Questions about Ag work

[ridethisbike]

More specifically, what is needed to end up as a pilot.

 

I know I need a license, but past that, I'm lost. My main goal here is to setup a plan B in case I don't get hired on at my school upon completion of my training later this year. I have absolutely no qualms working as ground crew for a season or two, if that's what it takes. I just hope I'd be able to stay somewhat proficient (flights on my own time/dime) until the opportunity arises to move up.

 

I live in AZ right now, but will have the ability to move after training.

 

Where do I need to go to find out the requirements to get the license?

 

Obviously a CDL would help me get in the door, but is there a hazmat license I need to/should get as ground crew/driver as well?

 

Would it benefit me to take agricultural college classes?

 

Any other tips you can give me?

 

I just did a google search for Ag companies in AZ. I plan to call/visit them after the holidays to see what it's all about, but it would be nice to have a little background before I go in and make an ass out of myself.

 

I'm not looking for every detail to be laid out for me, but a push in the right direction would be extremely helpful.

 

Thanks guys (and gals)!

[iChris]

I know I need a license, but past that, I'm lost. My main goal here is to setup a plan B in case I don't get hired on at my school upon completion of my training later this year. I have absolutely no qualms working as ground crew for a season or two, if that's what it takes.

 

I'm not looking for every detail to be laid out for me, but a push in the right direction would be extremely helpful.

 

Most major industries, like the helicopter industry with HAI, have their respective websites (Networking Resource).

 

For the aerial application industry, it’s the National Agricultural Aviation Association (NAAA)

 

Take a look around NAAA’s website.

 

CAREERS

 

FAQs

 

NAAA RELEASES 2012 AERIAL APPLICATION SURVEY

 

View Job Listings

 

"Being an ag pilot is one of the most exciting jobs in aviation. It requires tremendous skill and precision and takes a significant amount of training. If you are interested in becoming an ag pilot, NAAA offers a program called Compaass Rose, a series of education sessions in which veteran ag pilots introduce potential recruits to the world of aerial application. Several articles are provided on the menu to the left to give you more information about the industry."

 

Commercial Driver License - CA

Commercial Driver License - AZ

Hazardous Materials Endorsement Add to CDL's

Edited December 18, 2012 by iChris

[apiaguy]

you need to take your ag chemical tests (pesticide/herbicide) depending on the state you want to work. If you look at the State ag web sites they usually have some study materials that you can buy and start learning about what is being applied, where, seasons etc...

Yes, the CDL is important and that is self explanatory... usually just the Hazmat endorsement is necessary but again depends on the state.

I don't see any problem walking into an ag operator and explaining you are interested in working in the business in the future and what steps do you need for their type of outfit...

[ridethisbike]

Awesome. Thanks guys.

 

I'll ring up a couple local operators after the holidays and see what I can get out of them.

[Rotorhead84]

Get your CDL w/ tank and hazmat endorsement and be prepared to drive a truck for a few years. The license to apply the chemicals varies by state and you usually have to carry one for each state you do work in.

[FlyingBuma]

Commercial Driver License - CA

Commercial Driver License - AZ

Hazardous Materials Endorsement Add to CDL's

 

For the CDL:

To drive the truck - At least a class B license with an air brake endorsement. Class A allows you to haul trailers weighing more than 10,000lbs.

To haul liquids (fuel or chemicals) - tanker endorsment

To haul hazardous material (like fuel and chemicals) - hazmat endorsement

 

The worst part of the hazmat endorsement is geting fingerprinted and having a federal background check done. Takes time and $$$$.....

 

MGB

CDL A with tanker, hazmat and double/tripple endorsments

[FlyingBuma]

Yes, the CDL is important and that is self explanatory... usually just the Hazmat endorsement is necessary but again depends on the state.

 

Don't forget the tanker endorsement. That is required to haul liquids.....

 

MGB

[avbug]

If you want to fly, fly. If you want to drive, drive.

 

The old method of working into ag involved flagging and mixing and driving, but that's changed over the years. I began my ag flying career as a teen. Things were different then.

 

I don't have a commercial driving license. I fall asleep driving...not going to do that.

 

Ag work isn't entry level work. It's definitely not what you fall back to if you can't get a job flight instructing.

