EMS article on logbook ethics

[Flying Pig]

http://exclusive.multibriefs.com/content/beware-the-dark-side-the-ethical-dilemma-facing-hems/medical-allied-healthcare

 

Not to rehash our fudging logbooks thread again, but I found this over on JH. Interesting. A pilot with 1500 hrs RW and 2000TT under 40 is a red flag? Im in that category, actually pushing 3000TT and I look around and feel like I am way behind the power curve. Good for me then I guess? Interesting perspective from people who hire pilots and sort though their applications.

 

When faced with an applicant under 40 years old claiming to have attained over 1,500 rotary PIC hours, one should listen to Yoda: "If you choose the quick and easy path, you will become an agent of evil."

 

A recent case provides an example. A company instructor pilot (remains anonymous) revealed, "How can someone achieve so many flight hours and experience and be under 40? It's almost too good to be true."

 

Just about every CFI I know who has moved on to their first job outside of instructing was well over 1000hrs and are still in their 20s.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Flying Pig

[wopilot]

That was a reckless and irresponsible piece of work done by the so called professional. I get the premise but pigeon-holing and calling out everyone with less than 1500 PIC and under 40? ridiculous, he apparently wasn't deployed for any of OEF/OIF. Obviously no thought, research, nor merit went into his thinking before typing.

 

But he's getting responses, so he wins.

[Flying Pig]

Yeah… my thoughts too. My thought is that if you DONT have 1500hrs or more by the time you are 40, you may be in a tough situation. One part i thought was odd was that he cited some meeting HEMS "leaders" had in 2003. Uhhhhh….. its now 2014. You probably need to schedule another meeting.

 

Side Note: I actually know the guy in the picture in the article. Funny. Not the author, the shot where we are looking up the dudes nose

Edited March 5, 2014 by Flying Pig

[Gomer Pylot]

Consider the source. It's Just Helicopters. Any credibility is accidental. I had more than 1500 hours PIC well before I was 30, and it was easy to verify. And this guy is an embarrassment to NEMSPA and the industry in general.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Gomer Pylot

[UH60L-IP]

The author of the article is clueless. My guess is that he was "that guy" while in the military. He is now "that guy" in the civilian world. Waste of time reading anything he writes.

 

I'm not yet 40 and I've got more than the "red flag" amount in just twin turbine PC time. I guess I cannot be trusted though. I am I the Army after all.

 

....now where did I put my pencil?

[aeroscout]

If you are willing to put up with miserable conditions you can average 500 to 1,000 hours a year after getting your rotary commercial instrument. If you start at 20, and just get 500 hours a year, by 40 you would have 10,000 legitimate hours.

That's the civilian side. On the military side as a warrant half of that would easily be possible. On the commissioned side, you might struggle to get 1,500 hours, but even then that's only 75 hours a year.

The guy who wrote this didn't do any analysis of the industry on either side.

[apacheguy]

If you are willing to put up with miserable conditions you can average 500 to 1,000 hours a year after getting your rotary commercial instrument. If you start at 20, and just get 500 hours a year, by 40 you would have 10,000 legitimate hours.....

and a bad back.

[Velocity173]

What the hell is he talking about? I got 3,884 hrs in only 12 yrs of flying. Wars and being an IP tend to produce hours like that. I know plenty of guys in their 30s with well over 2,000 hrs. Army guys currently aren't racking up time but the ones who were in for the last 15 yrs did.

 

Also, it seems like he is referring to Army aviators having more hours in their civ logs than their 759. That's entirely possible because the wheeled guys aren't logging the taxi out for take off like civs are allowed. That could amount to an extra .1 per flight. I never used the conversion but then again I never had to.

 

Is there some fudging going on? Yeah i saw a few guys logging heavy in the Army to build time but it's not like it's some epidemic. 2,000 hrs in 6 yrs would be a bit suspect but I don't know of too many who pulled that off. Possible but not likely. If someone spent at least 10 yrs in the Army, they got the time.

 

You know how you fix the EMS pilot shortage? Increase wages so guys aren't going to the GOM or contract to make the big bucks.

[rotornut67]

I'm sure glad I'm 47.

[Flying Pig]

I guess I'll wait until I'm 41 to apply for another job

[Wally]

Initial couple of sentences set the tone-

 

"Fear, anger, aggression, the dark side are they," Yoda warns Luke Skywalker in "Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi." "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

 

The central figure in Star Wars is "the force," an entity with a dual nature — a good and an evil side. The good side of the force responds when those who have adequate faith call upon it for the betterment of all. Its dark side, however, is quicker, seductive and can tempt people into doing evil."

