Army Cutting 10 BCTs; Army Aviation Unscathed... For Now

[zVo]

 

WASHINGTON — The Army on Tuesday announced major force structure cuts that will drop the number of brigade combat teams from 45 to 33, saying further shrinkage of the federal defense budget would require even deeper cuts and further lessen the Army’s combat power.

The Army previously announced it would reduce its end-strength from its current level of 541,000 to 490,000 soldiers by the end of fiscal 2017 under the $487 billion of spending reductions mandated by the 2011 Budget Control Act, but until Tuesday had only announced it was cutting two brigades in Europe. The Army reached a wartime high of 570,000 soldiers, after having some 482,000 soldiers in 2001.

Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno said Tuesday that another 10 BCTs would be inactivated. Meanwhile, the number of maneuver battalions per brigade would be increased to three from the current two, and each brigade would be assigned more engineers.

By reducing the number of headquarters and increasing the number of battalions per brigade, Odierno said the Army is “increasing our tooth to tail ratio.” He added that while there would be some civilian job losses, many civilian positions are in place to support the basic functions of a post, and won’t be affected.

Odierno said 10 BCTs would be cut from 10 Army installations: Fort Bliss, Texas; Fort Bragg, N.C.; Fort Campbell, Ky.; Fort Carson, Colo.; Fort Drum, N.Y.; Fort Hood, Texas; Fort Knox, Ky.; Fort Riley, Kan.; Fort Stewart, Ga.; and Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash. Another two BCTs used for soldier training will also be cut, officials said.

An eleventh BCT in a location still undecided will be cut in the future, Odierno said.

The Army was working early Tuesday to notify Congress of the planned cuts, an Army official told Stars and Stripes.

The brigades selected for reduction included one Stryker brigade, three armored brigades, five infantry brigades and an airborne brigade. A brigade has roughly 3,500 people.

The brigade cuts were made after thousands of hours of planning, including simulated combat and interviews with installation personnel, Odierno said. The final selections were based on diverse factors including proper geographic placement of forces, cost and local economic impacts, Odierno said.

The cuts are likely the first round for the Army. They don’t take into consideration the across-the-board spending cuts known as the sequester, which are set to reduce military spending by an additional $500 billion by 2022.

Officials said if the sequester remains in place or isn’t modified by Congress, the Army will need to consider further, deeper cuts to its force structure that could reduce the number of soldiers to well below 490,000.

Following the announcement, Odierno will visit some of the Army bases hardest hit by the cuts, officials said.

What's coming from where?

To meet new budget realities, the Army says it will cut one brigade combat team at each of 10 stateside bases:

• Fort Bliss, Texas – infantry BCT
• Fort Bragg, N.C. – airborne infantry BCT
• Fort Campbell, Ky. – infantry BCT
• Fort Carson, Colo. – armor BCT
• Fort Drum, N.Y. – infantry BCT
• Fort Hood, Texas – armor BCT
• Fort Knox, Ky. – infantry BCT
• Fort Riley, Kan. – infantry BCT
• Fort Stewart, Ga. – armor BCT
• Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash. – Stryker BCT

 

(link to article)

 

[akscott60]

Things will get tight. Its life. It happens after every single conflict. The government is broke.

[ftxag76]

We are joing the wrong serivce, haha!!

USAF is offering $225,000 to pilots to stay an extra 9 yrs.

 

 

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130625/CAREERS03/306250024/Air-Force-offers-fighter-pilots-225-000-stay-in

[Velocity173]

It's always been this way. The Navy and Marines have traditionally offered bonuses as well. The common Army WO line pilot working for less pay and no bonuses.

[Hotdogs]

It's always been this way. The Navy and Marines have traditionally offered bonuses as well.

 

 

wait....what..?

[SBuzzkill]

We are joing the wrong serivce, haha!!

USAF is offering $225,000 to pilots to stay an extra 9 yrs.

 

 

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130625/CAREERS03/306250024/Air-Force-offers-fighter-pilots-225-000-stay-in

 

What the f**k.

[akscott60]

Go to baseops. Those USAF pilots are an unhappy bunch.

[Velocity173]

 

 

wait....what..?

"Marine aviators planning to doff their wings may want to think twice. Those leaving active duty can earn tens of thousands of dollars if they join the Reserve.

Aviators who qualify for available Reserve job openings in a handful of military occupational specialties can qualify to take home $45,000 for an additional three years of service."

