Solo cross country

[Helipilot PTK]

Hello everyone,

 

I am going to go on my solo cross country (if the weather ever clears up <_ about a week from now and would like some advice. for of my checkpoints i am using power lines railroad tracks that appear on the sectional. is this reliable checkpoint to know what you guys use than gps coarse src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_rolleyes.gif" alt=":rolleyes:"> ) any advice greatly appreciated.

 

-Josh

[Tarantula]

The downside to powerlines and railroad tracks is you don't always know exactly where along the tracks you are. I'd recommend using intersections of waypoints, or fixed points like towers, land features, racetracks etc that are on the sectional.

[helonorth]

I would agree, railroad tracks and power lines are not the best. The bigger the landmark the better. Use lakes, towns and rivers, even if they are somewhat off the route.

[Mikemv]

H PTK, keep in mind that what is on the chart should be on the ground but what is on the ground is not always on the chart.

 

Also, if your heli has a VOR have your CFI teach you how to find your position along a radial from a VOR that is left or right of your course line!

 

And, note your time off and ground speed and know (SA) approximately where you should be time/distance wise. Maybe mark 15 or 30 minute points on your course line to verify both speed and position.

 

And, remember the higher you are the more you see. Use prominent terrain features for your route of flight!

 

Can you fly the course in a simulator first?

 

Be Safe,

 

Mike

[Wally]

Hello everyone,

 

I am going to go on my solo cross country (if the weather ever clears up )in about a week from now and would like some advice. For some of my checkpoints I am using power lines and railroad tracks that appear on the sectional. Is this a reliable checkpoint? would like to know what you guys use (other than gps of coarse ) any advice greatly appreciated.

 

-Josh

 

Major highways in unique situations work in that case. Problems surface when you're in an area where there's more than one road that looks like another. Until you've been 'uncertain', let's say, of your position, you don't realize how much one divided highway looks like another. Eight miles from my point of departure, in an area I knew very well, screwing around for a while in limited vis, picked out a road and point I thought I recognized, turned on course to find that I was paralleling instead of crossing the road as I should have been. It's kind of like spatial disorientation....

Me, I like large cultural features- towns, stadiums, etc., uniquely shaped and sized with distinctive right of ways (and water towers). As I fly, I keep a running position on a sectional, identifying the town as so-and-so, should see such-and-such off the to the right (left), 'X' miles in 'Y' minutes.

Scary bit of info- towers are not always exactly represented on sectionals. Never seen one more than 3 miles from depicted, but 3 miles is a lot in 1 mile vis.

Set boundaries, too, so you'll have big clear indicators that you have a nav error and which way to go when you see it. Atlanta to Savannah, for instance, the Atlantic would clue me that I've gone too far SE, I'll turn left or right for the most distinctive landmark to locate myself...

[Helipilot PTK]

Thanks for all the replies, unfortunately the heli I fly doesn't have a vor, and have no simulator to try it out. I have flown the coarse before with my CFI for the duel cross country, I just would like to be more prepared this time. We do have a GPS in the heli but I would like to learn the good ole fashin way and have the GPS more of a back up just in case anything happens. on another not lets say you get of course by a decent amount and you have no GPS or VOR, would you just fly to the nearest city/landmark and go from there with the sectional, turn around and try to get back on course, or if possible get vectored in from ATC? just a thought. If this has been answered before I apologize.

 

-Josh

[Helipilot PTK]

Sorry you already answered my post I was typing before I could see your post

[rodrop]

Is Flight Following an option?

[Karl]

I haven't tried this yet but how about flying the route in Google Earth?

Google Earth Route flying

[silvrado17]

Similar to what Wally said, place tick marks on the sectional periodically of points you pass over...you may need to go back to those points if you loose your awareness. "Last Known Position".

 

Altitude dependent, I would recommend major check points every 10-20 nm (with Time/Distance/Headings), with smaller "situational awareness/on course" checkpoints for the tick marks every 3-7nm...this is a TECHNIQUE only!!! Rely on your own CFI for nav training.

 

Another technique taught in Army flight school is the use of barriers. Plot your course on the sectional, and as you plan a course change at any of the prominent landmarks or other features mentioned in this thread, find something beyond/past your turn point to use as the barrier (river, road, time/distance from a course enroute point, etc). That way if you do inadvertently miss your "prominent" turn point, you should at least see your barrier & turn back before you end up in Timbuktu.

