Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Doctors do internships for several years and I don't think there is much for pay. Also, we are not doctors. Being a 200 hour pilot and being "selective" equals "unemployed". This isn't anything new, either. 4 Quote
rigidhead Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 You can think what ever you want, but a 200 hour pilot should not be flying tours. Thanks not enough time in the air to have the responsibility of 3 lives in your vessel. Most companies want 500 hours because the pilot has a little more experience under his belt. Remember, out of the first 200 hours as a newbee pilot, its likely that 7/8 of that time is with an experienced instructor on board. I'm not doubting that there may be an exception to this, but very unlikely. MAX, And on average,how many hours did that "experienced" instructor have?If he is flying tours, he isn't doing drill moves in the mountains at those hours or some other such job. And if 200Hrs. is not enough to fly tours, why is it enough to have a licence? Food for thought. Regards, Rigidhead 1 Quote
Guest Maximinious Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) ... Edited July 30, 2011 by Maximinious 2 Quote
Shaun Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Do you think a doctor would go through school to make $7.50 an hour to "pay his dues" NO, No one in their right mind would. My best friend just finished med school it is a million time more terrible then anything aviation. He paid to work 30 hour shifts installing rectal tube after rectal tube. He drank so much coffee that he shat himself on a regular basis. After his 8 years of school, his residency pays $50,000 per year for the next five years, which isn't much to pay the loans. Then maybe he chooses surgery, works those same hours and gets one day off a month until he retires/dies from caffeine overdose. Quote
HELICOLT Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) lol sounds like your buddy got screwed?? I have a cousin and best friend that both went the doctor route and were making $150,000 their first year out and have never looked back.. Everyone doesn't get the same breaks in life. You guys can keep applying for these piss on jobs and taking the low pay, but you people are the ones hurting the industry because you have no standards.. I waited two years before I landed my first avaition job and it has been a long ride, but I have never lowered myself to being someones slave ( for a better term) My whole point is that I wish companys would have a little pressure to start treating their pilots better instead of ten more people waiting to take the dive Edited July 17, 2011 by HELICOLT 3 Quote
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