The Importance of Networking

[Nearly Retired]

Avbug, in post #41:

 

I've had enough of this stupidity, so he can continue to have his senile rants. At his age, he ought to be ashamed of his behavior, but to his discredit, is not. I'm done with him, however.

 

And then...

 

You might as well lock it up again, brightspark.

 

 

 

 

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH-DI-BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

 

 

 

If that troubles you, I'm glad.

 

Wait- I thought you were "done" with me? So...ahhh, you're really not a man of your word, are you? Why am I not surprised. And to think, a man of the cloth!

 

And AGAIN with the personal attacks! Here I am, just trying to get a conversation started about networking, and you keep dragging the thread off in other directions!

 

You know, I don't go into threads you start and make irrelevant, insulting comments. I'd appreciate the same courtesy! (Do you actually start any threads? Or do you just inject your "wisdom" in other people's threads?)

 

Yes, gramps, I'm sure you have been in aviation longer than I have. Good for you. Did you know that there's this thing called the turbine engine that's been invented? It's way cool, dude! (Okay, that was gratuitous; I should really stop with the age "jokes." He's way older than me, we get it. Waaaaaaaay older.)

 

Oh, and look. For the umpteenth time, I did *NOT* say that your kidney stones were a plague from God. Jeebus! Nope, I said that if *I* were afflicted with them, then they would come from God. There's a difference. Avbuggy, whatever caused *your* kidney stones, I have no idea. God only knows. Maybe He looked down and said to Himself, "Let's teach this guy a thing or two about karma." I don't know. And frankly, I don't care.

 

 

You're the one mouthing off, making threats, making demands, tossing insults with abandon, and levying judgement, as well as promoting lies...

 

Mouthing off, check!...threats, check!...demands, check!...insults with reckless abandon, double-check!...wait...and promoting lies?? WTF? NO CHECK! I've said a lot of sh*t, but I haven't said *anything* that wasn't true - as far as I know. Lies! Now that really hurts me, son. I may do a lot of things, but I do not lie.

 

But I'm sure that was just the pain talking...maybe physical but perhaps emotional. Either way, you do seem to be in a lot of pain. (You and I should go get drunk sometime and then you can open up to me and talk about what's hurting you. I'm a really good listener! But you'll have to come down here to Pensacola and no, you cannot sleep on my couch.) And so I forgive you for saying those things to me, Avbug ol' buddy ol' pal. Heh, *I* forgive *you*. That's kind of ironic, dontcha think?...you being a priest and all and usually being the one asked to dispense forgiveness. Must feel weird coming from the other side this time.

 

Finally, Father Avbug, we will leave this thread with more of your very own words.

 

 

I am under no moral, legal, ethical, contractual, or other requirement to help anyone. No one is entitled. If you feel such an obligation, then knock yourself out. I owe nothing, and if I help someone, it's because I elect to do so, not because I'm under any condemnation for not doing so, and not because I am so obligated.

 

You should add that as your sig line! That way everyone would know just what kind of guy you are.

 

Okay, can we all move on over to the "Networking 2.0" thread? However, I really have nothing constructive to add to it, so I won't.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

[apiaguy]

Wait for it.... Wait for it....!

[Counterrotate]

Damnit, ran out of popcorn about half-way through NR's rant. Guess I'll have to finish it later. Or not...

[Nearly Retired]

Oh, you should- it was one of my better ones

[avbug]

Networking has become a staple of any industry. For those who participate, sites such as LinkedIn have become so pervasive that some employers actually ask for the contact information for the site as part of the application process. Such has its advantages, and disadvantages. It's also a potential minefield for the employer and the potential employee.

 

Many have come to believe that the only way to get ahead in aviation is networking, and its' patently untrue. One can get ahead the old fashioned way, simply by making applications, sending resumes, going to job interviews, and getting hired. One becomes marketable by gaining qualifications the old fashioned way. Ratings, hours, and experience. The more qualifications one has in terms of ratings, skills and abilities, the more useful an employee can be. Mechanic skills, for example, increase the utility of the employee. Hours make one competitive, to a degree, but don't necessarily make an employee more useful once insurance minimums and client minimums have been met. Experience that comes with hours and a broad background makes the employee useful, however, and can make an applicant get noticed.

 

For the up and coming instructor, one of the best investments is a book by a fixed-wing instructor called Greg Brown. The book is entitled The Savvy Flight Instructor, and Greg has long been an advocate of networking. Greg recommends it not just for future use, but for finding students; using the ones you have now to get more, to make contacts, to spread word-of-mouth advertising, and so on. Every instructor should own a copy of that book.

 

Individuals should know that networking is not necessary. It's a tool that can be used, but it need not be. The truth is that there is enough work out there for those who are willing to look for it that an "in" isn't required to find or gain work. Often networking is used to shortcut the process, and often used as a crutch for failure to put in the effort needed to find and secure work on one's own.

