Some of the other forums...have me concerned...

[DontCallMeShirley]

I won't name where (not vertical reference), but as I browse around some other forums I get somewhat concerned about the nature of the industry. As I am just starting my journey, this forum has been very helpful in reading posts and getting questions answered promptly and respectfully. Seems like a good bunch level headed people who enjoy what they do and always ready to help.

 

I visit another forum and its nothing but bitterness, disdain, and constant ragging on operators and coworkers. Perhaps it's just a way to vent their frustration and only attracts the bad apples, but I see them trashing PHI, Air Methods, etc on a daily basis. Nobody seems happy with what they are doing and seem very disgruntled with their situations.

 

On top of that when people are involved in accidents and fatalities occur (like the recent one in Rockford), this amplifies the attitudes even to the point of insulting the pilot and crew.

 

What is really going on out there? Do people really hate EMS jobs and the crew/operators?

[C of G]

Eh.... it's all about the anonymity. Let someone hide behind a computer screen and you get that. You need a thick pair of bs glasses to not be blinded by it, but there is a lot of truth behind it all, too. You just need to know how to weed through it. It is not an industry for the thin skinned, though.

[zippiesdrainage]

Yeah, you'll find a lot of bitterness below the surface, just like any other job. It doesn't take a lot to upset people and they need to vent. A lot of what you get from someone is based on their attitude, some guys are so happy to just be flying that they don't add fuel to the flames others cause, some are career guys who feel they're owed something, and some are young guys with no other job experience and think that the grass is only greener on the other side. I'm sure if you knew more about the person posting it would be easier to understand where their resentment comes from. Perhaps they got passed over for a promotion and they don't like answering to a younger person or maybe they though they would be doing something else at a certain company and they're mad that they aren't doing those things.

 

It's funny, there are a few hundred CFIs out there with 500 hours thinking that they would give anything to have the job that someone else it complaining about right now. And who knows, maybe it really is a bad job and that CFI will be complaining too about it. I'm in the same spot, I'm researching the job that I would ultimatly love to have in the long run and I see mostly negative reviews online about the place, but I know what I want to do and I know I'll be happy with it when I get it, and perhaps the guys complaining never really wanted the job in the first place. Maybe they just took the job to build up a few more hours before moving on.

 

The 1000-2000 hour jobs seem to get a lot of bad reviews, because a large majority of the pilots there are just using the position to get the hours and don't really want to be there. But the guys who want to be there and love it and plan on sticking with it for a long time, these guys usually don't complain.

[Flying Pig]

I have absolutely NO stats or evidence to support my statement, so here it goes anyway.... I would venture to guess that the overwhelming VAST majority of working helicopter pilots have never even heard of Vertical or Just Helo's.com nor do they spend time posting on those sites. Translation, I would hardly take an internet forum as a pulse of an industry.

[Counterrotate]

I call it "the vocal minority". Most pilots really are happy to have the job and love the job. The ones that don't are the ones you see griping on web forums all the time. Jobs are all about the people you work with. I have had great jobs that sucked because of attitudes and egos, and I have had really crappy jobs that were fun because everyone was positive and we stuck together. At the end of the day, it's all what YOU make of it. And don't think you don't have the power to make a bad job a good one. Attitudes can be changed over time, both bad and good.

[SBuzzkill]

I could come here every day and bitch about something that went on at work that I didn't like. But that stuff is outweighed by the good things so I don't feel a need to focus on them. I love what I do.

[Trans Lift]

Your always gonna get the nay-sayers and whiners and where better to bitch than an anonymous internet forum. You would probably be surprised by the amount of people that comment on there under different names, so essentially could be one person doing a lot of the whining on a certain topic.

 

The majority of us love our jobs and feel privileged to do what we do. Most of us are either too tired from an awesome day at work or out havin a few beers with our co-workers in the evenings instead of being online whining. If you are a hard worker, easy to get on with, safe and have a good attitude you will advance fast and have a great time while your at it.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Trans Lift

[avbug]

It's funny, there are a few hundred CFIs out there with 500 hours thinking that they would give anything to have the job that someone else it complaining about right now.

