Anyone Have a Easy to Read Breakdown of SFAR-73

[Rotortramp]

Hopefully I don't get too much flack for asking this. I know it has probably been brought up countless times on here. All I could find were specific questions answered in regards to someones relative situation. Just curious if someone has a link to an easy to read breakdown of SFAR-73 for quick reference. I was speaking to an instructor yesterday who hit on points, and while it all made relative sense during the time, the numbers are somewhat running together in my head at the moment.

 

In my personal case the end goal is the ability to instruct in the R44, so I believe this ups the time requirements to 25 hours assuming one has done most of his training in the R22.

 

In any case, if anyone has a link to somewhere that spells it all out just so I can print it out and refer to it from time to time that would be great.

 

Cheers

[kodoz]

Here you go.

[McGavin]

I had the same issue, here is a simplified R-44 breakdown as I understand it (assuming you are already solo in a R-22)

 

1. 200 hours total rotor

2. 50 hours R-44 (25 hours R-22 credit can be used)

 

OR

 

1. 10 hours R-44 instruction (5 hours R-22 credit can be used)

2. CFI endorsement in R-44 every 12 months

 

R-22 is basically the same requirements with a note that the CFI endorsement is not interchangeable meaning you will need to do one in each aircraft to fly both.

[DieselBoy]

Sorry, can't help you

Edited October 7, 2012 by DieselBoy

[iChris]

Hopefully I don't get too much flack for asking this. I know it has probably been brought up countless times on here. All I could find were specific questions answered in regards to someones relative situation. Just curious if someone has a link to an easy to read breakdown of SFAR-73 for quick reference. I was speaking to an instructor yesterday who hit on points, and while it all made relative sense during the time, the numbers are somewhat running together in my head at the moment.

 

In my personal case the end goal is the ability to instruct in the R44, so I believe this ups the time requirements to 25 hours assuming one has done most of his training in the R22.

 

In any case, if anyone has a link to somewhere that spells it all out just so I can print it out and refer to it from time to time that would be great.

 

Cheers

I had the same issue, here is a simplified R-44 breakdown as I understand it (assuming you are already solo in a R-22)

 

 

Easiest way to understand the SFAR 73 is to break it down by the progression of the student. I'll give examples for the 44.

 

 

SFAR 73 spells it all out. You’ll need to read it again over-and-over until you’re able to break it down (section by section) and fully understand. The way the regulations are written maybe somewhat different than what you’re accustom to; however, that’s part of the game, if your goal is the ability to instruct. It’s not always easy, you’ll need to put in more study in the area of regulations.

 

How do you know if McGavin and DieselBoy are correct in their interpretation? Does their interpretation meet your personal case?

 

As an instructor students will turn to you for answers. There are no crutches for instructors, they only hand them out.

 

Being able to interpret regulations, as written in the official text, is what the PTS requires of any instructor.

 

FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR

-

Practical Test Standards

I. TASK: REGULATIONS AND PUBLICATIONS

 

REFERENCES: 14 CFR parts 1, 61, 91; NTSB Part 830; AC 00-2; AIM, Rotorcraft Flight Manual.

Objective. To determine that the applicant exhibits instructional knowledge of the elements related to pertinent regulations and publications, their purpose, general content, availability, and method of revision, by describing:

 

1. 14 CFR parts 1, 61, and 91.

2. NTSB Part 830.

3. Flight information publications.

4. Practical Test Standards.

5. Helicopter Flight Manual (as applicable).

Edited October 6, 2012 by iChris

[Rotortramp]

 

 

 

 

SFAR 73 spells it all out. You’ll need to read it again over-and-over until you’re able to break it down (section by section) and fully understand. The way the regulations are written maybe somewhat different than what you’re accustom to; however, that’s part of the game, if your goal is the ability to instruct. It’s not always easy, you’ll need to put in more study in the area of regulations.

 

How do you know if McGavin and DieselBoy are correct in their interpretation? Does their interpretation meet your personal case?

 

As an instructor students will turn to you for answers. There are no crutches for instructors, they only hand them out.

 

Being able to interpret regulations, as written in the official text, is what the PTS requires of any instructor.

 

FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR

-

Practical Test Standards

I. TASK: REGULATIONS AND PUBLICATIONS

 

REFERENCES: 14 CFR parts 1, 61, 91; NTSB Part 830; AC 00-2; AIM, Rotorcraft Flight Manual.

Objective. To determine that the applicant exhibits instructional knowledge of the elements related to pertinent regulations and publications, their purpose, general content, availability, and method of revision, by describing:

 

1. 14 CFR parts 1, 61, and 91.

