Military to CFI/CFII Transition

[d10]

I agree it's a failure but I think it's a widespread failure. Your program sounds like an exception. I spent my entire piloting career with the same battalion so I'm no expert on what the rest of the Army does, but if the pilots PCSing to us were any indication of other units' training, emphasis on IFR, airspace, and other NAS rules is uncommon. I consider myself lucky to have started in a company where we had two PCs who cared about that stuff and made sure I learned it.

[adam32]

They better be proficient at FAR/AIM when they get out. Military pilots are bound by the FARs just as civilian pilots. Generally AR95-1, ATM and SOPs overrule most FAR stuff, but that still doesn't absolve them from not knowing that information. The FARs and AIM are both listed as references for evals & training in the UH-60 ATM so they're both fair game. Don't know of a stands shop that doesn't have a FAR/AIM sitting in their library.

 

Generally military pilots aren't familiar with Part 135 stuff but that doesn't matter. Most companies give you a Part 135 open book test (amoung others) after getting hired anyway. For a former Army aviator, a Part 135 check ride will probably seem much easier than the stands / IFR rides that they're used to.

 

I highly highly doubt any military pilot while deployed and getting "real world time" even has a current FAR/AIM in the same country let alone keeping up with new regs...

[Velocity173]

 

I highly highly doubt any military pilot while deployed and getting "real world time" even has a current FAR/AIM in the same country let alone keeping up with new regs...

We had 2 FAR / AIMs sitting on the shelf at Bagram when I was there and several of us ordered current copies for our own collections. Our BDE conducted instrument evals while there as well.

 

When they return, we (IPs) hit them with heavy FAA type knowledge (airspace, FARS, 95-1) so they're ready to begin flying. We don't have the luxury of saying we aren't ready to fly in the NAS because we were deployed for a year.

 

Also, deployment only makes up about a 1/3 to 1/2 of the time an aviator spends in the Army. While at home station the pilots are planning and filing flight plans just like any civilian pilot would. My guys weren't afraid of mixing it up in the NAS and we took aircraft out on X countrys for the "$5,000 hamburger" on a daily basis.

 

There is a difference between a military pilot and most civilian ones when it comes to regs. Not only does the military one have to know the basic FAR / AIM as a civilian does, but they are required to know a myriad of other regs and policies as well. You go from studying host nation regs and then right into being required to operate seamlessly in the U.S. like we never left.

 

Oh yeah, when I went to flight school we were actually issued an AIM in our pubs box. I think everything is electronic now so I'm not sure if they are still issued one.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Velocity173

[Joe_P148]

 

I highly highly doubt any military pilot while deployed and getting "real world time" even has a current FAR/AIM in the same country let alone keeping up with new regs...

You highly doubt a lot that you don't know about.

I'm sure this topic wasn't intended to be a know it all competition but it sure looks like it is going to end this way. Tell you what, we could could just agree to stop generalizing each other and go from there. Do I care about Far AIM?, absolutely! I just don't care that much about part 135 as I'm not required to. Just as you don't care about AR95-1 or ADIZ stuff because its not applicable to what you do. You have a valid argument but I just don't see how holding up knowledge of FARs trumps thousands of hours of military time. So your telling me a 500 hour R22 CFI has more knowledge and is a higher quality pilot then a 2000 hr + SIP? And FYI we do fly in the NAS, I'd venture to say I've flown Into class B and Class C airports just as much as any civilian helo.

[wbrady755]

OK well going back to my original topic... I am going for my CFI for two reasons: first, I like seeing the other side of the industry. There is a lot to be learned from civilian guys who have flown in all sorts of other positions away from the tactical ones. I want to to be a master of the craft, and this is opening up a whole new side of the game.

 

Second, I am a guard LT... Even though I am a platoon leader in a flight company, I have to work a REAL job, which prevents me from gaining any real time. I worked 70 hours a week to fly nights after my civian job let out, and only got 140 hours this past annual close-out. At that rate, I would have to work in jobs that I dislike for the better part of 5-8 years to get the IP slot/enough time to work a civilian job. I have no qualms about the money a CFI makes, because I want to ensure I can be in the business as soon as possible. And with these budget cuts looming, I think I want to have a plan B.

