A Question for Newbies

[r22butters]

I was just wondering, what draws in all you newbies these days?

 

Back when I started, I was lured in by the "pilot shortage", "jobs a plenty", and loan money that was as easy to get as a $1 double cheeseburger.

 

Now, however, things are the complete opposite, yet you newbies keep coming?

 

If someone had told me that there was an extreme surplus of pilots, and that after spending 70k to become a "Professional Pilot", I would still not be "qualified" for 99.99% of jobs out there, and even if I was, there aren't enough jobs for every pilot who wants one, I would have looked for a career elsewhere (which ironically is what I'm doing anyway).

 

So again, what's drawing all of you into this?

[Spike]

I would have looked for a career elsewhere (which ironically is what I'm doing anyway).

 

 

So what worthwhile careers have you come across that has more jobs then people? Pretty sure there is at least 9.1% (current rate of unemployment) of the population whod like to know……

 

Again, it's the red "-" at the lower right.....

Edited January 22, 2011 by Spike

[uberchris]

ready for my novel?

 

when i was a kid i was absolutely PETRIFIED of flying, especially in commercial planes. anything that flew just scared me. my parents made me see a shrink when i was 10 because i had broke down, freaked out, started crying and nearly had a heart attack on a short plane ride from vegas to cali. i used to have recurring plane crash nightmares 1-2 times a month, that would circulate in my mind all nite during sleep, over and over and over until morning.

 

as i got older i decided i needed to do something about facing my fears. i took a helicopter ride , and did my first tandem skydive. the helicopter was amazing, it didnt scare me, i was blown away and drawn by it. then i did my second tandem jump, then third, next thing i knew i got my skydiving license, and as scared as i was of planes (especially those little ones), i noticed i got slightly more relaxed each jump. when i had around 80 or 90 jumps, i realized, "holy sh*t", i looked at myself and realized i was sitting right next to the open door up to altitude with one of my legs sticking out, totally incognito, as mellow as a person could be, and at that moment i had conquered my fear of flying. not only that but i also realized that i had become absolutely amazed and interested in aviation, and started bugging my pilot buddies on rides up to altitude about how things worked and what did what.

 

finally at that point i started researching helicopter flight schools, and concluded that the only way it would happen was by joining the military. so here i am, 4 years later, trying to lay out the groundwork to get my rotary wing pilots license.........

Edited January 22, 2011 by uberchris

[EC120AV8R]

 

Again, it's the red "-" at the lower right.....

 

Now, that's funny.

[dusttinbound]

I grew up around helicopters (dad was crew chief for a local EMS program) so me learning to fly helicopters was just a matter of time and money. I was going to go the military route but wanted to finish college. By then I was to old to join. Then I started looking into civilian schools. I never bought the whole pilot shortage thing so that was never a driving force for me. To me the pilot shortage was away for schools to get some money. I have seen it many times in the fixed wing world. Do I wish I had a helicopter gig yes. However, I have a fixed wing job now which works for me now but I am still looking for helicopter jobs.

[kodoz]

I was just wondering, what draws in all you newbies these days?

 

The greater fool theory?

 

For the new guys thinking of getting in, especially now, "Having a dream is not a plan."

[palmfish]

And a green "+" for Spike.

 

Done and done.

[ajbell999]

Not to sound condescending but, I started because I wanted to be a pilot. Not because someone sold me on the idea. Yeah, sure, it was a ton of money, but I needed to do this. It wasn't a business decision, it was very personal.

 

If you ask a pro baseball player the same question, I'm pretty sure the common response is NOT: "because I heard there was a baseball player shortage".

[Goldy]

ready for my novel?

 

when i was a kid i was absolutely PETRIFIED of flying, especially in commercial planes. anything that flew just scared me. my parents made me see a shrink when i was 10 because i had broke down, freaked out, started crying and nearly had a heart attack on a short plane ride from vegas to cali. i used to have recurring plane crash nightmares 1-2 times a month, that would circulate in my mind all nite during sleep, over and over and over until morning.

