Helipad in a residential neighborhood?

Jennie · January 30, 2020

What do you think about the safety and appropriateness of a helicopter/ pad being located in the middle of a residential neighborhood 50’ from lake and neighbors. There is an airstrip 3 miles away and an airport 15 min away. Small, quiet, lake town with no current helicopter ordinance.

Eric Hunt · January 31, 2020

Are you looking to start it or to stop it?

RisePilot · January 31, 2020

If the person had wanted to land at the airport, he/she would have bought an airplane. As long as it meets some basic parameters, this can be fine.

I'm assuming your looking for fodder for a complaint (first post). I'll note that helicopters do not specifically require an aerodrome and can take-off and land in quite small sites safely.

TomPPL · January 31, 2020

Sounds like a quiet and peaceful place - what would the neighbours think about it?

Jennie · January 31, 2020

15 hours ago, Eric Hunt said:

Are you looking to start it or to stop it?

I live in flight path of Mayo helis and recognize they can be quite loud as I even hear them from inside my home. I am hoping this new neighbor doesn’t build a helipad in the middle of our densely populated lake neighborhood but instead uses the nearby airstrip like others do. Safety and legalities aside, I don’t believe it is an appropriate site for many other reasons.

Jennie · January 31, 2020

2 hours ago, RisePilot said:

If the person had wanted to land at the airport, he/she would have bought an airplane. As long as it meets some basic parameters, this can be fine.

I'm assuming your looking for fodder for a complaint (first post). I'll note that helicopters do not specifically require an aerodrome and can take-off and land in quite small sites safely.

There are a few other helis that use airstrip and/or airport. Tragic accident last year at airport with heli going down.

Jennie · January 31, 2020

1 hour ago, TomPPL said:

Sounds like a quiet and peaceful place - what would the neighbours think about it?

It is. Neighbors shocked. Many have lived there all their lives and have enjoyed the loons, ducks, geese, eagles etc. great fishing of dock, lots of lake dwellers besides humans.

Hobie · January 31, 2020

Sounds like this may be a trauma center. Are they currently landing on their own hospital property? Just how many flights per week would you estimate?

If so, very different situation vs. a private owner wanting to fly out of his backyard.

Jennie · January 31, 2020

6 hours ago, TomPPL said:

Sounds like a quiet and peaceful place - what would the neighbours think about it?

It is. Neighbors shocked. Many have lived there all their lives and have enjoyed the loons, ducks, geese, eagles etc. great fishing of dock, lots of lake dwellers besides humans.

Jennie · January 31, 2020

Hobie- the heli is just picking up a patient to transport elsewhere. It lands on the roof. It is on hospital property far away from neighborhoods. Yes it’s a lot different than this guy wanting to use one to get around. I’m not opposed to helicopters at all. Just don’t want to open the door to heli traffic on the usually quiet, idyllic lake front. To land it would have to come straight at the lakeshore towards the center of a densely populated neighborhood. 50’ from next door neighbor.

Hobie · January 31, 2020

I hope that there is not that many trauma injuries happening in you local surrounds! I wouldn't think that the occasional medical helicopter flight will prompt a flurry of new helo activity especially landing on hospital roof and with an airport so nearby. Your initial post indicated safety. Those pilots flying medical are among the best and the helos are very well maintained.

Jennie · January 31, 2020

5 minutes ago, Hobie said:

I hope that there is not that many trauma injuries happening in you local surrounds! I wouldn't think that the occasional medical helicopter flight will prompt a flurry of new helo activity especially landing on hospital roof and with an airport so nearby. Your initial post indicated safety. Those pilots flying medical are among the best and the helos are very well maintained.

3 hours ago, Hobie said:

Sounds like this may be a trauma center. Are they currently landing on their own hospital property? Just how many flights per week would you estimate?

If so, very different situation vs. a private owner wanting to fly out of his backyard.

5 minutes ago, Hobie said:

I hope that there is not that many trauma injuries happening in you local surrounds! I wouldn't think that the occasional medical helicopter flight will prompt a flurry of new helo activity especially landing on hospital roof and with an airport so nearby. Your initial post indicated safety. Those pilots flying medical are among the best and the helos are very well maintained.