 

Yoda's wrong. Natural phenomenon are without moral intention, they just are. Truth is separate from facts.

 

Mr Koval's opinion that a legit pilot most likely won't have 1500 hours by age 40, much less HEMS minimums is probably based on few factual observations.

A very few years in the GoM at what was the low range of average annual flight times- 400 hours- would put even a 500 hour wunderkind in the 1500 hour range.

I agree that the industry in it's present state requires a much broader range of experience of it's pilots than is likely to be found at the 2000 hour level, much less 1500 hour. Developing the resource to provide the pilots required is a challenge. Training HEMS pilots adequately has been a failure to date.

This is a very simple job 99% of the time because it flies less than 10% of the duty period, and most of those flights are knucklehead jobs. But, when it is challenging, it can be life-threatening if the pilot lets it happen.

[Azhigher]

Yeah, that article was good for a laugh.

[wopilot]

The author of the article is clueless. My guess is that he was "that guy" while in the military. He is now "that guy" in the civilian world. Waste of time reading anything he writes.

 

I'm not yet 40 and I've got more than the "red flag" amount in just twin turbine PC time. I guess I cannot be trusted though. I am I the Army after all.

 

....now where did I put my pencil?

Exactly what I thought... DB

[WolftalonID]

Damn it....I am screwed then at 38....I better watch it on how many flights I take.... Lol

 

I read that article myself a few days ago, and really stopped and was like WTH?! Most instructors leave their school environment with 1000-1500 hrs logged. I wonder sometimes why people can call themselves journalist but forget the very basic skill of vetting their scourses.

[rotornut67]

Yeah Wolf, you better slow down. We wouldn't want you to bust 1500 before you reach 40. lol

 

He (the author of the article) is like a lot of people who quote scripture...they make it fit THEIR view point.

[aeroscout]

and a bad back.

 

 

That would be one of those miserable conditions.

[WolftalonID]

When I turn on a light, I like to quote a passage from Genesis, but always from the third person perspective just to keep people guessing!!! Lol

[AngelFire_91]

Crap crap crap crap crap!! I'm at ~1700 PIC and I'm only 31. I think I've gone too far guys... Can I start subtracting hours so I can get back to 1500 in 9 more years? What do I do? I'm scared! What if I want another job before then? HELP ME!!!!

[Spike]

Mr. Koval appears to be reporting on a misguided issue in order to achieve self-importance. The fact is, his numbers don’t jive (I had 5000 hours at 40, -as a civilian) and he provides zero evidence of padding. Furthermore, his claims can be refuted by the facts of the sector, and they are; HEMS isn’t paying enough to attract quality pilots (no offence to those currently in the sector). And, with EMS sector saturation; there are more jobs than WILLING QUALIFIED pilots to accept those jobs. Additionally, the underlying dark culture of EMS doesn’t bode well for the sector either. Plus, what he reports is so far off target, it’s a clue of where the problem is….

[Flying Pig]

I think you have 3 real options here:

 

1. Lie and tell them you are 41.

2. Stop flying and logging time and return to the industry when you are 41.

3. For the next 9 years, you'll just have to write 1475 on your resume.

 

Don't say I never tried to help.

[Pohi]

Just use the fake ID that you had in high school, I bet you never thought those extra 5 years would be useful again?

[Spike]

I'm McLovin and I flew tours in Hawaii.........

[Wally]

Crap crap crap crap crap!! I'm at ~1700 PIC and I'm only 31. I think I've gone too far guys... Can I start subtracting hours so I can get back to 1500 in 9 more years? What do I do? I'm scared! What if I want another job before then? HELP ME!!!!

 

Exactly the sort of unprincipled logbook manipulation being warned against. Proof that you young whippersnappers can't be trusted...

[Flint950]

All of the Veteran Posters to this blog have already hit the proverbial nail on the head. If you really want to do something, you will find a way. No matter what. I guess I'm in real trouble since I had 3000 before turning 37. Oh well.

[aeroscout]

I think you have 3 real options here:

 

1. Lie and tell them you are 41.

2. Stop flying and logging time and return to the industry when you are 41.

3. For the next 9 years, you'll just have to write 1475 on your resume.

 

Don't say I never tried to help.

You never tried to help!

Sorry, couldn't resist !!