 

If networking is used as a supplementary tool for finding work, it shouldn't supplant the techniques for being marketable. Those serious about building a career will invest some effort in learning how to interview properly, and will develop a professional resume. Today job boards are excellent tools for making contacts; far fewer blind resumes need to be sent; employers who are looking for a specific skill set for a specific job will advertise and make an avenue for application linked directly off the advertisement. Most of those sites require a monthly fee, and usually include packaging for resume and job material; one's entire application data can be submitted in one shot with the click of a button, customized to that employer.

 

Don't let anyone tell you that there's only one avenue to finding, getting, or retaining work. There isn't.

 

Some will tell you to pad your resume of logbook. I've seen a LOT of that in the industry. As recently as a few days ago, I've heard pilots advise others to falsify their logbooks. I'll say it rhetorically when people talk about "building time," but that's another conversation. Some will actually recommend you do it. I've seen employees pad their resume; an employee for a company for whom I was a captain and union representative recently updated his resume on LinkedIn. I saw his information; he left the company to pursue other interests, and cites his experience as Captain at that company. Specifically a "reserve captain." There were no reserve captains, and he was never a captain. Padded resume. Don't do that. Don't "build hours," and don't write in more than you have. Perhaps no one will know; a lot of people do it. You'll always know.

 

Likewise for using others to get work. You'll do the work, your career will go on it's merry way, but there are ethical implications. I can look back at my career and see no falsified hours, no padded resume. What I say I did, I did, and it's been verified in background checks numerous times, as well as security clearances, and so on. It's been vetted to death, and I have no concerns because it's been a clean, honest past. I don't look back and wonder if I wouldn't have had this job or that if it weren't for so-and-so getting me in the door. That may not mean much to some, but it means a lot to me. I leave each job owing no one, and no one owing me.

 

Building a network of contacts works for some. Not for others. Some would have you think it's some kind of sin or crime to not network. They'll rail on you, call you names, call you the son of satan, an evil person, whine about how they perceive you, and carry on for pages about it, if you don't network. I don't drink alcohol, and I've had people do the same thing, as if I'm somehow obligated to drink. They feel they're entitled to something, or that I'm obligated to something, as if not being conformed to their small world somehow belittles me. I've even had people rabbit on about being entitled to my help. Not so.

 

Don't let people cast their expectations on you. You're not obligated to anyone. If you do a favor for someone, expect nothing in return. If someone does a favor for you, kindly thank them, but don't let people leverage or obligate you. Be your own person. Own yourself. Follow your own conscience, and don't let gnatty voices in the wind try to tell you otherwise.

Edited April 26, 2013 by avbug

[heli3544]

I'm a 400hr nobody in this industry trying to be respectful, pay my dues, and get good advice, seems VR isn't the place for it lately.... Hope it changes soon...... Can we get back to aviation??

[Flying Pig]

I'm a 400hr nobody in this industry trying to be respectful, pay my dues, and get good advice, seems VR isn't the place for it lately.... Hope it changes soon...... Can we get back to aviation??

Picture it like this..... you are working at an operator, sitting at your desk as the new guy listening to two old salts go back and forth. Do you jump in and get your hand bit by one or both of them, or do you slide out and take a walk down to the soda machine? I have learned that when two guys are arguing, if you jump in uninvited, you are now the topic of the argument. Whats that line... "A common enemy unites the oldest of foes."

 

I think there is a lot of value in it for a young pilot Think these kinds of "discussions" dont happen in the office? This is pretty tame based on what Ive seen and heard.

[Guest pokey]

I'm a 400hr nobody in this industry trying to be respectful, pay my dues, and get good advice, seems VR isn't the place for it lately.... Hope it changes soon...... Can we get back to aviation??

 

there is still plenty of good advice to be had here, some just don't know how to give it.

[Nearly Retired]

I'm a 400hr nobody in this industry trying to be respectful, pay my dues, and get good advice, seems VR isn't the place for it lately.... Hope it changes soon...... Can we get back to aviation??

 

What?! What are you talking about? VR, not a place for good advice? Lessee...there are threads on how to do a proper approach (a fascinating one at that), threads about what's the best type of personal helicopter to buy, threads about whether this is a good career, a thread on the oldest helicopters people have flown...WTF do you want? Just because *one* thread involves some, err, "spirited" back-and-forth does not mean the entire VR site is worthless. Sheesh!

 

Even this thread is full of good advice, if you care enough to read it.

 

And look, in this regard I kind of side with Avbug. You, Heli3544 come on here with absolutely zero information in your profile, and then you pass judgment on this site as if you're some big judge and jury...like we owe you some better entertainment or information for your hard-earned dollars...like you're entitled. Well who the f*ck are you, other than just another anonymous internet poster complaining because things aren't up to his standards? You want to become something other than a "400-hour nobody" in this business? Maybe you could start by being less arrogant.