 

"For fiscal year 2011, department head bonus amounts are as follows:

 

- All helicopter pilots, $10,000 per year;

- EA-18G and EA-6B electronic air attack (VAQ) pilots, $15,000 per year; VAQ NFOs, $20,000 per year;

- E-2C carrier airborne early warning (VAW) and C-2 fleet logistics support (VRC)

pilots, $5,000 per year; VAW NFOs, $5,000 per year;

- FA-18 strike fighter (VFA) pilots, $25,000 per year; VFA NFOs, $10,000 per year;

- P-3C patrol (VP) pilots, $10,000 per year; VP NFOs, $10,000 per year;

- EP-3 air reconnaissance (VQ) pilots, $10,000 per year; VQ NFOs, $10,000 per year;

- E-6A airborne communications (VQ [T]) pilots, $5,000 per year; VQ (T) NFOs, $5,000 per year.

 

Previous bonuses were $25,000 per year for all pilots and $15,000 per year for all NFOs, regardless of airframe."

 

"The Navy announced plans Wednesday to pay huge bonuses in an effort to try to hold on to pilots, who are leaving the service for more lucrative and stable jobs in commercial aviation.

The plan would pay an experienced pilot an extra $25,000 a year for five years for signing up for another five years, with an option of taking half of the total $125,000 up front in a lump sum."

 

 

In the Army you pretty much have Special Ops getting bonuses and that's it. In the past they bring out a weak bonus for maybe MTP or TAC Ops but nothing like the extent the other branches have. Oh and for you new WOFTs, there's talk of cutting flight pay to save money. Welcome to the Army.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Velocity173

[zaurus]

akscott60

 

They are only unhappy because they are spoiled children. They don't have a clue on how good they have it compared to other military aviators.

[Jester2138]

Chair Force

[ftxag76]

 

In the Army you pretty much have Special Ops getting bonuses and that's it. In the past they bring out a weak bonus for maybe MTP or TAC Ops but nothing like the extent the other branches have. Oh and for you new WOFTs, there's talk of cutting flight pay to save money. Welcome to the Army.

If they cut flight pay , they have to cut is across all services. Who's f$@!! Idea was that??? Plus why cut fly pay and pay bonus to to retain pilots from leaving for the private sector??? Not buying it.

[Velocity173]

If they cut flight pay , they have to cut is across all services. Who's f$@!! Idea was that??? Plus why cut fly pay and pay bonus to to retain pilots from leaving for the private sector??? Not buying it.

You don't understand. The Army doesn't care about pilots leaving for the civilian sector right now. They have too many pilots right now. As I've said before during the height of the wars we were pumping twice the amount of students through Rucker than we had prior to 9/11. Units were 200 % strength for deployments. Now the Army doesn't need them anymore,

 

The Army that you all are going into is nothing like the Army I was in. Me and my peers got promoted a year early. We had bonuses (2002). No requirement to attend the advanced course prior to CW3. During the war years it was all about flying and very little busy work. Even then I knew plenty of people who only did 6 yrs and left.

 

I have friends deployed who can't wait to get out. Some of them have the hours for a decent civilian job and others who don't. I know CW4 SP who can't get promoted to CW5. I know people who are two time passovers for promotion and will be forced out. Over the past couple of years there's talk of changing retirement to 30 yrs or some kind of 401K program. Personnel costs for the military are killing its budget.

 

As far as flight pay being cut, yeah that's a rumor and I personally don't see it happening. But this rumor is coming from a friend of mine who works at Rucker and believe me they're brainstorming ways to cut costs. If not flight pay it'll be somewhere else.

 

As Ascott60 says, this sort of thing happens after war. Anyone read Mike Novosel's book? After WWII and a great service to his country, he was simply released. I knew a commissioned Marine Aviator who flew 46s in Vietnam. After the war they said he could either get out or stay in as an enlisted E-6. He chose to stay in enlisted and retired as a MSG. The Army is taking steps to weed out the herd we've built up over the last decade.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Velocity173

[SBuzzkill]

Now it's all busywork and very little flying.

[ftxag76]

Now it's all busywork and very little flying.

Define busy work

[akscott60]

Now it's all busywork and very little flying.

Isnt that the truth. Ive flown 2 hours in the last month. Granted some of that was weather.

[raptorzx6r]

The May Civilian selection board was over 50%. I'm just wondering how the Army would be cutting back the fat with such a relatively high(or is it?) selection rate.