Jennie · January 31, 2020

Hobie- we live in a different city and have a lake cabin A few hours away. Common in Minnesota. The hospital helicopter traffic doesn’t bother me. They fly right above our home. I always feel sad when I hear them as it means someone has been injured badly enough or other wisely needs transfer to Mayo Rochester. Our hospital isn’t as equipped to handle some cases so they stabilize the patient then fly them out.
And yes I agree - we know a Mayo heli pilot. He’s top notch. Safety aside, there are other more potentially injurious issues I am concerned about. Not the human physical kind. But the environmental and “quality of lake life” kind. Perhaps this fellow is used to flying everywhere in his heli. But he’s a rare cat in this neck of the woods. The folks living on the lake are pretty typical midwesterners. They like the lake quiet, serene, safe, friendly to kids and wildlife, etc. they frown upon loud boats and have even enacted an ordinance to keep the “Wake boats” with loud speakers and big wakes far from shore.
Regarding safety, I am no expert. thats not my only concern. interesting story- At one time my sister was responsible for deer counts in a city in Iowa. She was asked to fly with heli pilot to do a count. He told her that the highest cause of death among wildlife biologists was heli crashes. Whether he was being factual or anecdotal, she politely declined to complete the count. Thanks for your feedback. I’m not against this form of transportation. I just think there’s a better solution for this situation.

Thedude · January 31, 2020

It’s the owner’s property to do with as the owner desires. If it isn’t illegal to land a helicopter there then the pilot can do it if they want.

Jennie · January 31, 2020

Hobie- we live in a different city and have a lake cabin A few hours away. Common in Minnesota. The hospital helicopter traffic doesn’t bother me. They fly right above our home. I always feel sad when I hear them as it means someone has been injured badly enough or other wisely needs transfer to Mayo Rochester. Our hospital isn’t as equipped to handle some cases so they stabilize the patient then fly them out.
And yes I agree - we know a Mayo heli pilot. He’s top notch. Safety aside, there are other more potentially injurious issues I am concerned about. Not the human physical kind. But the environmental and “quality of lake life” kind. Perhaps this fellow is used to flying everywhere in his heli. But he’s a rare cat in this neck of the woods. The folks living on the lake are pretty typical midwesterners. They like the lake quiet, serene, safe, friendly to kids and wildlife, etc. they frown upon loud boats and have even enacted an ordinance to keep the “Wake boats” with loud speakers and big wakes far from shore.
Regarding safety, I am no expert. thats not my only concern. interesting story- At one time my sister was responsible for deer counts in a city in Iowa. She was asked to fly with heli pilot to do a count. He told her that the highest cause of death among wildlife biologists was heli crashes. Whether he was being factual or anecdotal, she politely declined to complete the count. Thanks for your feedback. I’m not against this form of transportation. I just think there’s a better solution for this situation.

Jennie · January 31, 2020

The dude - of course he can do whatever he wants. He doesn’t have to be concerned at all for anyone other than himself.

iChris · February 1, 2020

On 1/31/2020 at 3:36 PM, Jennie said:

Interesting story- At one time my sister was responsible for deer counts in a city in Iowa.

She was asked to fly with heli pilot to do a count. He told her that the highest cause of death among wildlife biologists was heli crashes. Whether he was being factual or anecdotal, she politely declined to complete the count. Thanks for your feedback. I’m not against this form of transportation. I just think there’s a better solution for this situation.

The quote was Aviation accidents....

Job-related mortality of wildlife workers in the United States, 1937-2000

“Abstract Wildlife biologists face a variety of job-related hazards that are unique to this profession, most of them involving the remote areas where work is performed and the unusual techniques used to study or manage wildlife. Information on biologists and others killed while conducting wildlife research or management was obtained from state and federal natural resources agencies, solicitations on wildlife-based internet discussion groups, and published obituaries.

Ninety-one (91) job-related deaths were documented from 1937 to 2000. Aviation accidents, drowning, car and truck accidents, and murder were the most common causes of death. Thirty-nine (39) aviation accidents accounted for 66% of deaths, with aerodynamic stalls and power-line collisions being the most significant causes of accidents for which information was available. These safety threats should be taken into consideration during the design and planning of future research and management projects.”

REF: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3784446?seq=1

Some communities have enacted zoning laws, building codes, fire regulations, etc. that can affect establishment of helicopter landings in residential neighborhoods.

They’ve developed codes or ordinances regulating environmental issues such as noise and air pollution. A few localities have enacted specific rules governing the establishment of a heliport. Therefore, contact officials or agencies representing the local zoning board, the fire, police, or sheriff's department, City Council, and the Mayor’s office.

Get with your neighbors, kill it at the local level, and the FAA will not approve it in opposition to local laws.

Also: http://stophelipad.org/home.shtml

Edited February 7, 2020 by iChris

Hand_Grenade_Pilot · February 1, 2020

On 1/30/2020 at 1:57 PM, Jennie said:

What do you think about the safety and appropriateness of a helicopter/ pad being located in the middle of a residential neighborhood 50’ from lake and neighbors. There is an airstrip 3 miles away and an airport 15 min away. Small, quiet, lake town with no current helicopter ordinance.

It’s not possible for anyone here to honestly answer that with so little information.

An experienced pilot, with a well maintained aircraft, who uses a conservative approach / departure path and is mindful of the community should not be a problem.

