Fuel Tester

[eagle5]

Like many of you, I'm sure, I have a scew driver on the end of my fuel tester.

 

Am I really supposed to just tighten a loose screw and then takeoff, or should I get a mechanic to possibly look at why the screw came loose in the first place?

[apiaguy]

many years ago...in order to preflight an aircraft, you may have needed to turn a screw or 1/4 turn fastener (camloc) in order to see anything... I think if you need a mechanics help in determining why a screw is loose...

[RagMan]

I think the purpose of that screw driver tip is to sump the fuel tanks, am I wrong? Yes, they very well could have implemented the screw tip also for securing access panels before flight (things like ground receptacle access doors). Some times, screws work themselves loose. Doesn't mean your aircraft is going to fall apart. Use common sense and good judgement. If you feel the need to ask your mechanic, do so. If it's just a random screw along the airframe, tighten it and move on. Screws work themselves loose sometimes. Typically its not a problem.

[Counterrotate]

Really Eagle5? Are you just trying to stir the pot here? They say there is no such thing as a dumb question, but sheesh. Tightening loose screws in panels is generally considered preventative maintenance and can be performed by the pilot. Take care of the little stuff yourself. If you see something that makes you uncomfortable, go tell a mechanic. But if you report a loose screw to the mech every time you find one, they are going to start avoiding you, as is everyone else, and maybe it's time to start thinking about a different career or hobby. Some things you shouldn't mess with, and you should know what those things are. Some things you should just fix yourself with a few turns of the ole screw stick and then get the hell on with it.

[Guest pokey]

nothing wrong with a 2nd opinion

[Guest pokey]

and then again,, there is nothing more dangerous than a "pilot with a wrench"

[Wally]

Having a fuel tester with a screw driver doesn't change what's legal and/or permitted. That's like asking if I had a scalpel, can I do heart surgery?

Do as you've been trained to do, having the tool doesn't imply competence.

[Counterrotate]

I hate this generation of pilots that whine about every loose panel screw. It's one of the things about aviation that really bugs me. I've seen pilots cancel the flight or demand a mechanic come out over the dumbest things and the mechs just roll their eyes. Some of these guys it's a habit. And sometimes it even seems as if they get something out of finding a fault (like it validates their pre-flight expertise). I'm not saying you should go wrench on the aircraft, but if you can change the oil (and you can, legally) hen you can also tighten a few loose screws (and you can, legally). Save a mech the headache and build your own confidence and ability a bit. Learn what you can and can't do yourself so you know what's legal and what's not. Empower yourself. Make yourself useful instead of a nuisance.

[eagle5]

I hate this generation of pilots that whine about every loose panel screw. It's one of the things about aviation that really bugs me. I've seen pilots cancel the flight or demand a mechanic come out over the dumbest things and the mechs just roll their eyes. Some of these guys it's a habit. And sometimes it even seems as if they get something out of finding a fault (like it validates their pre-flight expertise). I'm not saying you should go wrench on the aircraft, but if you can change the oil (and you can, legally) hen you can also tighten a few loose screws (and you can, legally). Save a mech the headache and build your own confidence and ability a bit. Learn what you can and can't do yourself so you know what's legal and what's not. Empower yourself. Make yourself useful instead of a nuisance.

 

Oh' please forgive me your highness!

 

I just thought that the mechanic may have a list of "if/then" scenarios that may include, "if this screw is loose, then I need to check that"? There may be an unseen crack which caused that particular screw to come loose,...I don't know, I'm not an A&P!

 

I hate people like you, who seem to have the need to insult someone for just asking a simple f*cking question!

 

I have never seen a loose screw on pre flight!

Edited January 16, 2013 by eagle5

[Hover225]

Better safe than sorry. If something is loose, what caused the fastener to loosen? Hidden problems may be the culprit.

[pilot#476398]

Well tightening an already loose screw isn't on the list of things you can do to a Robby, but then again neither is adding oil! So, if we're talking about an R22/R44 here, I'd say its not considered "preventative maintenance", but it doesn't seem to be regular maintenance either, so, like adding oil, you can do it.

 

Should you do it? Well I guess that depends on where it is? If its a valve cover screw, and you don't see any cracks, sure, go ahead, but if you're not sure, just call up the mechanic, or the chief pilot, and ask. What's the worst they can say?,..."just tighten it dumbass"!

[avbug]

Am I really supposed to just tighten a loose screw and then takeoff, or should I get a mechanic to possibly look at why the screw came loose in the first place?