[ridethisbike]

I understand completely why you say it's not entry level work because realistically, it's not. But for the sake of argument, why do people keep saying it's a valid option? What do you consider entry level work?

 

I fully intend on exhausting every option I can, if I don't get picked up by my flight school, to be picked up by another. It would be nice to have a plan B. I've heard plenty of people say Ag was an option if you're willing to sit on the ground for a season or two. If you know of a different fall back, I'm all ears.

[ridethisbike]

I also feel I should note that the military is an option I'm considering, but that is the absolute last ditch effort kinda thing. If I can avoid it, I will.

[Trans Lift]

I don't think any job is worth exposure to some of the chemicals and toxic sh*t that is used in spraying. I did it for a while. I know if done right, you can protect yourself from chemicals with PPE but who knows what the long term effects are. Down the road, do you think it might be worth the risk for some flight time?

[ridethisbike]

If it's the only option I have left, then yes, I do.

[eagle5]

I understand completely why you say it's not entry level work because realistically, it's not. But for the sake of argument, why do people keep saying it's a valid option? What do you consider entry level work?

 

I fully intend on exhausting every option I can, if I don't get picked up by my flight school, to be picked up by another. It would be nice to have a plan B. I've heard plenty of people say Ag was an option if you're willing to sit on the ground for a season or two. If you know of a different fall back, I'm all ears.

 

People keep saying its a valid option because (as the rumor mill goes) ag companies will hire a pilot to do ground work, then move him into flying after a couple seasons. No other operators out there will do that with us low timers!

 

I'm sure you've already heard this, but the best "plan B" is a college degree in a field that "actually" needs more people, however, a "plan C" will probably be to just get in your car, and drive around the country looking for CFI work?

 

Personally, building a handful of hours isn't worth exposing myself to such poisonous chemicals as they use in ag work! Also, from what I've read, you don't fly much either, so it could take several years to build enough time to move out?

 

I'd stick with teaching, hoping to find an R44 tour gig along the way!

[ridethisbike]

Well, I suppose it's more of a Plan T than anything. Teaching is obviously the first choice, but it seems like if you aren't 10 steps ahead in this industry, your rotors are about to stall...

[Lindsey]

I also feel I should note that the military is an option I'm considering, but that is the absolute last ditch effort kinda thing. If I can avoid it, I will.

 

Just as an FYI, with the combination of budget cuts and the drawdown in Afghanistan, yearly flying minimums for Army helicopter pilots are rapidly dwindling down to ~100 hours/year, and that's not an exaggeration. All I'm trying to say is, it's probably not a good idea if you're just looking to build time. Hope that helps.

[ridethisbike]

Just as an FYI, with the combination of budget cuts and the drawdown in Afghanistan, yearly flying minimums for Army helicopter pilots are rapidly dwindling down to ~100 hours/year, and that's not an exaggeration. All I'm trying to say is, it's probably not a good idea if you're just looking to build time. Hope that helps.

 

Unfortunately, I am well aware. Towards the beginning of my flight training I spoke with an LT on this forum about army aviating. He said he was on track for about 150 hours that year. Like I said, last ditch effort.

[avbug]

I also feel I should note that the military is an option I'm considering, but that is the absolute last ditch effort kinda thing. If I can avoid it, I will.

 

Quite an attitude.

 

Ag work is second plan to flight instructing? You're aware that ag work isn't entry level work, right?

 

Military is second fiddle to nothing? You're aware that it's a damn fine career, and considered by many to be some very valuable training and experience, right?

 

Many of us view ag work as a career, as in it's not a bottom-of-the-barrel, will-do-it-if-I-can't-find-anything-else life, or lifestyle.

 

I don't think any job is worth exposure to some of the chemicals and toxic sh*t that is used in spraying.

 

That's what common sense is for. Stay upwind. Problem solved.

 

I did it for a while. I know if done right, you can protect yourself from chemicals with PPE but who knows what the long term effects are.

 

Personal protection equipment isn't necessary if it's done properly. I have never worn a respirator while doing ag work, and have never needed one. Ag work is common sense work.

 

Down the road, do you think it might be worth the risk for some flight time?

