Jump to content

Documented flight training


JCM5
 Share

Recommended Posts

Below is a link to my YouTube channel. I record all of my flights with my GoPro HD2 and use the videos to review and reflect on my flights when I'm home. At times if I am over focused while flying I might not fully absorb everything my instructor is telling me, so this is a great tool for me to go back and study up on what I did that day.

 

I fly two to four times a week and upload videos after each flight so if you're interested feel free to keep checking in. Nothing too exciting yet as I am only 7 hours in but I plan to document all of my flying from now until CFII. Always open to comments/criticisms/advice/questions etc.

 

Cheers,

JC

 

http://www.youtube.c...deo-mustangbase

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was reviewing the PP rotary PTS for quick stops, and couldn't find it. As I recall it's 40/40 to a 40 foot (OGE) stationary hover. But since I can't reference it, I'm uncertain. Also, on initial contact with Boeing tower, I would separate my transmission into 2 broadcasts, the first one being "Boeing tower helicopter 4084T with x-ray". Suggest that to your instructor, and see if he likes that. It works a lot better for me, and my students.

 

Great idea on recording your instruction for review, but, in the event something untoward should happen, it's evidence. It's also fodder for prospective employers, just like facebook. I also like how you ignore the camera. I have seen that even a little distraction regarding the camera by the PIC can easily be disastrous.

Edited by aeroscout
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here you go aeroscout.

 

40/40 is what I learned for demonstrating a quickstop. Nothing spelled out in the PTS though.

 

http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/media/FAA-S-8081-15a.pdf

A. TASK: RAPID DECELERATION

REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-21; POH/RFM.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to rapid deceleration.

2. Maintains RPM within normal limits.

3. Properly coordinates all controls throughout the execution of the

maneuver.

4. Maintains an altitude that will permit safe clearance between the

tail boom and the surface.

5. Decelerates and terminates in a stationary hover at the

recommended hovering altitude.

6. Maintains heading throughout the maneuver, ±10°.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't believe your instructor is ok with that. I would have refused personally, but then again, we do live in the age of reality television.

 

You should take the video and pitch it to a network. You might get your own show, and with the profit you could skip the whole instructing phase and buy your own :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your hovering looks very good for your 4th hour. Did your instructor explain to you the various pedal turns ? It seems to me all he said was a 90degree pedal turn in 5 seconds. Usually unless otherwise noted, pedal turns are made about the pilot seat, but can be made about any part of the helo, or extended longitudal axis. Making turns about varying points helps pedal turn coordination processing

 

Also, your instructor seems to be criticizing your pickups, did he explain the concept of "light on the skids" to you ?

Edited by aeroscout
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks....the hovering started to get easier by my third flight. Proper tail rotor control was obviously, and still is, the most difficult control input.

 

Also....please keep in mind that you are seeing trimmed down segments of one and a half hour long videos for each flight. My instructors are extremely thorough about everything you've mentioned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I was reviewing the PP rotary PTS for quick stops, and couldn't find it. As I recall it's 40/40 to a 40 foot (OGE) stationary hover. But since I can't reference it, I'm uncertain.

 

The PTS states to initialize the Quickstop at 40 knots and 40' AGL. You terminate at a hover at the "recommended hovering altitude," so about 3-5' AGL. Not a 40' OGE hover. See Tarantula's PTS reference above.

 

Also, on initial contact with Boeing tower, I would separate my transmission into 2 broadcasts, the first one being "Boeing tower helicopter 4084T with x-ray". Suggest that to your instructor, and see if he likes that. It works a lot better for me, and my students

 

Boeing Field is an extremely busy Class D airspace. Extremely busy. Maybe on a winter, MVFR day you might be able to break it into two radio calls, but most days, especially in the summer, you are lucky to be able to get one call in without waiting for several minutes. I'm not arguing with your suggestion, but it simply isn't very realistic at Boeing.

 

Your hovering looks very good for your 4th hour. Did your instructor explain to you the various pedal turns ? It seems to me all he said was a 90degree pedal turn in 5 seconds. Usually unless otherwise noted, pedal turns are made about the pilot seat, but can be made about any part of the helo, or extended longitudal axis. Making turns about varying points helps pedal turn coordination processing

 

Also, your instructor seems to be criticizing your pickups, did he explain the concept of "light on the skids" to you ?

 

Like what JCM5 said, realize that you are only seeing a short clip of a 1.3ish hour flight. Having flown with this instructor and every other one at Helicopters Northwest, I can assure you that all of the above mentioned points were covered. I know you aren't trying to make it seem like the instructor isn't competent, but it comes across that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't see much wrong with your pickups, but I wasn't there. In a case like that my technique would be to praise your pickups, or whatever I observed you doing well. I find that students make better progress with praise than criticism, all other things being equal. But if you are happy with your instructor, and admire his competence, you are in a better position to judge first hand. I just know no matter how good you are, there is almost always room for improvement. No offense intended.