 

Depends on the screw.

 

Is it a structural screw, and does it hold a particular importance? Don't say you'll ask the mechanic (you can...but you should know this information. It's critical to knowing your aircraft is it not?).

 

Most screws on your aircraft that secure panels and other items are not of themselves critical; if a fastener is critical, it will have means to prevent its rotation, or a anti-rotational nut such as a locknut or a castlated nut. Do you know how many threads must protrude from the nut to be considered airworthy? You should.

 

Screws are generally not torqued. That is, a specific torque value isn't usually applied to a screw. Screws come loose.

 

Whether you tweak the screw or not depends on where you're working and the circumstances. I used a fuel tester to pop several camlocks back into place on an aircraft in Iraq one night, and caught hell for it. Bear in mind that I'm a long time mechanic, former director of maintenance (twice), inspector, have worked in shops and repair stations since I was a teen...but god help the one who snapped that errant camlock back into place.

 

Screw drivers, even the chintzy ones on the end of the commercial fuel testers, are great for that. Camlocks are all over the aircraft. Sometimes removing a panel to have a better look or preflight something is appropriate, and that tester is really handy for that purpose.

 

If you're flying for a charter operation, then doing any form of maintenance can land you (and your employer) in hot water.

 

Some years ago I flew a King Air 200 doing ambulance work. One of the pilots fancied himself a mechanic (he was a mechanic in the army...a sure sign that he should be barred for life from contact with a wrench). He thought he'd borrow a couple of my tools one day...saw what he thought was a loose fastener on the left engine nacelle. While on the ground with the medical crew away picking up the patient, he decided some surgery was in order. A few tweaks, and he was ready when the crew returned with the patient. Shortly after takeoff, the upper half of the nacelle came loose and made it into the propeller. He couldn't seem to get it through his head that what looked like a "screw" to him was actually a fairly complex adjustable fastener that was functioning just fine...until he got hold of it. The flight landed safely, but he could just as easily have killed everyone.

 

On another occasion I caught him in the hangar jacking the airplane, preparing to change a tire. Simple process, he thought, except that he forgot the packing o-ring that went between the wheel halves, and the requirement to do a dye penetrant check on the wheel halves before reassembly. There was a reason I'd delayed replacing the tire: I was waiting for parts. He took it upon himself to have at it, and screwed it up. Another time I found metal shavings, and found he'd drilled through the pressure bulkhead with my tools (my liability) in an effort to secure a loose piece of cosmetic trim. There's a reason that manufacturers dumb down everything for pilots.

 

You're probably not going to do a lot of damage with your fuel tester. It's okay to ask...but bear in mind that if you're ignorant of the function of what you can see on the aircraft as you walk around it, and what lies beneath, then you lack the basic training and capability of performing a reasonable preflight, let alone should you be actually flying that aircraft. Take the time to get to know the aircraft much, much better than you do now.

 

Take the time to purchase AC 43.13 while you're at it, and get to know it well. It may save your life.

 

If its a valve cover screw, and you don't see any cracks, sure, go ahead, but if you're not sure, just call up the mechanic, or the chief pilot, and ask.

 

Actually, if it's a valve cover screw, simply tightening it isn't the proper act. That cylinder is a high-stress part, subject to considerable thermal expansion and stress. Torquing a screw or bolt is the same as loading a spring: that's what the bolt or screw is, when tightened. When you load that screw or bolt by tightening it, you're putting spring tension on the screw, and creating stress in the surrounding part, as well as unevenly compressing the metal and overlying parts (valve cover, for example). If the torque or tightness of that screw doesn't match the others, and if it hasn't been done in the proper order or pattern, you can warp the parts or cause cracks.

Edited January 17, 2013 by avbug

[Counterrotate]

Oh' please forgive me your highness!

 

I just thought that the mechanic may have a list of "if/then" scenarios that may include, "if this screw is loose, then I need to check that"? There may be an unseen crack which caused that particular screw to come loose,...I don't know, I'm not an A&P!

 

I hate people like you, who seem to have the need to insult someone for just asking a simple f*cking question!

 

I have never seen a loose screw on pre flight!

 

So, you WERE just stirring the pot then. Relax. I was just stirring it too.