2. NTSB Part 830.

3. Flight information publications.

4. Practical Test Standards.

5. Helicopter Flight Manual (as applicable).

 

 

Please stay on topic

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding You are absolutely right! I guess I was just being lazy and now is as good as time as ever to start decoding regulations and applying them to myself and whatever custom situation there may be going forward. I was looking for an interpretation to easily understand it being a student still, but it's probably best to ask specific questions versus being spoon fed the entirety.

[iChris]

 

Just kidding You are absolutely right! I guess I was just being lazy and now is as good as time as ever to start decoding regulations and applying them to myself and whatever custom situation there may be going forward. I was looking for an interpretation to easily understand it being a student still, but it's probably best to ask specific questions versus being spoon fed the entirety.

 

Good job Sir... You're on the right road to an outstanding career.

[eagle5]

How do you know if McGavin and DieselBoy are correct in their interpretation? Does their interpretation meet your personal case?

 

As an instructor students will turn to you for answers. There are no crutches for instructors, they only hand them out.

 

Being able to interpret regulations, as written in the official text, is what the PTS requires of any instructor.

 

I've been given incorrect advice on this f'n SFAR plenty of times from both instructors and fellow pilots! The only place to get a solid interpretation, from someone else, is at the Robinson course (take good notes)!

 

Its like he said, read it over and over again until you finally get it, then you can make your own "quick-reference" sheet!

Edited October 6, 2012 by eagle5

[DieselBoy]

My info is correct but I'll just delete it. As a Robinson instructor who has been to the course, I wouldn't want to help someone else....

[McGavin]

Diesel Boy, I felt you post broke it down really well (better than me) and it was easy to read. It's too bad the FAA can't do the same.

 

I have seen many discussions on this forum regarding various FARs with different interpretations from experienced pilots. I know Ichris is the go to guy when it comes to FARs so I'm a bit surprised by his response.

[R22139RJ]

I think the FAR/AIM has something about SFAR 73 to PT 91.

[ridethisbike]

Diesel Boy, I felt you post broke it down really well (better than me) and it was easy to read. It's too bad the FAA can't do the same.

 

I have seen many discussions on this forum regarding various FARs with different interpretations from experienced pilots. I know Ichris is the go to guy when it comes to FARs so I'm a bit surprised by his response.

 

He is, but his goal in that post wasn't to interpret it for the OP. Plus, it seems that DieselBoy answered before iChris needed to break it all down, and iChris posted before DB deleted the post so he may not have known he needed to break it down.

 

Anyways, the goal of his post was to push a potential instructor to use the tools he has available to him to find the answers on his own. And in this case, I think he was correct in doing so. In agreeing with what he did, I'm not surprised he did it. Honestly, I think there should before more of that going on. It's too easy to jump on a forum, or call someone else and get the answer. As pilots we need to be self reliant. Part of that self reliance is being able to interpret the FAR's correctly without outside input.

[supergokougt]

I have a question about instructing in a 44.

(iv) Has been authorized by endorsement from an FAA aviation safety inspector or authorized designated examiner that the instructor has completed the appropriate training, meets the experience requirements and has satisfactorily demonstrated an ability to provide instruction on the general subject areas of paragraph 2(a)(3) of this SFAR, and the flight training identified in paragraph 2((5)(iii) of this SFAR.

Do you need a sign off for both 22 and 44? What if I have plenty of time and a sign off in a 22 and about 40 hours in a 44? Do people still have to go and get a faa or dpe to check out?

Edited December 13, 2013 by supergokougt

[WolftalonID]

Yes. It is your SFAR 73 endorsement to instruct in the specific model.

 

I was lucky I was over 200 hours when I took my CFI check ride, so that check ride legally allowed my DPE to also sign off my instruction endorsement for the 22. I am about to take my CFII ride in a 44 and it will come wih a seperate endorsement for the 44.

[supergokougt]

So yes, no matter what times your have you need one for 22 and a separate one for 44???

 

I was lucky too when I took my check ride I had under 200 I think but over 25 in 44 and used 22 time to get my DPE to give me two separate sign offs that day. I think he made me do a .2 in the 44 and then sign me off.

[Astro]

So yes, no matter what times your have you need one for 22 and a separate one for 44???

 

 

Yes

[iChris]

I have a question about instructing in a 44.

(iv) Has been authorized by endorsement from an FAA aviation safety inspector or authorized designated examiner that the instructor has completed the "appropriate" training, meets the experience requirements and has satisfactorily demonstrated an ability to provide instruction on the general subject areas of paragraph 2(a)(3) of this SFAR, and the flight training identified in paragraph 2((5)(iii) of this SFAR.