 

As for the business of Boeing, I've never been there. But I have been to ATL and MIA, and DFW, and DCA, and IAD, LAX, ORD, and others many times. I have found that short first contacts are about all you can get in on busy frequencies. My shortest transmission on a very busy NY center freq was zero, after having been assigned to a new frequency, which I tuned with no delay, and immediately upon receiving the new frequency, was directed by NY center to switch to another NY center freq, with no shot at a readback as that controller followed my transmission with break... and was talking to a laundry list of other aircraft. I did not delay going to the new freq once I heard his break call. But, your experience may be much different than mine.

Edited by aeroscout
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think your comments were out of line. I've had instructors that neglect to mention various maneuvers simply because it doesn't come to their mind. Everyone has different teaching/learning methods. Personally I think his instructor is talking too much, but if he's fine with that as a student and picking up what his instructor is putting out it's not a problem.

 

His pickups are looking good and I think you are spot on with your light on the skids comment. I spent a lot of time wrestling with the whole "this helicopter lifts up a certain way so make your control inputs to counter it" thing. That's TMI. Just feel it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was reviewing the PP rotary PTS for quick stops, and couldn't find it. As I recall it's 40/40 to a 40 foot (OGE) stationary hover. But since I can't reference it, I'm uncertain. Also, on initial contact with Boeing tower, I would separate my transmission into 2 broadcasts, the first one being "Boeing tower helicopter 4084T with x-ray". Suggest that to your instructor, and see if he likes that. It works a lot better for me, and my students.

 

Great idea on recording your instruction for review, but, in the event something untoward should happen, it's evidence. It's also fodder for prospective employers, just like facebook. I also like how you ignore the camera. I have seen that even a little distraction regarding the camera by the PIC can easily be disastrous.

 

I would not terminate a Rapid Deceleration to a 40' OGE. It is not a quick stop. You are not coming to a complete stop until you are back down at a NORMAL hover height. 40/40 is a decent number to follow. As you flare and slow down, level and come down and forward. Terminate at aprox. 3 foot hover.

 

Terminating at a 40' OGE is right in the H/V curve when there is no reason to be there.

 

A lot of pilots don't understand that flying helicopter is all about managing risk. In the case of practicing Rapid Deceleration's, there is no need to expose yourself to and extended amount of time at a 40' hover. The risk of an engine failure is higher than the reward of terminating at a 40' hover.

 

Most towers like to hear everything in one call. Keep it short and sweet. Doing so keeps the amount of communication down.

Edited by JDHelicopterPilot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here you go aeroscout.

 

40/40 is what I learned for demonstrating a quickstop. Nothing spelled out in the PTS though.

 

http://www.faa.gov/t...-S-8081-15a.pdf

 

 

A. TASK: RAPID DECELERATION

REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-21; POH/RFM.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to rapid deceleration.

2. Maintains RPM within normal limits.

3. Properly coordinates all controls throughout the execution of the

maneuver.

4. Maintains an altitude that will permit safe clearance between the

tail boom and the surface.

5. Decelerates and terminates in a stationary hover at the

recommended hovering altitude.

6. Maintains heading throughout the maneuver, ±10°.

 

"Nothing spelled out in the PTS though."

 

Really; Don't forget the REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-21, What does it say?

 

TECHNIQUE

“During training always perform this maneuver into the wind. [Figure 10-3, position 1] After leveling off at an altitude between 25 and 40 feet, depending on the manufacturer’s recommendations, accelerate to the desired entry speed, which is approximately 45 knots for most training helicopters (position 2). The altitude you choose should be high enough to avoid danger to the tail rotor during the flare, but low enough to stay out of the crosshatched or shaded areas of the height/velocity diagram throughout the maneuver....During the recovery, increase collective pitch, as necessary, to stop the helicopter at normal hovering altitude,”

REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-21, Page 10-3

40kts/40' works into that ending at a normal hover hight.

Edited by iChris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote from JD

 

"Most towers like to hear everything in one call. Keep it short and sweet. Doing so keeps the amount of communication down".

 

Nearly all towers I talk to already know I will be attempting to contact them. When in a situation where a tower is not expecting your attempt to contact, and your first transmission is the book of mormon, they will invariably ask you to repeat. A complete waste of time, and unnecessary in my opinion. But as always, experience and your mileage may vary.

 

PS. iChris, I was also reviewing my PTS, thank you for your slant on the subject.

Edited by aeroscout
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A short time ago, I had a discussion with a prominent industry DPE who said the current student proficiency levels were at an all-time low. So much so, this DPE was considering getting out of the check-ride business because flight school owners were sending students to “newer” out-of-region DPE’s for check-rides just to avoid his “old” standard.