 

Granted, I'm not familiar with previous board selection rates over the past 10 years, so perhaps this is a low number.

[Jester2138]

Not that I think anything the Army ever does could qualify to normal people as cutting back the fat, but I think very few people apply to begin with, given the relative difficulty of the application process itself and the atypical warrant officer pipeline.

[SBuzzkill]

There were only 40 or so civilian applicants when I was selected. Not many people know about WOFT and those that do still have to find a competent recruiter and complete the packet.

[SBuzzkill]

Define busy work

 

Anything with a poor ratio of time spent to constructive work accomplished.

Edited June 27, 2013 by SBuzzkill

[Velocity173]

The May Civilian selection board was over 50%. I'm just wondering how the Army would be cutting back the fat with such a relatively high(or is it?) selection rate.

 

Granted, I'm not familiar with previous board selection rates over the past 10 years, so perhaps this is a low number.

Nah 50% is not high. 10 yrs ago the rates were pushing 90 %. That's no joke. They had to have them that high to get enough people through the program.

 

In my 60 AQC class we had 16 students. That was in 2001. 5 yrs later in 2006 as an instructor, we had over 30 students per class. There was a sense of urgency at the time to get the students through to help in the GWOT. We had 3 students per instructor and were running 3.5-4.0 hrs everyday. We were using the Spanish IPs to help with the increased load as well. Even with this break neck pace there was still a 3-4 month bubble for the 60 course. We were tired but we also knew our comrades in combat had it worse. We did this for almost a year until we had an accident that killed the IP. They got rid of 3 on 1s after that and slowly increased our number of IPs through hiring DACs. Even then there was still a bubble. 2002 to about 2009 was an incredibly busy time to be an IP at Rucker.

 

So, that's the difference of pre 9/11 to post 9/11 at Lowe. I have friends working at Lowe now who say they're back to pre 9/11 numbers. The program of FS XXI has also changed through the years. Hours reduced in favor of sim time and training events (Ranger, CMFT, slings, multi ship, terrain) reduced or canceled. Right now some of my IP friends at Rucker are being furloughed. This is what happens when the money starts drying up.

 

You know when a branch or MOS is hurting by the number of bonuses given. In 2002 they had an untracked bonus of 48 grand. I wanna say you had to have 6-14 yrs flying experience and a 5 yr ADSO. It was a knee jerk reaction to keeping pilots during a time of war. Basically it was designed to prevent the CW2-3 guys from going to the civilian side. They didn't care about less than 6 yrs because they know they've got ya on contract. They didn't care about the older guys over 14yrs because they knew most likely they were already staying til retirement. In the Army they haven't had an across the board pilot bonus like that since. Reason they don't is because they're not hurting for pilots.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Velocity173

[Hotdogs]

"Marine aviators planning to doff their wings may want to think twice. Those leaving active duty can earn tens of thousands of dollars if they join the Reserve.

Aviators who qualify for available Reserve job openings in a handful of military occupational specialties can qualify to take home $45,000 for an additional three years of service."

 

"For fiscal year 2011, department head bonus amounts are as follows:

 

- All helicopter pilots, $10,000 per year;

- EA-18G and EA-6B electronic air attack (VAQ) pilots, $15,000 per year; VAQ NFOs, $20,000 per year;

- E-2C carrier airborne early warning (VAW) and C-2 fleet logistics support (VRC)

pilots, $5,000 per year; VAW NFOs, $5,000 per year;

- FA-18 strike fighter (VFA) pilots, $25,000 per year; VFA NFOs, $10,000 per year;

- P-3C patrol (VP) pilots, $10,000 per year; VP NFOs, $10,000 per year;

- EP-3 air reconnaissance (VQ) pilots, $10,000 per year; VQ NFOs, $10,000 per year;

- E-6A airborne communications (VQ [T]) pilots, $5,000 per year; VQ (T) NFOs, $5,000 per year.

 

Previous bonuses were $25,000 per year for all pilots and $15,000 per year for all NFOs, regardless of airframe."

 

"The Navy announced plans Wednesday to pay huge bonuses in an effort to try to hold on to pilots, who are leaving the service for more lucrative and stable jobs in commercial aviation.

The plan would pay an experienced pilot an extra $25,000 a year for five years for signing up for another five years, with an option of taking half of the total $125,000 up front in a lump sum."