Do you need a sign off for both 22 and 44?

 

Being able to interpret regulations, as written in the official text, is what the PTS requires of any instructor. Just quoting from word of mouth is not enough, know the why.

 

PTS Objective. To determine that the applicant exhibits instructional knowledge of the elements related to pertinent regulations and publications, their purpose, general content, availability, and method of revision….

 

The key word in the rule you quoted is: “appropriate”

 

Specifically that means, that which is pertinent and relevant to a particular condition, circumstance, or type aircraft. In this case it’s with regard to training and experience in the R22 or R44.

 

The endorsement must be specific to the requirements of 2[5][ii]. Since the requirements are different for each aircraft, the endorsements must be made specifically for each aircraft, one for the R22 and one for the R44.

 

Note the text, in that you’re asking for an endorsement that you’ve met the experience requirements to instruct in the R22 or R44. If the requirements differ, the endorsements must address each aircraft separately to meet the requirement for the endorsement.

 

2[5][ii]

 

For the Robinson R-22, has had at least 200 flight hours in helicopters, at least 50 flight hours of which were in the Robinson R-22,

 

Or

 

For the Robinson R-44, has had at least 200 flight hours in helicopters, 50 flight hours of which were in Robinson helicopters. Up to 25 flight hours of Robinson R-22 flight time may be credited toward the 50 hour requirement.

Edited December 13, 2013 by iChris

[yzchopper]

The sign offs to instruct are separate and so is doing a flight review to stay current. I got my R44 CFI sign off from Simon at the RHC safety course.

[Carpenter]

Hopefully I don't get too much flack for asking this. I know it has probably been brought up countless times on here. All I could find were specific questions answered in regards to someones relative situation. Just curious if someone has a link to an easy to read breakdown of SFAR-73 for quick reference. I was speaking to an instructor yesterday who hit on points, and while it all made relative sense during the time, the numbers are somewhat running together in my head at the moment.

 

In my personal case the end goal is the ability to instruct in the R44, so I believe this ups the time requirements to 25 hours assuming one has done most of his training in the R22.

 

In any case, if anyone has a link to somewhere that spells it all out just so I can print it out and refer to it from time to time that would be great.

 

Cheers

Interpreting the SFAR's for purposes of the ability to instruct in the R44 is the easy part. What most people don't know is that under Pathfinder insurance, you can not instruct in the R44 unless you have 500 hrs total time, last time I checked. Now you can do other commercial activities with lower times, just specifically can't give instruction. Go figure!

[pilot#476398]

500 hours to teach in the 44? I've never heard that one, but if true it would really suck for anyone doing all their training in one!

[Carpenter]

500 hours to teach in the 44? I've never heard that one, but if true it would really suck for anyone doing all their training in one!

Really suck is an understatement. I spent a lot of money out of pocket to get the SFAR endorsements to be able to give instruction in the R44. Discovering this insurance requirement, Pathfinder only to my knowledge, essentially made me un-employable (instructing world) and sucked the "wind out of my sails". Again, this is only a Pathfinder thing, so if your school/organization insures with them, be aware of this before shelling out tons of money like me. Merry Christmas to all!

Edited December 14, 2013 by Carpenter

[supergokougt]

In my experience, Not true about instructing in the 44 and insurance. I had far less than 500 and I was covered. There are other options out there other than pathfinder. And if they want you they can pay a premium on insurance.

 

 

 

Being able to interpret regulations, as written in the official text, is what the PTS requires of any instructor.

 

Hows that high horse treating you? Cause these things are so clear!?! I am opening this up for a discussion.

 

Note the text, in that you’re asking for an endorsement that you’ve met the experience requirements to instruct in the R22 or R44. If the requirements differ, the endorsements must address each aircraft separately to meet the requirement for the endorsement.

 

Yes, but in that section it does not outline the same specifics. Some people may think that if they got one sign off and meet the requirements that it means they do not have to get two endorsements. Notice the lack of specifics in this section compared to the other.

 

2[5][ii]

 

For the Robinson R-22, has had at least 200 flight hours in helicopters, at least 50 flight hours of which were in the Robinson R-22,

 

Or

 

For the Robinson R-44, has had at least 200 flight hours in helicopters, 50 flight hours of which were in Robinson helicopters. Up to 25 flight hours of Robinson R-22 flight time may be credited toward the 50 hour requirement.

 

See how it makes it very clear for those two?