 

 

Good Luck!

[rick1128]

Sometimes it really depends on where you are operating. Where I did my initial training, some of the routes we used have very few good check points, so you sort to have to live with what you have. Which is one of the reasons they call it dead reckoning navigation. While just a road or railroad tracks crossing your course is not the best fix, matching it with terrain or other nearby feature does work. From what I have been seeing recently, are students getting too used to having a GPS and having problems whenever the GPS becomes inoperative or unusable for whatever reason.

 

Enjoy your flight

[Helipilot PTK]

Thank you all for the awesome advice! I will definitely be making some changes to my flight plan.

[kodoz]

Just echoing a few things already said:

• What is on the map may not be on the ground. Flying out of Boise there was a set of RR tracks that seemed like a good landmark...but they'd been removed years ago.
  
• Barriers. If I don't cross the mountains/water/freeway, then I know I haven't overshot my destination/entered a prohibited area/entered class B airspace...
  
• There's no single good checkpoint. A lighted tower at night might be invisible during the day. A road in the desert is great, maybe not so useful in a heavily wooded area.
  
• When using roads, powerlines, and railroads, you do have to cross check them with something else. Look for bends, intersections, or secondary checkpoints along them to see where you are.
  
• Get into the habit of starting a stop watch or the clock when you depart. This plus your heading is dead reckoning, and if you're ever in doubt, you should be able to use the time on the clock to get an idea where you are.
  
• Put tick marks every 10 or so NM along your route. Then every 8 or so minutes, you can look around, see what you see, then cross check with your map.
  

Good luck. The solo cross-country is a fun one to do.

[Helipilot PTK]

Rick that is exactly what I don't want to happen with me, I would like to learn the hard dead reckoning way first then get to comfortable with GPS (even though GPS is awesome ), then I will always have something to go back on if the time ever comes. If there is any good books about this that you guys have read I am all ears.

 

-Josh

[Maggie]

I agree with what was said on here, and google earth it. It helps a lot! I didn't use the flight part, I just started at my airport, and it gives you the direction that you're going, so I just paired it up with my flight plan just so I had an idea of what stuff looked like from the altitudes I was flying (I used it before a checkride), it helped me get an idea for diversions/emergency ops too. Good luck! I learned a lot on my solo XC!

[Spike]

Checkpoints are used to mark, and confirm your flight planning and not really used as a navigation aid (although it aids in navigation).

 

You should be navigating once you depart and constantly throughout the flight. Checkpoints are things easily identifiable on the charts to mark your progress such as ETE, ETA, fuel burn and winds. Sectional charts usually provide all the information you need to establish a checkpoint. Normally, I suggest using 3 independent markers to establish the checkpoint as this provides redundancy to becoming lost. Simply put, if you can’t find 3 of the 3 markers, then consider yourself lost…… After that, time for implementing lost procedures with the 5 C’s, starting with cuss……

[Helipilot PTK]

I downloaded Google earth and it is very nice although I am still trying to figure out a few things. I also downloaded the sectional chart overlay for it to...It's kick a$$! And Spike are you saying for every checkpoint have 3 visual ques? As in your using a highway for a checkpoint, so you then have a VOR on the right, tower on left, and a race track a mile in front. Is that a good example or am I off? I am just trying to clear things up. I have it scheduled for this Friday (weather permitting) should be a great time.

 

-Josh

[SBuzzkill]

You want multiple things so that you know what you're seeing is actually what you're seeing.

 

For example, down south there are tons of water towers. To simply pick a water tower as your checkpoint is unreliable because for all you know you could be at the tower 10 miles down the road. But if you pick a water tower that is adjacent to a mill, which is 500m north of a distinctive hilltop... Hard to miss.

[Helipilot PTK]

Success,

 

I had my solo cross country on Friday and it went great! I learned the hard way on some of the checkpoints I picked. I couldn't find a few of them, between that and messing up one radio transmission to a neighboring airports airspace I was flying through everything went good. I knew where I was most the time on the sectional and occasionally looked on the GPS to confirm I was on the right track. Thanks for the input as it helped me greatly.

 

 

On a side note, Does anyone on VR fly in Michigan? just wondering if I am the only one up here

 

 

-Josh