 

This site is what YOU make it. You want VR to "get back to aviation?" Then start a topic or thread. Post a picture. Ask a question. Or, at 400 mighty hours, do you know everything there is to have learned already? And while I'm on this particular rant, why are people so afraid of revealing their identity on boards such as these? Everyone wants to be anonymous! Even Sir Father Avbug...his profile is absolutely devoid of any information that might make us want to listen to or respect his views. ZERO! Nobody wants anyone to know who they are, but everybody wants to criticize and complain.

 

 

 

I feel stupid

And contagious

Here we are now

Entertain us!

There's a reason that this thread has over 1,000 views already and it's been up for, what, only three days? (EDIT: Over 1,100!) It's because it's interesting and fun, not just because it's the "Bob vs. Avbug" fight thread. (Okay, "Bob vs. The World" thread.)

 

And look at Avbug! When prompted (goaded?) he finally comes out with a decent post on the current topic. Not that I agree with all of it, but hey- they're his views and it's a well-thought-out, well-written, informative post full of good information. Glory be! Saints preserve us!

 

So. The ball's in your court there, Heli3544. What are YOUR views on networking? Have you done any? Has it ever worked out for you? Anything relevant or productive at all to add?

[Counterrotate]

 

there is still plenty of good advice to be had here, some just don't know how to give it.

See above for case in point.

[Spike]

I'm a 400hr nobody in this industry trying to be respectful, pay my dues, and get good advice, seems VR isn't the place for it lately.... Hope it changes soon...... Can we get back to aviation??

Then I suggest you ask a question…..

Besides that, what the Pig Dude said….

 

 

[Spike]

Here is some advice….

Pay to become qualified via training.

Once qualified, obtain a job anyway you can, and this includes by networking if necessary.

Once established as a pro, let your reputation carry you through.

Simple enough……

 

[iChris]

Nobody so far has been able to debunk the Importance of Networking….

 

NETWORKING is the single most powerful tactic to accelerate and sustain success for any individual or organization.

 

Networking is about making connections and building enduring, mutually beneficial relationships.

 

It’s not always about whom you know ... but WHO KNOWS YOU!

 

Ask any senior executive, politician, community leader or successful salesperson which single skill or habit helped them excel in their career – an overwhelming majority will respond with one simple word… Networking.

 

We’re all constantly bombarded with advertisements, emails, status updates, special offers, and sales pitches creating a cluttered message. Personal relationships enable you to stand out, rise above the noise and remain top of mind.

 

Relationships are the catalyst for success. People do business with those they like and trust, serve as a resource, help others succeed.

 

Networking is not the only way but it provides the most productive, most proficient and most enduring tactic to build relationships and achieving success.

 

Networking has been around for a long time:

 

Napoleon Hill called it the MASTERMIND PRINCIPLE, without which no great achievement can be made.

 

http://youtu.be/TNzaa9lz0b8

Edited April 26, 2013 by iChris

[Guest pokey]

Here is some advice….

Pay to become qualified via training.

Once qualified, obtain a job anyway you can, and this includes by networking if necessary.

Once established as a pro, let your reputation carry you through.

Simple enough……

 

 

 

sound advice, altho kind of harsh to a newbie looking for help

 

the "Simple enough....." comment just seems to add an "air of arrogance" to the post

 

just my 3 sense $$$

Edited April 26, 2013 by pokey

[Counterrotate]

 

 

sound advice, altho kind of harsh to a newbie looking for help

 

the "Simple enough....." comment just seems to add an "air of arrogance" to the post

 

just my 3 sense $$$

Ok youngster, cool your jets for a second. Perhaps Spike has earned that "air of arrogance". Perhaps you just misunderstood the message. Regardless, it really is quite simple. You pay your dues first. There are really no shortcuts to getting qualified to work. From that point, you need to find work. That's the hardest part, finding that initial job, but if you are qualified and know your stuff its not impossible. Then, once you have work, do well. Work hard at it. Learn. Improve. Develop your interpersonal skills. Build a reputation. It will follow you. Good or bad, it will follow you.

[Guest pokey]

Ok youngster, cool your jets for a second. Perhaps Spike has earned that "air of arrogance". Perhaps you just misunderstood the message. Regardless, it really is quite simple. You pay your dues first. There are really no shortcuts to getting qualified to work. From that point, you need to find work. That's the hardest part, finding that initial job, but if you are qualified and know your stuff its not impossible. Then, once you have work, do well. Work hard at it. Learn. Improve. Develop your interpersonal skills. Build a reputation. It will follow you. Good or bad, it will follow you.