 

With that, check-rides are subjective. How a maneuver is performed is up for interpretation by the examiner setting in the seat next to the applicant. Different examiners will have different standards and CFI’s should know exactly what their examiners are expecting and teach it accordingly. Plus, instructors should understand, the PTS is based on a minimum standard.

 

Yes CFI’s should not only "know it" but IMO, go beyond it….

 

For example; while conducting stage checks and/or pre check-ride check-flights, during straight-n-level flight at altitude, I’d ask the student for a “quick stop”. Usually, IF the student performed the maneuver, upon termination, guess what….. Yep, they settled…… Why? Because, the only thing they understood was to descend after the deceleration. Rote learning from rote teaching. And, this was only IF the student actually understood what I was asking for as most had never done a QS/RD at altitude…..

 

Yes, avoid terminating in the HV curve by descending as required. However, students should understand, this is a control coordination maneuver for a rapid deceleration. Beyond the learning environment, this maneuver can terminate in any phase of flight (descending, hovering, climbing, backing, straight-n-level, turning or whatever is necessary….).

 

Back in the day, my lesson would include, “going from an accelerating attitude to a decelerating attitude without loss or gain of altitude with the termination to a level aircraft in a slow (walking pace) steep approach angle to the surface.” Common error beyond the obvious: sinking tail low to the surface and the 4th paragraph is one method of solving and/or correcting this error.

 

Instructors need to teach students to become safe proficient pilots, not just to mimic the tasks outlined in the PTS so they can pass the check-ride…..

Edited by Spike
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spike that sounds a lot like the "accel/decels" that us Army guys performed during IERW. Do they not teach these on the civilian side?

 

I’m not sure what the Army “accel/decel” is. However, if it’s simply accel to a decel back to an accel to a decel, so-on-and-so-forth, then no, it’s not a normally practiced maneuver on the civi side. At least it wasn’t when I was teaching…

 

Currently, our facility is situated on the airport where there is lots of ab-initio training going on right outside our hangar door. While I haven’t conducted intro training in years, from the QS’s I see being taught, the decel includes the descent. That is, most if not all, QS’s have the aircraft nose high while descending all the way down to the termination point at the surface. Plus, the 4 steps (accel, decel, level, descent) seems to blend together (if that makes any sense)…. More like an, accel to a bottomed collective, autorotative flare, and let her fall until you yanker all in at the bottom… Fugly….

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"With that, check-rides are subjective. How a maneuver is performed is up for interpretation by the examiner setting in the seat next to the applicant. Different examiners will have different standards and CFI’s should know exactly what their examiners are expecting and teach it accordingly. Plus, instructors should understand, the PTS is based on a minimum standard."

 

 

This gave me an incredible headache during my Commercial training (only it was CFIs, not examinars) My school believed it was a good idea to get different points of view on each maneuver, therefore in addition to my "regular" CFI, I also flew with five others upon occasion.

 

As a result I've done Quick-Stops to a hover, with an immediate descent, with a delayed descent, very quickly (getting the nose pretty high), and very slowly (barely moving the nose up at all). Ironically, none were "at altitude", those were saved until my rental checkout (with a different company.

 

Sure its great to do different things, but,..."how does the examinar want it?", was a common question I asked! This problem was even more prevelant on things like "max-takeoffs", "orbits", and of course "autos",...very frustrating!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sounds to me like some are teaching this maneuver as the last part of an autorotation, but with power on. Am I right in this observation ? It seems to me that a quickstop should have an element of level flight in it, neither gaining, nor losing altitude.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not sure what the Army “accel/decel” is. However, if it’s simply accel to a decel back to an accel to a decel, so-on-and-so-forth, then no, it’s not a normally practiced maneuver on the civi side. At least it wasn’t when I was teaching…

 

Currently, our facility is situated on the airport where there is lots of ab-initio training going on right outside our hangar door. While I haven’t conducted intro training in years, from the QS’s I see being taught, the decel includes the descent. That is, most if not all, QS’s have the aircraft nose high while descending all the way down to the termination point at the surface. Plus, the 4 steps (accel, decel, level, descent) seems to blend together (if that makes any sense)…. More like an, accel to a bottomed collective, autorotative flare, and let her fall until you yanker all in at the bottom… Fugly….

 

That's exactly it. Flying along at cruise you slow down to whatever speed, stabilize, then accelerate back to cruise without losing altitude. Then there's the terrain flight accel/decels which are done down near the ground, the focus being pivoting on the tail to keep from striking whatever you're flying above.

 

This whole quick stop descending thing sounds pretty dangerous to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I'm not following the discussion here very well. The quick stops I practice with my instructors are generally performed at 40kias/40agl. Altitude is maintained until we've bled off enough air speed at which point we enter a steep decent to a low hover without settling with power. Is there some criticism about those parameters?

 

No mention yet of quick stops during straight and level flight at +500agl. Spike, you mentioned "if" your students would perform the maneuver. Can you elaborate for me? At just 11 hours some stuff is still conceptually over my head.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...