Former military to civilian awkward experience zone hurdle advice

[I3uller]

I'm a recently separated UH-60M IP/AMC that's now finding myself in the Covid civilian world in an awkward spot trying to figure out the best path forward. I originally got my rotary PPL in an S-300 as a civilian and now have Commercial CFII Rotary with S-70 type and about 1150 total time. When I got my PPL (~2009), it seemed like once you passed 1000 hours, a lot of opportunities opened up. But as I research open pilot positions across the country that doesn't seem to hold true anymore. It seems like every job requires at least 1500 PIC helicopter time with a lot of specific experience I don't have (fire fighting, powerline work, etc). I'd be happy to teach to build the time but without the Robinson SFAR met it would require a significant personal investment to get that done.

I seem to find myself in an awkward spot. I have experience as a PIC, instructor, and mission commander in a 20 million dollar complex helicopter in less than ideal combat conditions but don't find myself qualified to do much in the civilian world. I'm hoping to gain some insight as to the best way forward to make myself more marketable and continue my rotary career in the civilian world. Teaching seems like the best option but with the lack of S300 schools I'm wondering if the investment to meet SFAR requirements for Robinsons would be worth it. I'm open to any options out there and appreciate any insight I can get. I have already used my CH 33 GI Bill benefits for a Bachelor's and am currently working with CH 31 to try and get what I can from that but flight training is not easy to get there. Overseas civilian contractor positions also aren't going to work for me either unfortunately (lower back issues with body armor). Looking forward to learning as much as I can from everyone here and thank you for your help!

 

Ryan

[SBuzzkill]

I had ~1700 total hours when I got out and tours in Vegas was the most promising prospect I was looking at.  During normal times there’s seasonal work that pops up you could qualify for, and might as well apply to the higher minimums jobs and see if you can get any interviews.  Customs and Border Protection might be an option, I don’t know how competitive it is these days but definitely give it a shot.  There’s also the Guard to pad your transition a bit.  It sucks out there right now that’s for sure.

[I3uller]

8 minutes ago, SBuzzkill said:

I had ~1700 total hours when I got out and tours in Vegas was the most promising prospect I was looking at.  During normal times there’s seasonal work that pops up you could qualify for, and might as well apply to the higher minimums jobs and see if you can get any interviews.  Customs and Border Protection might be an option, I don’t know how competitive it is these days but definitely give it a shot.  There’s also the Guard to pad your transition a bit.  It sucks out there right now that’s for sure.

Have a friend who interviewed and everything through CBP but as soon as Covid hit they put him on indefinite pause so he's still sitting on his hands. Guard isn't an option due to the lower back body armor business unfortunately. Been applying to everywhere that requires 1500 with no luck so far. Looking at maybe trying to dry cherries this coming season in WA but who knows. I'd be more than happy to fly AS350's in Vegas for sure but not sure if they're even still doing that. I'll look into it and send out some resumes. I'm fine financially (wife is a PA) so that helps a ton but yeah...times are tough. Thanks for the tips though I appreciate the help!

[SBuzzkill]

A friend of mine was at Papillon for a few years.  Lots of turnover so I imagine if you're persistent you can eventually land a job there.  Have you thought about applying to whoever the contractor is now at Rucker?  I'm sure that's pretty competitive, but should be an option with you being an IP right?  I've been out of the loop for a few years now, wish I could help more.  

Edited January 8, 2021 by SBuzzkill

[I3uller]

3 minutes ago, SBuzzkill said:

A friend of mine was at Papillon for a few years.  Lots of turnover so I imagine if you're persistent you can eventually land a job there.  Have you thought about applying to whoever the contractor is now at Rucker?  I'm sure that's pretty competitive, but should be an option with you being an IP right?  I've been out of the loop for a few years now, wish I could help more.  

Not a bad idea actually for Rucker. Teaching BWS could be alright...

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

20 hours ago, I3uller said:

I'm a recently separated UH-60M IP/AMC that's now finding myself in the Covid civilian world in an awkward spot trying to figure out the best path forward. I originally got my rotary PPL in an S-300 as a civilian and now have Commercial CFII Rotary with S-70 type and about 1150 total time. When I got my PPL (~2009), it seemed like once you passed 1000 hours, a lot of opportunities opened up. But as I research open pilot positions across the country that doesn't seem to hold true anymore. It seems like every job requires at least 1500 PIC helicopter time with a lot of specific experience I don't have (fire fighting, powerline work, etc). I'd be happy to teach to build the time but without the Robinson SFAR met it would require a significant personal investment to get that done.