 

 

In the Army you pretty much have Special Ops getting bonuses and that's it. In the past they bring out a weak bonus for maybe MTP or TAC Ops but nothing like the extent the other branches have. Oh and for you new WOFTs, there's talk of cutting flight pay to save money. Welcome to the Army.

 

Dude this is two years ago. We're not evening career designating all of our pilots (I.e. they have to get out or go reserve) and the 45k bonus is to goto into the reserve. Not a yearly bonus or continual bonus. Those airframes you listed were Navy specific...(VFA =/= VMFA) and from what my VMFA/VMA buddies tell me the community is crowded at the senior 0-3/0-4 level and is tough to get back into the cockpit.

 

There are bonuses to stay in for a number of years past your initial commitment, but they are no where near what they were in the height of the wars, nor do they guarantee you'll stay in the cockpit for that amount of time. You guys made more pilots (we did too, but not nearly as many) and we paid ours more to stay in. Pretty much sums up the difference there. I don't even know if they have an ACP for FY13.

 

Also, maybe the Marine Corps values it's aviation branch a little more? Maybe you guys are cheaper to make? Maybe you guys tend to stay in longer?

[Velocity173]

 

Dude this is two years ago. We're not evening career designating all of our pilots (I.e. they have to get out or go reserve) and the 45k bonus is to goto into the reserve. Not a yearly bonus or continual bonus. Those airframes you listed were Navy specific...(VFA =/= VMFA) and from what my VMFA/VMA buddies tell me the community is crowded at the senior 0-3/0-4 level and is tough to get back into the cockpit.

 

There are bonuses to stay in for a number of years past your initial commitment, but they are no where near what they were in the height of the wars, nor do they guarantee you'll stay in the cockpit for that amount of time. You guys made more pilots (we did too, but not nearly as many) and we paid ours more to stay in. Pretty much sums up the difference there. I don't even know if they have an ACP for FY13.

 

Also, maybe the Marine Corps values it's aviation branch a little more? Maybe you guys are cheaper to make? Maybe you guys tend to stay in longer?

That's why I said HISTORICALLY. I have no idea what's going on with you guys now. The above info are from stats from 2000-2011. The Army doesn't even come close to comparing to those figures during those years.

 

As far as reasons why we don't get the bucks? A combination of factors. Army doesn't realize the importance of aviation. The Generals who make budget decisions aren't pilots, they're infantry types. They're going to help their own communities first. Also I think with the other services having a much higher wash out rate, they're not stacked as high as we are with pilots. With the other services having pilots going to non-flying staff jobs creates a gap in line pilots. A WO in the Army can spend their entire career in a flying position. I think guys stay in longer as well due to the high percentage of former enlisted in the Army. They already have time invested so naturally they'll want to stay til retirement.

 

So, many reasons why no bonuses. The Army knows they have a good deal when it comes to Warrants. High output, low cost.

[ftxag76]

So what can we expect when we report to Rucker and afterwards based in the current trends?

[Hotdogs]

So, many reasons why no bonuses. The Army knows they have a good deal when it comes to Warrants. High output, low cost.

 

It's also an envy of many Marine aviators. Staying in the cockpit for an entire career would be the first choice of many, but our career progression model doesn't provide that opportunity that often if at all. Hence also the reason why our current Commandant is an also now an Aviator.

[Velocity173]

So what can we expect when we report to Rucker and afterwards based in the current trends?

That's a pretty open question. For those going to Rucker nothing really changes. The program the guys are in now is the same one you'll go through. While cutbacks have affected Rucker, as a student you won't see any difference.

 

It's not doom and gloom here either. You all are just joining the Army during a drawdown. These are times of budget restrictions and you simply won't have an unlimited budget like we had years ago. You do your job and make the best of the situation. Even though your primary job is to fly, for the next several years hours will be sparse. For some of you life in the Army will be disappointing.

 

We can tell you all day what it's like as a Warrant but you really won't know until you're in. I can tell you in my class of street to seaters only a few stayed in after 6 yrs. They were simply tired of the BS and went on to CBP, LE, EMS and Oil & Gas. Those of us that were prior enlisted pretty much were obligated to stay in after 6 to get retirement.

 

Today, I see a lot of guys trying to stay in. Not sure if they're worried about the civilian hiring situation or they just want to stay for the benefits and really like Army life. There is a daily grind as an Army Aviator. At your 6 yr mark you ask yourself is this really what you want to do with your life or not. We all have our reasons to stay or go.