 

as i got older i decided i needed to do something about facing my fears. i took a helicopter ride , and did my first tandem skydive. the helicopter was amazing, it didnt scare me, i was blown away and drawn by it. then i did my second tandem jump, then third, next thing i knew i got my skydiving license, and as scared as i was of planes (especially those little ones), i noticed i got slightly more relaxed each jump. when i had around 80 or 90 jumps, i realized, "holy sh*t", i looked at myself and realized i was sitting right next to the open door up to altitude with one of my legs sticking out, totally incognito, as mellow as a person could be, and at that moment i had conquered my fear of flying. not only that but i also realized that i had become absolutely amazed and interested in aviation, and started bugging my pilot buddies on rides up to altitude about how things worked and what did what.

 

finally at that point i started researching helicopter flight schools, and concluded that the only way it would happen was by joining the military. so here i am, 4 years later, trying to lay out the groundwork to get my rotary wing pilots license.........

 

Holy crap- Now thats a story!

[Azhigher]

Because I wanted to have a job I actually liked, and I didn't want to live in a cubicle.

 

Wanted to fly too, but thats just a coincidence.

[gary-mike]

Does the question even need to be asked?

 

For me, and most others(from what I have gathered)it is an addiction that must be fed. Maybe not the best financial decision, but neither is smoking crack yet there are plenty that choose to do that. Not anyone here I would hope!

 

I have been an aviation fanattic since I can remember. I have put on hold or let plenty dreams pass me by already. What kind of life is it to simply exsist, everyone must have dreams and pursue them.

 

I think most people thinking about spending around $80,000 for the training is going to put time into extensive research before jumping in. Either that or they have plenty of expendable $ and will be fine either way. I have done my research and realize the risks involved, and have a realistic expectation of what I am getting into and have back up plans. But trying and not getting too far is better than spending the rest of my life kicking myself for not trying. If nothing else I will be helping another CFI build them hrs and live his/her dream.

Edited January 22, 2011 by gary-mike

[Rogue]

Did my due diligence and lined up some job leads before I ever took my first lesson. I don't know how I was so lucky to have met the "right" people but I did.

 

Soooo.... not trying to beat you up but... it sounds like you didn't do your due diligence before making the plunge. I'm guessing you started a few years ago. I started on this journey in 2007. Its been a long journey with military duty getting in the way, however, even back in 2007 when people were getting right seat jobs with 350 hours and other crazy scenarios the majority of the advice I received was - "yes its possible but don't count on it, there is no pilot shortage and no mass exodus of Vietnam pilots." So the information was there.

 

I can understand why you are jaded but why give up? Its 2011 and I hope to finally finish up my commercial license this year (all cash no loans and military getting in the way really draws the process out) and the point is you already have made it farther then most. Maybe you should spend some time at the airport getting to know people instead of hanging out on the internet.

 

Long story short, what drew me in? I love it.

[Sarge]

After going through the whole process to fly fixed wing and spending 8000 hours flying for an airline, I discovered I am actually a helicopter junkie. Of course, the airline job is facilitating the rotor training, but it has never been about the cost (within reason, of course) so whatever it takes to make me happy in a career. Office cube? NO WAY!

[crashed_05]

Can't imagine doing anything else...that's why.

[Lindsey]

“If you are in trouble anywhere in the world, an airplane can fly over and drop flowers, but a helicopter can land and save your life.”

 

That's why. Oh, and because it's f*cking fun.

[r22butters]

Not to sound condescending but, I started because I wanted to be a pilot. Not because someone sold me on the idea. Yeah, sure, it was a ton of money, but I needed to do this. It wasn't a business decision, it was very personal...

 

I always wanted to be a pilot, too. The only reason I decided to try and make it a career, was because I thought there was a "need".

 

Spending 70K to try and enter an extremely overcrowded industry, where entry-level jobs are next to non-existent, just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

A college degree may be just as expensive, but at least, with that, you can look for jobs in other fields, (if your chosen doesn't work out). Flight training is useless in the outside world, so its like I'm back at square-one.

[uberchris]

i feel ya butters but having a college degree doesnt guarantee you a job either, there are plenty of higher educated people right now that are working at home depot.............

[Inferno]

Exactly, or going back in for grad studies to try and make themselves more marketable. And if you think flight trainings expensive, you should see what tuition at some of our more prestigious universities is....

i feel ya butters but having a college degree doesnt guarantee you a job either, there are plenty of higher educated people right now that are working at home depot.............

[ctimrun]

I always wanted to be a pilot, too. The only reason I decided to try and make it a career, was because I thought there was a "need".

