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Bell 206 time building.


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#1 PAGDPM

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 17:55

I am looking to build flight time in the Bell 206 Jetranger. I am approved by the insured insurance company to fly the aircraft if (1) I get 3 hours flight time with a CFI,(2) Fly 5 hours solo before carrying passengers,(3) complete annual flight review. I don't own the aircraft.  I have a friend who leases it.  It would cost $750/hour (wet) and $9000.00 to be added to his insurance policy.  Thoughts?                    Thanks, Paul 



#2 r22butters

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 22:59

So, 8hrs at $750 then $9000 to be added to his policy? What's that, like $15k total just to fly your friends 206?

Well as someone who just joyrides around myself, that $15k would get me 60 hours in an R22, and as someone who has flown a 206, I can tell you the view is just the same, so, why pay more?

After you spend this money to get on with his insurance, then what? Are you going to continue to fly it at $750/hr? If so, then all I can say is, that's a lot of money to waste on a jet ranger!
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The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fifteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D

#3 helonorth

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 12:43

I would probably pass on that depending on how much time you want. You could contact this guy, though. He advertises $950 an hour but will do a discount if you want more time. If you could agree to $850 for a 5 hour block, that would only be $100 an hour more than you are paying now but you will not be SOL if the aircraft goes down for MX for an extended period of time or (God forbid) somebody crashes it, etc. and still have the 9 grand in your pocket.

 

http://wessonaviatio...er/?view=mobile

 

I normally (strongly) do not recommend spending ANY money for turbine time. I would spend it on the R-44 and keep plugging away for a job.

 

You can PM me for a contact in northern Georgia for 206 time that is much cheaper. $500 an hour.


Edited by helonorth, 26 November 2016 - 12:49.

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#4 RagMan

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 07:37

Sooooo, you're looking to build the 8 hours so you may be added to his insurance policy, which at then you can continue to build 206 time by flying his aircraft for him doing whatever, is this correct?

What's the deal with the $9000 tab, and Would you be paying that $9000 tab?

It would help if your situation you described made a bit more sense, and people would be able to help you out more accordingly. This sounds like a horrible idea for getting 206 time, IMO. That's a lot of cash out of your pocket ($9,000!)

 


#5 PAGDPM

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 10:50

Sooooo, you're looking to build the 8 hours so you may be added to his insurance policy, which at then you can continue to build 206 time by flying his aircraft for him doing whatever, is this correct?

What's the deal with the $9000 tab, and Would you be paying that $9000 tab?

It would help if your situation you described made a bit more sense, and people would be able to help you out more accordingly. This sounds like a horrible idea for getting 206 time, IMO. That's a lot of cash out of your pocket ($9,000!)

Yes I would be paying the $9000.00 to be added. I have another pilot who would need the same initial and recurrent training as myself.  If he decided to fly the aircraft it would then cost $11,000.00 ($5500.00 each) for the 2 of us to be added to the policy. Not trying to build time just want to be able to fly the aircraft.  I currently have nearly 250 hours ASEL,220 hours R22/R44 time  and 172 hours OH-58 A-C time.



#6 helonorth

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 14:09

I am looking to build flight time in the Bell 206 Jetranger. 

 

 

 Not trying to build time 

 

Oh, I get it.



#7 RagMan

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 18:48

And why can't you submit your Oh58 time to satisfy the insurance requirements?

 


#8 r22butters

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 19:17

And why can't you submit your Oh58 time to satisfy the insurance requirements?

That's like asking why can't I use any of my 600+ hrs of R22 time to satisfy the insurance requirements to do photo work in an R22 Mariner!

,...or why I can pay to fly a 206 with just 400hrs, but I can't get paid to fly it until I have 1000hrs!
:D
The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fifteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D

#9 RagMan

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 21:58

Yeah. That's a lot of hilarious discussion all in itself.

Back to the OP; That's a lot of coin to throw down just to get signed off to fly a bell jet ranger. I would highly advise you reconsider the situation.

Edited by RagMan, 27 November 2016 - 23:15.

 


#10 PAGDPM

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 08:56

And why can't you submit your Oh58 time to satisfy the insurance requirements?

I did submit that time which they accepted but they also want same Make and Model.  So, I now have to fly 3 hours with my CFI who they have accepted to get an endorsement then fly 5 hours solo before carrying passengers. Cost is $750./hour plus $5500.($11,000. divided by 2) if another pilot wants to be added to the insurance or $9000. if just myself is added. Thankfully, I don't have to attend Bell school in Texas.



#11 WolftalonID

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 11:17

Better question is why wont the person who owns the aircraft pony up the cost to train and insure you to fly for them? Many companies out there understand the cost involved to have pilots working for them, and are willing to train, insure, and bring them up the ladder. Companies that take care of their people tend to build loyal pilots that stay and grow wih them a long time and the cost to train and insure the pilot will pay off. Companies who treat their pilots like a disposable tool either charge for that training or just dont ever offer it and they tend to loose their pilots regularly.