 

Risk for flight time? How about career choice for a living?

 

Flight time shouldn't be the reason anyone gets into ag, because it will "build" more slowly there than just about anywhere.

 

What do you consider entry level work?

 

Work that doesn't require experience and sound judgement to keep from getting killed. Flight instruction is entry level work. Ag flying is not. You won't be spending a lot of time looking up at powerlines (or ending up beneath them) while training a student. You won't be avoiding standpipes or checking fields to identify insects or plants while working with a student. You won't be doing a lot of your work in close proximity to powerlines obstacles, and other while working with a student. Most everyone flight instructs, and it's a traditional entry level job. Ag is not.

 

Just as an FYI, with the combination of budget cuts and the drawdown in Afghanistan, yearly flying minimums for Army helicopter pilots are rapidly dwindling down to ~100 hours/year, and that's not an exaggeration.

 

A lot of ag pilots don't do much better.

[stearmann4]

Unfortunately, I am well aware. Towards the beginning of my flight training I spoke with an LT on this forum about army aviating. He said he was on track for about 150 hours that year. Like I said, last ditch effort.

I think what some of you may be missing when looking to the military as a time building option is that while you may not be flying as much as your R-22 counterpart in the civilian world, you are still accumulating at least 150hrs a year of turbine time in addition to the $250,000 of flight training and while you're not flying you are still getting paid 60K+ a year. Put that in comparison to the guy/gal who broke into their first entry level helicopter job and has 80K in student loans to pay off for the next 10 years. Ag flying is anything but entry level, and the pay (at least for fixed wing) reflects this. There's a lot of ag pilots laughing at the airline industry right now. Mike-

[avbug]

I may have relayed this story before, but many years ago I was on a river trip during a day off, with the vice president of a heavy tanker company. I was flying right seat that year. About fifteen or so of us were on the boat, and somewhere on the river a pretty blonde seated opposite us asked what we did for a living . My compadre told her as best he could. She asked the invevitable "do you guys hope to fly for the airlines some day?"

 

I looked at him to see what he would say, and he seemed a little lost for words. He stammered "Well, that would be..a...step...down." I nearly fell out of the boat, I was laughing so hard. He was right.

 

I've done the heavy iron thing, and went skipping around the globe in big airplanes. It's a reduced skill set, and it's not nearly as rewarding as enjoying the trees and the fields and the earth up close. Sometimes, ag work pays better, too. The big difference is that airline flying is entry level. Ag is not.

[ridethisbike]

Ha! That's pretty damn funny!

 

Anyways, point taken. I'll forget about ag, for the time being. I still feel like it would be an enjoyable job in the future. Is it unheard of for someone to ride along for a while, just to see what it's REALLY all about? There's got to be a ton I could learn about piloting in general from a ride along like that.

 

 

As far as the military goes, I spent 8 years in the army already. I'm well aware of the pay and benefits that come along with it. *MY* experience is that the military is far from stable. While I was in I deployed three times and spent countless days, weeks, months in the field doing training. It was never predictable. Matter of fact, my second deployment was announced to us by CNN while we were in the field doing a month and a half long training exercise. Our command claimed to know nothing about it. Not sure this information matters, but it was for the surge of 2007.

 

I know being a pilot can be just as bad, but at least I have the option. I can choose a job that will keep me moving, keep me home, or at least have predictable schedules (GOM). And by keep me home, I mean I get to go home every night, wherever that home may be at the time. My experience with the military is nothing like that.

[avbug]

Riding along n general is not possible. When operated for ag, aircraft are generally restricted-category. Among other limitations, one is prohibited from carrying non-essential personnel.

[Rotorhead84]

I don't think any job is worth exposure to some of the chemicals and toxic sh*t that is used in spraying. I did it for a while. I know if done right, you can protect yourself from chemicals with PPE but who knows what the long term effects are. Down the road, do you think it might be worth the risk for some flight time?

 

 

This is how we separate the men from the boys

[pilot#476398]

This is how we separate the men from the boys

 

...or the practical from the desperate!

[apiaguy]

The real workers from the bus drivers

[Rotorhead84]

...or the practical from the desperate!

 

 

30k a month sounds pretty practical to me.