 

Spending 70K to try and enter an extremely overcrowded industry, where entry-level jobs are next to non-existent, just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

A college degree may be just as expensive, but at least, with that, you can look for jobs in other fields, (if your chosen doesn't work out). Flight training is useless in the outside world, so its like I'm back at square-one.

 

 

I understand your frustration and appreciate your attempt to educate new comers, but I disagree with the above. If people are dumb enough to buy into a flight school's sales pitch of a "pilot shortage" or "vietnam guys all retiring" then shame on them. It is unfortunate that the minimums keep getting raised for an "entry level" pilot position, but if you don't meet the current minimums you can't expect to get in. Once you have the minimum you will get in. I realize the economy has made it tough to get the minimums, but if you want it bad enough and are flexible it will happen for you too.

 

My bachelor's degree cost more than $70K and I doubt it has done anything for me career wise. I am researching a masters degree to the tune of $20K and I doubt it will do anything for me either. College degrees are like high school diplomas were 20 years ago, the difference is my high school diploma didn't cost a dime.

 

I have many friends (not pilots) with very expensive (in excess of $100K in school loans) bachelors, masters, and even one law school graduate all who are making $10 - $15 hour in entry level jobs (starbucks, home depot, Disneyland) so they can relate, however they don't discourage others from pursuing an education and their dreams.

 

The way I see it r22butters is you are sitting in a really good spot, pretty much the same place I was in the mid/late 90's. If you keep plugging away at it, once things start to pick back up you will be sitting in a great spot.

 

Don't burn yourself and/or others out with negativity. Having a positive attitude will do wonders for your longevity in any career.

[SBuzzkill]

I love everything about flying. I could have become an engineer and been very happy in that job and probably bought my own aircraft and flown on my own terms. But that is not what I am meant to do. I am not particularly religious but based on the fact that I have wanted this since I could begin to create thoughts I believe I was made to do this. I lucked out with my job but I was willing to do whatever it took to become a pilot. Mind you I was going to take the long road and not go into tons of debt to do it.

[rollthbns]

I always wanted to be a pilot, too. The only reason I decided to try and make it a career, was because I thought there was a "need".

 

 

I would argue that there is a need. Companies hire people all the time. I personally have had two job offers in the last six months, and I am still somewhat of a newbie myself having started in 2007.

 

There are a lot of factors that come to bear on your getting hired or not. Some of it is luck, sure. But the majority of it is diligence, attitude, professionalism and desire. We only do what we truly believe in.

 

I am in no way suggesting you have a bad attitude, so don't take my comments wrong! I would however, challenge you to think really hard about how you are approaching the career. Maybe some small adjustments can get you over the edge?

 

In any case, good luck!

[r22butters]

I would argue that there is a need. Companies hire people all the time. I personally have had two job offers in the last six months, and I am still somewhat of a newbie myself having started in 2007...

In any case, good luck!

 

Is it safe to say that you have more than 1000hrs?

 

I see job ads every day, so I'm in no doubt that companies are hiring.

 

However, I was one of those newbies who was gullible/stupid enough to believe that BS about the "pilot shortage", so no one will ever be able to convince me that there is, or ever will be, a "need" for pilots!

 

There are enough of us unemployed "low-timers" to keep the industry supplied for at least the next 100 years. That is, if we can find a way to fatten our logbooks enough to get hired?

 

A college degree may not be worth what it used to be, but try getting a job without one.

[SBuzzkill]

Make yourself valuable to employers and there will always be a need for you.

[Lindsey]

A college degree may not be worth what it used to be, but try getting a job without one.

 

Try getting a job with one. ("Overqualified, sorry we need you to have 5+ years of actual experience in the field," etc etc.)

 

There is no perfect route that will work for each and every one of us. It's easy to say "go to college," "don't go to college," "train in Schweizers," "no, train in Robbies," but it's not always that simple. Do your research, be smart about your decisions, network your butt off, and have a great attitude.

 

I agree with R22butters' eyes-wide-open comment. Be hopeful but not naive, and be realistic but don't be an Eeyore.

[Shaun]

i feel ya butters but having a college degree doesnt guarantee you a job either, there are plenty of higher educated people right now that are working at home depot.............

 

Love it

 

http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/why-did-17-million-students-go-to-college/27634

 

"This is even true at the doctoral and professional level—there are 5,057 janitors in the U.S. with Ph.D.’s, other doctorates, or professional degrees."