 

 

I am not a youngster, but TY for the compliment. Spike may have earned it, i agree, but the simple comment was,,, --this networking thread sure brings out the beast in us all,, don't it?

 

simple enuf?

[heli3544]

I clearly see that my post got completely misconstrued. I simply was implying, why are we sitting on here calling each other atheist? Or wether not god does or does not exist?

 

And to the networking question. Yes I believe networking is a great tool to new and old people in this industry, considering 80% of people get there job from a connection. I spend multiple hours daily calling people, sending resumes, flying to interview, and trying to make more connections. Has it helped me land a job? No not yet, but it's better then me sitting around doing nothing at all. I'm doing all I can do to make it in this industry. Just wish I had R22 time to help me be more marketable in the CFI world.

[Spike]

 

 

sound advice, altho kind of harsh to a newbie looking for help

 

the "Simple enough....." comment just seems to add an "air of arrogance" to the post

 

just my 3 sense $$$

 

 

Maybe I missed something but, my reply (#62) was an opinion based on the topic at hand and not specifically geared to any single post. Furthermore, if your reference is in reply to heli3544s comment, it appeared to me he/she wasn’t asking a question, but rather making a statement. Maybe I’m wrong….

 

I agree with lots of the information presented in this thread. I also disagree with an equal amount. Therefore, I prefer to KISS it…. Keep It Simple Silly…..

 

For the record, I’ve never intentionally networked to get ahead. Shoot, for the most part, the jobs came to me… That is why I emphasize ones reputation over everything else…. Even so, I’ve met and established personal relationships with tons of really cool people in this business. Some have helped me. Others I’ve helped….. If you want to label that as “networking” then so be it. I see it as hanging with the fellas….

.

Lastly, what I’ve "earned" is a matter of opinion…. I prefer to let the reader be the judge……

 

Edited April 26, 2013 by Spike

[Nearly Retired]

.

[avbug]

 

Networking has been around for a long time:

 

 

 

Christ may be the wrong one to pick as a networking specialist. Your picture shows him with his disciples; we're all aware of his fate in the days following the last supper (suffering to the point of sweating blood, and death by crucifixion). He picked disciples to assist in his work, much like an employer picks employees. The benefits were not good, the hours very long, and the pay non-existent.

 

The disciples certainly didn't pick Christ as a networking opportunity. Their upward mobility was stimied by fates such as inverted crucifixion and death by conflagration. Not good for them. The key moment of the depiction in the last supper was a point of betrayal by Judas, with identification of the traitor and his designation as such by Christ.

 

The whole event (and those surrounding it) are more of an anti-networking statement, if anything.

 

Edited April 26, 2013 by avbug

[pilot#476398]

The whole event (and those surrounding it) are more of an anti-networking statement, if anything.

 

 

What the whole event is more of a statement of is pick the right career! Networking can get you where you want to be within the organization, but if its the wrong organization well...?

[pilot#476398]

 

why are people so afraid of revealing their identity on boards such as these? Everyone wants to be anonymous! Even Sir Father Avbug...his profile is absolutely devoid of any information that might make us want to listen to or respect his views. ZERO! Nobody wants anyone to know who they are, but everybody wants to criticize and complain.

 

 

If you know who I am, then I can't be a dick to you on here today, then be your best friend at work tomarrow!

 

You want more personal info? OK,...most of the time when I post, I'm on the can!

[avbug]

I'll tell you why anonymity is preferred. I've had irate posters from various web boards call my employers repeatedly in attempts to get me fired (they've stated as much: it was their way of trying to get "even" based on their perception of what they read on a web board). I've had them call my wife. One made bomb threats. My wife was so concerned about one individual, a private pilot chiropractor from Chicago, that she asked to provide a shotgun at home for her while I was away. Frankly, nobody here is worth that much concern, and frankly, anonymity is just fine. If the words aren't good enough for you, then no amount of credential behind them will make any difference.

[iChris]

I don't network and never have. If I can't get a job on my own without buying my way in with name dropping, I'm not interested in the job. I've never had a job yet because of a connection, and don't intend to start.

 

I've no interest in being obligated or beholden to anyone. I seldom have any contact with anyone from a former employer; when I move on, I move on.

 

You don’t network, so what is you opinion on some of the so-called Seminars and networking events that are promoted here on Vertical Reference like the HeliSuccess Career Development Seminar.

 

Is it of any benefit?

 

Is it just another revenue generating activity?

Edited April 27, 2013 by iChris

[mausermolt]

I would have given my wife an AR-15 for home defence....

 

aw i think i just opened a new can of worms

 

But to contribute to the topic of the thread, I wouldnt have the job i have now if i didnt "network". A good friend (previous employer) asked if i was looking for a job. POOF! got a job. I was qualified, but I would have never heard about it if I didnt know this one particular guy in the industry.

Edited April 27, 2013 by mausermolt