On the other extreme, it could be some weekend warrior with a shoddy home-built experimental, lacking basic pilots skills, buzzing roof tops at all hours in which case that clearly is a problem.

You haven’t given us any information about the pilot, the aircraft or even a satellite image of the area to assess how they could go about landing and departing. So there’s really nothing to be gained from this discussion.

I would suggest inviting your neighbor over for a cup of coffee and getting to know them. Have a polite conversation about your concerns and see if there is a way you can work together to maintain balance in the community. Discussion points could include not flying after certain hours, frequency of use, intended take-off and departure path, and potential hazards.

Jennie · February 1, 2020

26 minutes ago, Hand_Grenade_Pilot said:

It’s not possible for anyone here to honestly answer that with so little information.

An experienced pilot, with a well maintained aircraft, who uses a conservative approach / departure path and is mindful of the community should not be a problem.

On the other extreme, it could be some weekend warrior with a shoddy home-built experimental, lacking basic pilots skills, buzzing roof tops at all hours in which case that clearly is a problem.

You haven’t given us any information about the pilot, the aircraft or even a satellite image of the area to assess how they could go about landing and departing. So there’s really nothing to be gained from this discussion.

I would suggest inviting your neighbor over for a cup of coffee and getting to know them. Have a polite conversation about your concerns and see if there is a way you can work together to maintain balance in the community. Discussion points could include not flying after certain hours, frequency of use, intended take-off and departure path, and potential hazards.

Hi hand grenade pilot. Thanks for your input. I disagree about “nothing to gain” from this discussion. I’ve learned a lot reading all the comments. I really appreciate everyone chiming in. I am just looking for some honest opinions from heli pilots. Not safety, piloting skills, or flight plan critique. As I’ve said a few times, ASIDE from the safety issues, (let’s assume he is an excellent pilot and has top notch heli etc. take accidents out of the discussion) other issues such as noise, sand and shore land erosion, noxious fumes (neighbors 50’ away) downdraft from rotors, children playing at the beach, wildlife and waterfowl disruption, disruption of quiet lakeshore ambiance, etc. just gut feelings. Not scientific analysis. Is this the best landing location solution in this case. That’s all.
Apparently the fellow did take a bottle of wine to a couple closest neighbors and introduced himself. Could be an ok guy. But really, if so, I wonder if he would take this self serving stance in the face of all the neighbor opposition. Given his behavior at the city council meetings he seems to not care what the neighbors think. That's his preogative. And if that’s the kind of guy he is we won’t Invite him over. No changing his stripes.

Jennie · February 1, 2020

Thanks iChris for the helpful info. Really appreciate it.

Hobie · February 1, 2020

I'm confused. So they guy who met neighbors with wine was the Mayo pilot? And he attended a city council meeting too?

How many flights per day are we talking?

Eric Hunt · February 1, 2020

Different country and different times, I know, but in the 90s I was sometimes asked to fly a JetRanger to a house, right on Sydney Harbour and surrounded by multi-squillion dollar properties. His landing area was a tiny pier, on which he had a dolly on rails which then took the chopper into the hangar under his house.

It was tight, and when I brought a LongRanger there, it barely fitted onto it, the rotor clearance was minimal. The neighbours never said a thing. But the pad was on a "grandfather clause", and when he sold the chopper, the permit to use the pad was revoked.

Since then, though, the anti-helicopter brigade (one particular political party) has killed any chance of helicopters landing anywhere other than the airports.

Jennie · February 2, 2020

Hey Eric. Thanks for your story! That’s awesome! Piloting is obviously your calling. It amazes me the level of confidence pilots have. (And assures me!).
We know a couple jet pilots and the one heli guy. I just admire the heck out of them.

Jennie · February 2, 2020

Hobie- I’m sorry. My emailing is getting my two stories intertwined.
The Mayo pilot we know flies To and from Rochester MN. We’ve know him since he was a little boy. He isn’t the “new lake neighbor” that I’m talking about. I was just saying I knew a helicopter pilot and he’s a good guy and I can hear them flying over our house. That’s all.
This soon to be new neighbor on the lake is a different guy. Different city about 3 hrs away. He is a business man that just bought an old place that he’s tearing down and building a new home and wants to build a heli pad next to house. He is the one taking the wine to a couple neighbors and the rather poor behavior at the lake city council meeting. He is asking for an open schedule to fly in and out whenever.

Hobie · February 2, 2020

Ok. Got it. Another way to think about this is that if the guy is renovating an old property, and has the $ for a helo, maybe he will be pulling up the property values of the neighborhood. I wouldn't expect he will be making multiple flights per day, occasionally enjoying the lake just the same as the neighbors.

I bet if you asked for daylight flights only, he would be receptive. You guys might even get free rides now and then Personally, I wouldn't object to the medical flights. You never know when you might need that service. YMMV.