 

You've got to see both sides of the coin. While the instructors might think they'd give everything to get ahead, bear in mind that many of us who are established or experienced aviators already have given everything to be here.

 

I hear a lot of new students here make demands such as "you owe me; you must mentor me." "How do you expect me to listen to you if you don't cater to me?" Lots of sense of entitlement there. Bear in mind that those of us who have been flying for a few years (or a few decades, as the case may be) don't owe you or anyone else anything. You may hear words of encouragement, or you may hear words of reproof. You may get good counsel, or you may hear some of us vent.

 

I wouldn't forgo any of my past experience, though a certain amount of it has been difficult and even unpleasant, at times. It's all been valuable, and it's been good experience.

 

Listen to those on the bitch boards, but don't listen too closely. I don't even bother with the old board at just helicopters...it's no reflection of reality, and it's people spouting off who wouldn't dare be so foolish or bold in person.

 

Don't enter the industry starry-eyed and blind. It's fine to write fiction and be a dreamer, but it's a dangerous trait to leverage a career against pie-in-the-sky ideas. It's not easy. Everyone and their dog would be doing it, if it were. Your career will require changes, and sacrifice. Know that up front.

 

Know also that it's worth it. How much so is entirely up to you to find out for yourself over time. Nobody can do that for you; it's something you must see on your own.

[gary-mike]

I have absolutely NO stats or evidence to support my statement, so here it goes anyway.... I would venture to guess that the overwhelming VAST majority of working helicopter pilots have never even heard of Vertical or Just Helo's.com nor do they spend time posting on those sites. Translation, I would hardly take an internet forum as a pulse of an industry.

 

I don't disagree, your guess as far as I can see is fairly accurate. That being said, this particular forum is obviously not just filled with washed out pilots that couldn't make it flying. Yes there are a few of them guys, and plenty of overexcited newbies (like myself) that come in trying to participate on every thread. The greatest quality of this forum, in my opinion, is the experienced pilots with a professional attitude and a willingness to share their knowledge. A few names come to mind (not all inclusive): Edspilot, Mikemv, adminLB, DP, Avbug, Spike, ichris, Sbuzzkill, to name a few.

 

I go to JH very rarely, I find the navigation of the site, and the quality of the threads to be "not my style". No matter what forum you like best remember as flying pig said "I would hardly take an internet forum as a pulse of an industry."

[avbug]

Don't forget Nearly Retired. The nearly retired and the retired are a vast resource in aviation that's often overlooked; the crown jewel in the experience base, so to speak.

 

I had an opportunity several days ago to wander into a hangar that housed a scratch built douglas replica...a linen fabric and spruce airplane that looked very similar to the Wright Flyer. The gentleman who built it, long since retired, sat in a chair by the hangar door, holding court for whomever cared to visit. I overstayed, and it was well worth the time to listen and interact with the gentleman, a WWII veteran. His employment is long since over, but his experience is not gone; it's there for anyone who avails themselves of the time to visit, and it's quite likely that few, if any, would go away without having been enlarged and having grown in some way. Resources like that gentleman are dwindling; they're not around forever. They miss the flying, they miss much of what is good about the industry, which includes the association of other aviators, the sound of rotors and propellers in the air, and being accepted as a fellow flyer.

 

For many, these gentlemen cease to be when they stop flying...as if they're no longer aviators. They are still, and always will be aviators; employment or a uniform or a job is a trapping, and not the person.

 

They've something to say. It may be positive, it may be negative. It may be a story that won't be heard again in this lifetime. Whatever it is, it can only be told by that one person, through that person's unique perspective, and one would be sorely remiss in failing to hear it.

