adam32 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I was wrong, there is a pilot shortage... http://fireaviation.com/2015/09/18/helicopter-pilot-shortage-at-washington-dnr/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) What happened, ULA run out of pilots to send them? Edited September 18, 2015 by eagle5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) All those crazy Vietnam pilots again!! I had no idea that immediately after the war all training and flying of Hueys came to a screeching halt. Who knew.... On the other hand...... I wasn't in Vietnam, I fly Hueys and would-ya look at that...... I do firefighting also. But I make way more than a WA DNR pilot. Edited September 18, 2015 by Flying Pig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 All those crazy Vietnam pilots again!! I had no idea that immediately after the war all training and flying of Hueys came to a screeching halt. Who knew.... On the other hand...... I wasn't in Vietnam, I fly Hueys and would-ya look at that...... I do firefighting also. But I make way more than a WA DNR pilot. That's the issue, it's not about not finding pilots, it's about not finding carded pilots that are willing to work at CFI pay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknows idont Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 It's really easy: Get rid of one machine, have the other 7 fly with pilots on a generous paycheque. Still a hell of a lot cheaper than having half of the helicopters timing out crew-less while prime real estate burns to the ground. Maybe even funds left for putting a low-time intern at cfi pay in the left hand seat... [; 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 That's the issue, it's not about not finding pilots, it's about not finding carded pilots that are willing to work at CFI pay... It’s not all about the money. The other issue is; they want a cardable Type 2 pilot. Specifically, they want a “turnkey” pilot to step in and won’t offer an opportunity for a guy like me, with no Type 2 time to apply, which is ridiculous in my opinion. If they had an “approved” training program, there is no minimum time in type required for carding….. WA DNR apparently can’t think outside of the box. That is, 9K hours and they look at me like I’m a zero time R22 CFI wannabe…… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCBOATER Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 It is hard for operators to find pilots.PERIODThe companies willing to take and help train 100hr pilots often cannot find any willing to work hard, and not have a massive ego. Think they would be thankful for the chance, but many are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lelebebbel Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 You gotta offer something to get pilots. If that "something" isn't "a lot of money", then it has to be some sort of desirable training. If they pay peanuts and at the same time aren't willing to train anyone, then this is hardly surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avbug Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 I was wrong, there is a pilot shortage... http://fireaviation.com/2015/09/18/helicopter-pilot-shortage-at-washington-dnr/ Read the article again. It doesn't indicate there's a pilot shortage, at all. It indicates that the state can't fill the vacancies, and indicates that the reason is the low wages offered by the state. An organization that can't staff it's helicopters because it refuses to pay enough doesn't equate to a pilot shortage. Just a poor organization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotormandan Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Especially when they pay for other contract ships at tge same time. Seems they could contract less outside helicopters and up the pay for their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Its not all about the money. The other issue is; they want a cardable Type 2 pilot. Specifically, they want a turnkey pilot to step in and wont offer an opportunity for a guy like me, with no Type 2 time to apply, which is ridiculous in my opinion. If they had an approved training program, there is no minimum time in type required for carding.. WA DNR apparently cant think outside of the box. That is, 9K hours and they look at me like Im a zero time R22 CFI wannabeThat's exactly the issue. Any pilot with decent experience could be trained up in a matter of a couple of months. Knowing you and your experience. Transitioning into a Huey would be effortless. I don't know if it's ego's or simply just the insurance companies I went from the 500E to the UH1 with a good in house transition course, training and sitting left seat during a fire season. I have 3 seasons under my belt now and im plugging along just fine. There is nothing in a type 2 that is going to sneak up on you that an experienced pilot isn't already going to be anticipating. And you'll only get better and better with each season and each follow on training. Now take a guy who does have fire experience already in other airframes, it becomes even easier to get that guy up to speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 That's exactly the issue. Any pilot with decent experience could be trained up in a matter of a couple of months. Knowing you and your experience. Transitioning into a Huey would be effortless. I don't know if it's ego's or simply just the insurance companies I went from the 500E to the UH1 with a good in house transition course, training and sitting left seat during a fire season. I have 3 seasons under my belt now and im plugging along just fine. There is nothing in a type 2 that is going to sneak up on you that an experienced pilot isn't already going to be anticipating. And you'll only get better and better with each season and each follow on training. Now take a guy who does have fire experience already in other airframes, it becomes even easier to get that guy up to speed. Yep…. And, the UH-1 was manufactured so 18 year olds could fly them into combat .i.e. simple to operate. Conversely, I fight fire in the product where everything rotates in the other direction……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 An organization that can't staff it's helicopters because it refuses to pay enough doesn't equate to a pilot shortage. An old Vietnam pilot spending more than a half hour in the bathroom is enough for the jackasses to cry pilot shortage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Chief Pilot pay for WA DNR is at $58K. Uh........ ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Again, a shortage of pilots isn’t the problem and to an extent, neither is the pay (although $58K for a chiefaroonie is pretty darn low). It’s a cultural management problem. With public statements like this, it’s a wonder how these agencies function in the first place. One reason it’s hard to find qualified job candidates, Laugle says, is that the Vietnam-era pilots trained to fly the UH-1 Hueys are getting to retirement age. And newer pilots don’t encounter the Hueys as often or in military service. “We’ve kind of lost that … knowledge from those Vietnam-era pilots,” said Laugle. What a bunch of malarkey. And this guy is in charge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Again, a shortage of pilots isn’t the problem and to an extent, neither is the pay (although $58K for a chiefaroonie is pretty darn low). It’s a cultural management problem. With public statements like this, it’s a wonder how these agencies function in the first place. One reason it’s hard to find qualified job candidates, Laugle says, is that the Vietnam-era pilots trained to fly the UH-1 Hueys are getting to retirement age. And newer pilots don’t encounter the Hueys as often or in military service. “We’ve kind of lost that … knowledge from those Vietnam-era pilots,” said Laugle. What a bunch of malarkey. And this guy is in charge? Interesting.... because out of the 3 main pilots who taught me to fly the Huey and do fire.... none were ever even in the military. Nor were any old enough to have been in Vietnam. The military continued training in, and flying the UH1 for 30 years after Vietnam ended. So this idea that knowledge of the Huey is fading out with the Vietnam era pilots retiring is just a tired old excuse for piss poor management and recruiting. And a sad example of how little a state agency values the training and experience of their pilots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted September 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Don't they also have a Cobra? They used to anyway. I know a few 205/212 pilots, none were in Vietnam. I also know two Vietnam pilots, one is a Dr, the other a chiropractor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 I think they dropped them about the same time the Florida Forest Service did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Chief Pilot pay for WA DNR is at $58K. Uh........ ok. Is that seasonal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotormandan Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 In the full article they did point out how neither CA nor MT are experiencing these "pilot shortages". Followed by a pay comparison between the agencies. Kind of interesting when they point out their own problems without acting on any solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnr032 Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 One reason its hard to find qualified job candidates, Laugle says, is that the Vietnam-era pilots trained to fly the UH-1 Hueys are getting to retirement age. And newer pilots dont encounter the Hueys as often or in military service. Weve kind of lost that knowledge from those Vietnam-era pilots, said Laugle. What a bunch of malarkey. And this guy is in charge? That quote in the article is from a person named Laugle with the Oregon Forestry Division not from the WA DNR Chief Pilot. The article also states that Oregon does not have its own helicopters, but uses contract helicopters. I am assuming then that Laugle is a ground forestry guy and doesn't know crap about aviation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted September 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 That quote in the article is from a person named Laugle with the Oregon Forestry Division not from the WA DNR Chief Pilot. The article also states that Oregon does not have its own helicopters, but uses contract helicopters. I am assuming then that Laugle is a ground forestry guy and doesn't know crap about aviation.They have their own PLUS they use contract helicopters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 That quote in the article is from a person named Laugle with the Oregon Forestry Division not from the WA DNR Chief Pilot. The article also states that Oregon does not have its own helicopters, but uses contract helicopters. I am assuming then that Laugle is a ground forestry guy and doesn't know crap about aviation. Yes, I understood Laugle was with OFD and I argee he doesn't know crap about aviation. However, he is the guy who publically made the claim about VN pilots. Makes OFD look just as bad as WA DNR..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 In the full article they did point out how neither CA nor MT are experiencing these "pilot shortages". Followed by a pay comparison between the agencies. Kind of interesting when they point out their own problems without acting on any solutions. Can’t say much about MT but for CA, guess what? Ya don’t need any Type 2 time to qualify and thus, Cal Fire has more than enough pilots to fill the need. And, if I’m not mistaken, JB was the last VN pilot in the Cal Fire ranks… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Is that seasonal?No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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