 

And for the record... Anyone in my company with 200 hours can handle themselves on a radio on a helicopter route through a class B. I resent that comment. HA

[Velocity173]

OK well going back to my original topic... I am going for my CFI for two reasons: first, I like seeing the other side of the industry. There is a lot to be learned from civilian guys who have flown in all sorts of other positions away from the tactical ones. I want to to be a master of the craft, and this is opening up a whole new side of the game.

 

Second, I am a guard LT... Even though I am a platoon leader in a flight company, I have to work a REAL job, which prevents me from gaining any real time. I worked 70 hours a week to fly nights after my civian job let out, and only got 140 hours this past annual close-out. At that rate, I would have to work in jobs that I dislike for the better part of 5-8 years to get the IP slot/enough time to work a civilian job. I have no qualms about the money a CFI makes, because I want to ensure I can be in the business as soon as possible. And with these budget cuts looming, I think I want to have a plan B.

 

And for the record... Anyone in my company with 200 hours can handle themselves on a radio on a helicopter route through a class B. I resent that comment. HA

Didn't know you were a NG LT. In that case, yeah you better get your CFI if you want to fly later on.

[Pohi]

I could have sworn that every time I flew it was in the real world. Unless, as a filthy civilian pilot, I can log the time spent daydreaming about flying then I need to do a serious update to my logbook.

[Flying Pig]

^Be quiet and go wax that twin engine Airbus thing

Edited February 25, 2014 by Flying Pig

[aeroscout]

The most effective CFI will tailor his/her lessons to the individual. It isn't about memorizing the FAR/AIM and trying to force feed that knowledge to every student and or client that comes along.

Give them what they want and need, for that lesson and maybe a bit more.

Any more than that is overkill and counter productive.

The best CFI doesn't necessarily need to know everything. How could you even teach someone to know everything ? The best CFI demonstrates how to be resourceful, how to be able to quickly get your hands on the reference material and look up the topic in question and source all answers.

 

Now, where is that twin airbus thing ?

[AV8RR]

Saw this and thought I'd chime in. This is based on my personal experiences; hope the information helps. And first, if you can stay in the Army to build your time before you get out, DO IT! Otherwise, keep reading.

 

So, I was in the Army from 2005-2013, and I've been out for a year now. I was a CW2, flew Chinooks, and due to unit climate, timing, a couple hiccups with my health, I left the Army with only 650 total time. I did 2 deployments but spent alot of time on staff on the first and between deployments. That being said, I'm not here to bash the Army or throw a pity party, but I can undersand how a person could conceive of leaving the Army without the hours to continue an aviation career immediately.

 

I currently work in operations for a major helicopter company, so I'll tell you all I've learned in my experience with civilian employment.

 

Civilian companies want flight time and ratings appropriate to the job sought. The hour requirements are driven largely by the insurance requirements. Aside from total time rigidity, if you desire a job where a certain rating (ATP license, OAS/USFS card) is required, those requirements are fixed as well. Companies may be flexible in their own personal desires if you meet 90% of what they're looking for in time/experience breakdown.

 

That being said, if you're leaving the Army with less than 1000-1500 hours, you will likely not find a job unless you build the extra time. Most low time jobs are instructing or tour jobs, and most of those jobs are in Robinson helicopters. So, your choices to build time are CFI/II (Schweizer or Robbie) or build time in a Robbie to get a tour job, SFAR 73.

 

Also, others are correct; you do not need 150 hours in make/model to teach. That is for newly minted civilian CFI's as a total time reference. Some further advice, check your GI Bill choice for what the VA will pay as for percentage. For my experience, they pay for Part 141 schools and not Part 61, fyi.

 

For hour and experience requirements for various ratings, check Part 61/91 and SFAR 73 (Robinson specific) if you have questions. I'd give you where to look, but I don't have my book in front of me.

 

Hope that helps, even tho it was lengthy. Good flying, and keep the greasy side down....unless is a Chinook, then every side is greasy

[SBuzzkill]

This military vs civilian aviator thing is so stupid. I've been on both sides of the fence and there are pros and scrubs in either world.

[Wally]

This military vs civilian aviator thing is so stupid. I've been on both sides of the fence and there are pros and scrubs in either world.

 

That is a stone fact.