[gary-mike]

Nice post Avbug

 

You are right, when posting names I would some great ones and that is why i left it open. Although the names I mentioned are not quite to the point of the character in your post, we all hope to make it that far. There is a definite loss of respect for elders in the younger generations. Youth seem to have the sense that if they do one thing they should get something in return. I have seen it here, and in every other career field I have dealt with. Although many feel that the industry should change, I think the current system helps make the best of the best rise to the top. It has been said the helicopter industry wants to raise the bar of professionalism, well I like to think that the high competition is doing just that. Weather I meet that standard or not, I know it will not be an easy path to take. I will gladly listen to advise from an ol stick, I will pursue flying no matter that advise though, I will just try to go about in the best way I can.

Edited December 12, 2012 by gary-mike

[Nearly Retired]

I've been reading the JH "original" forum since Bill Kellogg owned/ran it, which was a looooong time ago. Its current iteration just sickens me. I find myself checking-in less and less, and when I do I often don't even scroll down more than half the page. In some threads, after I read the first post I do not even expand the rest because I know what it will devolve into. Do people really find this amusing or entertaining? If so, we have some extremely childish pilots in our midst. Sadly, I already knew this, but it is discouraging to see it reinforced over and over and over...

 

The latest round of postings about the BK117 crash just literally makes me sick - makes me ashamed to be a helicopter pilot. The level of callousness and disrespect is disgusting. I am continually astonished that people can be so cruel and unkind to one another, especially their dead compatriots.

 

I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that it would be better if Lyn Burks just shut the original forum down - just shot it in the head and walked away. I know it gets a lot of "hits," and probably generates a lot of advertising revenue for him. But it does not represent us well. Or maybe it does - which is even more disturbing. Either way, he ought to press the big "Delete" button on that one. I, for one, would not shed a single tear.

[Wally]

After I quit partying the first time, I went into my favorite juke joint, and discovered that people get stupider with a few drinks. When I was keeping up, they seemed witty. When I wasn't, they bordered on obnoxious.

 

Some forums are like that- if you're keeping up, they're fun. If you don't want to smell the manure, don't go to the barn.

[Flying Pig]

I would say JH hardly represents any professional pilots I know. Most of the posts I see over there are nothing but dumb one-liners by people who never really seem to offer any discussion on anything worthwhile about the industry

[pilot#476398]

It's funny, there are a few hundred CFIs out there with 500 hours thinking that they would give anything to have the job that someone else it complaining about right now.

 

Yep, for every a**hole complaining about his flying job, there are a dozen burger-flip'n low timers who haven flown since there CFII checkride who would gladly do that job without complaint,...for free even!

 

...but hey, "the grass is always greener..." right?

 

I for one can't wait to start complaining about my flying job!

 

By the way, this internet forum stuff?,..."for entertainment purposes only!"

[Flying Pig]

Everyone has their own reality. What I would have begged to do for free 5 years ago wouldn't get a second thought from me now. I now I am very fortunate to be in that position. I spent years with a certificate in my wallet trying to figure out if I was ever going to get to use it for real!

 

The grass may not always be greener, sometimes the yard is just bigger.

As far as "for entertainment purposes only" Gotta be careful with that. I've made some pretty interesting professional contacts here.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Flying Pig

[pilot#476398]

The grass may not always be greener, sometimes the yard is just bigger.

As far as "for entertainment purposes only" Gotta be careful with that. I've made some pretty interesting professional contacts here

 

For every opinion there is an equal and opposite opinion!

[Flying Pig]

Most of us are either too tired from an awesome day at work

 

HEY!!! I was socked in with rain and fog today...... I had nothing else to do and the bathrooms have already been cleaned!

[Counterrotate]

For every opinion there is an equal and opposite opinion!

 

For every opinion there is a greater than and opposite opinion. Cue avbug...

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[DS_HMMR]

WHO cares?

 

if it doesn't affect your DA or your paycheck. then "scheiß drauf"