I seem to find myself in an awkward spot. I have experience as a PIC, instructor, and mission commander in a 20 million dollar complex helicopter in less than ideal combat conditions but don't find myself qualified to do much in the civilian world. I'm hoping to gain some insight as to the best way forward to make myself more marketable and continue my rotary career in the civilian world. Teaching seems like the best option but with the lack of S300 schools I'm wondering if the investment to meet SFAR requirements for Robinsons would be worth it. I'm open to any options out there and appreciate any insight I can get. I have already used my CH 33 GI Bill benefits for a Bachelor's and am currently working with CH 31 to try and get what I can from that but flight training is not easy to get there. Overseas civilian contractor positions also aren't going to work for me either unfortunately (lower back issues with body armor). Looking forward to learning as much as I can from everyone here and thank you for your help!

 

Ryan

If you haven’t already, check out RLC. They’re one of the main companies providing offshore support in the Gulf of Mexico. The oil/gas industry isn’t doing too great right now, but traditionally RLC has been a good place to gain experience and hires pilots at your experience level.

I don’t know if they are currently hiring; if not keep following up with them and eventually a position will open up.

https://www.rlcllc.com/

[Spike]

Go to the Helicopter Association Internationals HeliExpo and attend the "Military to Civilian Transition" course. IMHO, it's a good course well worth the time and effort. 

[I3uller]

On 1/11/2021 at 5:31 PM, Spike said:

Go to the Helicopter Association Internationals HeliExpo and attend the "Military to Civilian Transition" course. IMHO, it's a good course well worth the time and effort. 

Definitely planning on doing this for next year. Also going to the RTAG convention (they have a lot of rotary stuff as well at the convention). I'm currently working with an operator at a new satellite tour location in Idaho but it has been VERY slow to start. We'll see if it pans out. Are there any good tour operators you know of that fly a ton? I would be happy flying 8 hours a day non stop to get to 2000 for EMS work. 

[PRJ]

You could come east and fly tours around NYC and build time super fast. Also, Chesapeake Helicopters is, I think, looking for a MD-500 pilot and accepts 1000 hours. I’ll also add that the roughly $5000 bucks for the R44 SFAR course will open countless doors for you. It might be worth it to just get a short term loan. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by PRJ
Forgot to mention something

[I3uller]

8 hours ago, PRJ said:

You could come east and fly tours around NYC and build time super fast. Also, Chesapeake Helicopters is, I think, looking for a MD-500 pilot and accepts 1000 hours. I’ll also add that the roughly $5000 bucks for the R44 SFAR course will open countless doors for you. It might be worth it to just get a short term loan. 

I’ll definitely look into Chesapeake. I’ve always wanted to fly the 500. I was also looking around NYC as well, didn’t know it was that fast of a time builder. I do have my R44 PIC sign off so I’m good there. Happy to fly it but would obviously prefer turbine. Thanks for the tips!

[adam32]

If you're still in Ventura then you shouldn't have an issue finding work, SoCal/NorCal is the mecca of helicopters. Apply to everyone running Blackhawks and get a SIC job until you meet OAS times then move into the PIC. 

[I3uller]

27 minutes ago, adam32 said:

If you're still in Ventura then you shouldn't have an issue finding work, SoCal/NorCal is the mecca of helicopters. Apply to everyone running Blackhawks and get a SIC job until you meet OAS times then move into the PIC. 

Is SIC very valuable in civilian world though? In the Army you’re hands on flying more often as SIC and logging PIC time, I’ve heard as SIC in civilian you basically just sit and watch gauges. Seems like it wouldn’t be very valuable time with all the helicopter PIC time needed in the industry?

[Spike]

34 minutes ago, I3uller said:

Is SIC very valuable in civilian world though? In the Army you’re hands on flying more often as SIC and logging PIC time, I’ve heard as SIC in civilian you basically just sit and watch gauges. Seems like it wouldn’t be very valuable time with all the helicopter PIC time needed in the industry?

Without getting into the weeds, it appears you need to go talk to people working in the business. Learn about the industry you're planning to work in. The internet will provide you with some basic info but, a lot of that info is based on opinion.  Therefore, go out and press some flesh and talk to people (working pilots) face to face and get some tangible intel. And COVID is no longer a hindrance to meeting people....

Your first goal should be to get your foot in the door. Your original post was on Jan 8..... What have you done since then to further your goal? 

BTW, IMHO, for you, yes, SIC would be valuable. 

v/r

[I3uller]

12 hours ago, Spike said:

Without getting into the weeds, it appears you need to go talk to people working in the business. Learn about the industry you're planning to work in. The internet will provide you with some basic info but, a lot of that info is based on opinion.  Therefore, go out and press some flesh and talk to people (working pilots) face to face and get some tangible intel. And COVID is no longer a hindrance to meeting people....

Your first goal should be to get your foot in the door. Your original post was on Jan 8..... What have you done since then to further your goal? 