Many companies that pay to train will however ask for a contract of say a season, year, or so to compensate for the cost and the pilot is fully aware of the contract going in to the deal. This method builds a mutual respect and responsibility of the training and reasonable layer of expectations of work to be performed in exchange for that training.

We all paid something to learn to fly, be it cash, service to a country, loans, first borns, etc.(wives dont count as payments...lol) Pilots who have hours showing safe, and dedicated skills will find respect amongst employers.....but only when their actions, attitude, and reputation match their professional skill sets.

I suggest you talk with the guy and see where they stand with your flying in a long term interest with the company....if they just cant answer with a direct yes or no...be cautious.
Sometimes we think we know it all....only later to discover we only knew all we had learned. Never stop learning.

#12 r22butters

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 12:46

Better question is why wont the person who owns the aircraft pony up the cost to train and insure you to fly for them?

I was given the impression that his friend is just some dude with a 206 and not a company looking for pilots, and he just wants to fly for personal reasons?

,...and Ragman, I liked your first response better! :D

Many companies that pay to train will however ask for a contract of say a season, year, or so to compensate for the cost and the pilot is fully aware of the contract going in to the deal. This method builds a mutual respect and responsibility of the training and reasonable layer of expectations of work to be performed in exchange for that training.

Funny thing, if it weren't for the penalties of the contract looming over my head, I would have tried to stick it out at Helislave Adventures for the whole season. I feel bad about leaving, like I pussied out, but also feel like that contract backed me into a corner!

,...and I wouldn't call fear an element for mutual respect!

Edited by r22butters, 28 November 2016 - 12:56.

The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fifteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D

#13 PAGDPM

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 13:34

Better question is why wont the person who owns the aircraft pony up the cost to train and insure you to fly for them? Many companies out there understand the cost involved to have pilots working for them, and are willing to train, insure, and bring them up the ladder. Companies that take care of their people tend to build loyal pilots that stay and grow wih them a long time and the cost to train and insure the pilot will pay off. Companies who treat their pilots like a disposable tool either charge for that training or just dont ever offer it and they tend to loose their pilots regularly.

Many companies that pay to train will however ask for a contract of say a season, year, or so to compensate for the cost and the pilot is fully aware of the contract going in to the deal. This method builds a mutual respect and responsibility of the training and reasonable layer of expectations of work to be performed in exchange for that training.

We all paid something to learn to fly, be it cash, service to a country, loans, first borns, etc.(wives dont count as payments...lol) Pilots who have hours showing safe, and dedicated skills will find respect amongst employers.....but only when their actions, attitude, and reputation match their professional skill sets.

I suggest you talk with the guy and see where they stand with your flying in a long term interest with the company....if they just cant answer with a direct yes or no...be cautious.

Actually, this helicopter he uses personally.  I want to get checked out in it so I can become insured and fly family and friends.


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#14 Pohi

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 16:48

So the 9k is for the insurance company itself? As in what the policy increase would be per year, or a one time fee?

#15 PAGDPM

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 16:55

So the 9k is for the insurance company itself? As in what the policy increase would be per year, or a one time fee?

The $9000. would be to add me to his insurance per year until I can meet the open pilot clause which I don't have the details for as of yet but I believe it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 turbine hours.



#16 WolftalonID

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:16

In that case...its only money. It grows back in a year or so...so enjoy if you can right now. Life doesnt wait for anyone.
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Sometimes we think we know it all....only later to discover we only knew all we had learned. Never stop learning.

#17 r22butters

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:42

The $9000. would be to add me to his insurance per year until I can meet the open pilot clause which I don't have the details for as of yet but I believe it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 turbine hours.

So wait, $9000 per year until you have 750 turbine hours, plus $750/hr to fly it?!

Man, you've got one hellava bonner for the 206!

,...wouldn't a Lamborghini be cheaper?
The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fifteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D

#18 PAGDPM

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:15

So wait, $9000 per year until you have 750 turbine hours, plus $750/hr to fly it?!

Man, you've got one hellava bonner for the 206!

,...wouldn't a Lamborghini be cheaper?

Haven't looked into a Lambo.  



#19 DizzyD

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:26

Note of caution, IMHO meeting the policies open pilot requirements only ensures the aircraft owner's coverage will be in effect of an insurable event.  You, however, will be wide open to "subrogation", meaning the insurance company pays the claim then pursues you for reimbursement. I'm no insurance expert but you should know your exposure.



#20 Pohi

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 13:36

If that 9k per year is a fixed cost, plus the 750 an hour...I'd say that it all depends on how much you plan on flying it. That 9k hit gets way less painful the more you would fly.

I'd suggest breaking it down to an hourly cost and see if that is acceptable to you.

10 hours a year would be 1650 an hour, 20 hours a year would be 1200 an hour, etc...
(If my math is correct) But to get the hourly cost down, you are going to have to
spend 25-50k a year flying around. And...if you have that kind of money to blow, then you might not have even asked the question in the first place :-)




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