BTW, IMHO, for you, yes, SIC would be valuable. 

v/r

I absolutely have more to learn and am happy to do so whenever I can. I've spoken to some folks I know in the industry but don't know/haven't met any current/prior SIC's or even really any two pilot operators outside of the military. Seems to be somewhat more rare outside of fire/heavy lift. From the little I have heard it seems to be non sole manipulator and difficult to build any PIC time with. I was basing my question off the job postings I have seen which almost all request x amount of PIC helicopter time (many at 2000+ which I don't have and would need to build).

 

I did get my R44 SFAR PIC sign off completed out of pocket to pick up some work at a new tour base but it has been pretty slow so far hence my revisit to this thread. Just trying to plan out the future if this doesn't work out and hopefully find somewhere I can fly a lot and work hard. I'm completely open to any and all suggestions though. Do you mind elaborating on why SIC would be valuable for me?

[adam32]

11 hours ago, I3uller said:

Do you mind elaborating on why SIC would be valuable for me?

It's a foot in the door for a future PIC seat and possible long term career. Most operators running two pilot ships also have lighter helicopters that they may rotate you into to build time if they see potential in you...

Have you ever long lined single pilot?

[I3uller]

34 minutes ago, adam32 said:

It's a foot in the door for a future PIC seat and possible long term career. Most operators running two pilot ships also have lighter helicopters that they may rotate you into to build time if they see potential in you...

Have you ever long lined single pilot?

Single pilot I have not. I’m leaning mostly towards EMS as the end goal. 

[Wally]

On 1/8/2021 at 2:39 PM, I3uller said:

I'm a recently separated UH-60M IP/AMC that's now finding myself in the Covid civilian world in an awkward spot trying to figure out the best path forward. I originally got my rotary PPL in an S-300 as a civilian and now have Commercial CFII Rotary with S-70 type and about 1150 total time. When I got my PPL (~2009), it seemed like once you passed 1000 hours, a lot of opportunities opened up. But as I research open pilot positions across the country that doesn't seem to hold true anymore. It seems like every job requires at least 1500 PIC helicopter time with a lot of specific experience I don't have (fire fighting, powerline work, etc). I'd be happy to teach to build the time but without the Robinson SFAR met it would require a significant personal investment to get that done.

I seem to find myself in an awkward spot. I have experience as a PIC, instructor, and mission commander in a 20 million dollar complex helicopter in less than ideal combat conditions but don't find myself qualified to do much in the civilian world. I'm hoping to gain some insight as to the best way forward to make myself more marketable and continue my rotary career in the civilian world. Teaching seems like the best option but with the lack of S300 schools I'm wondering if the investment to meet SFAR requirements for Robinsons would be worth it. I'm open to any options out there and appreciate any insight I can get. I have already used my CH 33 GI Bill benefits for a Bachelor's and am currently working with CH 31 to try and get what I can from that but flight training is not easy to get there. Overseas civilian contractor positions also aren't going to work for me either unfortunately (lower back issues with body armor). Looking forward to learning as much as I can from everyone here and thank you for your help!

 

Ryan

Instruct. Let the student pay for the flight time. Get Robbie qualified and teach, network and build some time. 1500 hours in your log book is pretty limited experience in the aviation world.

[helonorth]

I would look at Grand Canyon tour operators. Lots of pilots with your hours have built a lot of time quickly doing this.

[adam32]

6 hours ago, I3uller said:

Single pilot I have not. I’m leaning mostly towards EMS as the end goal. 

If HEMS is your goal then instructing and/or tours will be your best bet.

And get as much night/NVG time as possible. 

[I3uller]

3 hours ago, helonorth said:

I would look at Grand Canyon tour operators. Lots of pilots with your hours have built a lot of time quickly doing this.

Will definitely look into that. Hoping with the covid restrictions lifting that they’re flying some more! 

[I3uller]

1 hour ago, adam32 said:

If HEMS is your goal then instructing and/or tours will be your best bet.

And get as much night/NVG time as possible. 

That’s pretty much what I figured would be best. I have about 240 NVG hours right now, will be trying to get a lot more night unaided as well. I greatly appreciate all the mentorship from everyone! 

[adam32]

14 hours ago, I3uller said:

That’s pretty much what I figured would be best. I have about 240 NVG hours right now, will be trying to get a lot more night unaided as well. I greatly appreciate all the mentorship from everyone! 

 

Just remember that HEMS is boring as hell and you'll be lucky to fly a couple hundred hours a year. 

[helonorth]

15 minutes ago, adam32 said:

 

Just remember that HEMS is boring as hell and you'll be lucky to fly a couple hundred hours a year. 

Ever done it?

[adam32]

58 minutes ago, helonorth said:

Ever done it?

 

Nope and never will, but know plenty of HEMS pilots and it's a "retirement" job. Straight and level, point A to point B ambulance in the air. Lots of time for netflix and internet forums tho. 

[helonorth]

Stay at a Holiday Inn last night, too?