 

Edit: My real point was closer to what avbug said: Learn about the aircraft, and get comfortable with the level of maintenance that pilots can (and will often be expected) to do. If you are a student, this question would have better been addressed to your instructor. If you are private pilot or higher, you should probably already know the answer to this for your particular aircraft, school, renter or whatever. If they don't want you touching anything, DON'T. If it's your helicopter, or you are a CFI, you will likely be expected to do some minor wrench turning. They taught us how to change the oil in the R22/R44 at the factory safety course. Do they not still do that? That's pilot level maintenance and I had to change the oil all the time at the end of the day when I was working at a flight school, and I also tightened a fair amount of "loose screws". The mechs actually appreciated that. ALOT. They were busy enough and didn't want to be bothered with piddly stuff that pilots were capable of doing themselves. There IS a line in the sand that needs to be drawn though, and that is where I suggest you become familiar with the POH and any other references on what you can and cannot do as a pilot. I certainly wouldn't touch anything attached to the engine, clutch, or any of the moving parts. Cowling screws? Check. Cotter pins on the doors? Check. Stuff like that is well within your legal ability to do yourself, unless you feel you are not competent in it, in which case, you should heed my earlier advice (start thinking about a different career or hobby).

 

Avbug's post also highlights what you, as a pilot, should NOT do. I would never mess with a split rim tire. I've heard those things can take your head off. I also would never mess with anything unless I KNEW WHAT IT WAS AND EXACTLY WHAT IT DOES.

[CharyouTree]

Coming from the H-60 side, we have ...spring fasteners? (Don't know a better term. The dzus fastener is on the end of a tensioned arm) holding the intermediate and tail rotor gearbox covers on. If I got a crew chief to put those back in because I didn't know why (honestly, they just pop in flight sometimes. Helicopters vibrate!), I would be beaten, and my SP might be concerned about my judgement. If I got one to put it in because I was unable, that's a different story. (They're finicky, and it's happened...I'll admit it.)

 

At the same time, If I found broken safeties and a loose nut, I'm not going to grab my gerber, tighten it up, and go fly.

 

Anyone can fly. (Especially if there're enough systems to help). We get paid to think. Use your knowledge of the aircraft you fly to make good decisions on what is acceptable in cases like this.

Edited January 17, 2013 by CharyouTree

[eagle5]

Actually, if it's a valve cover screw, simply tightening it isn't the proper act. That cylinder is a high-stress part, subject to considerable thermal expansion and stress. Torquing a screw or bolt is the same as loading a spring: that's what the bolt or screw is, when tightened. When you load that screw or bolt by tightening it, you're putting spring tension on the screw, and creating stress in the surrounding part, as well as unevenly compressing the metal and overlying parts (valve cover, for example). If the torque or tightness of that screw doesn't match the others, and if it hasn't been done in the proper order or pattern, you can warp the parts or cause cracks.

 

This is why I asked,...only a mechanic would know this!

[ridethisbike]

Avbug's post also highlights what you, as a pilot, should NOT do. I would never mess with a split rim tire. I've heard those things can take your head off. I also would never mess with anything unless I KNEW WHAT IT WAS AND EXACTLY WHAT IT DOES.

 

I don't think avbug was referring to a split ring wheel. I think he was referring to two wheels that are pushed together... think "dually" wheels on a truck.

 

I could be wrong though, I can see his description going both ways.

 

Maintenance at my flight school doesn't get stressed enough when taught to the students. There is a preventative maintenance class that our mechanics teach (I think), but that isn't until we are in the final semester of the program. Common sense always prevails, but we aren't allowed to do anything EXCEPT add oil. Loose or missing screw? Tell CFI, CFI gets mechanic. It's quite frustrating...

[avbug]

Coming from the H-60 side, we have ...spring fasteners? (Don't know a better term. The dzus fastener is on the end of a tensioned arm) holding the intermediate and tail rotor gearbox covers on.

 

Camlocks.

 

I don't think avbug was referring to a split ring wheel. I think he was referring to two wheels that are pushed together... think "dually" wheels on a truck.

 

I was referring to a standard aircraft wheel assembly, which is split in two pieces. The pieces are bolted together; most aircraft, other than very small ones, utilize o-rings between the two halves (for tubeless installations) and also require dye penetrant and other forms of inspections at each tire change, or each time the wheel is split. Torque is critical on those tires, as is the manner in which its applied.

 

This is why I asked,...only a mechanic would know this!

 

Pilots should know this, too. It's critical information, and you may be confronted with needing to know this at some point. If your'e going to instruct, you should know this. Most who become CFIs are content to learn and pass along the minimum knowledge, and that's just not good enough. How do you know when preflighting, for example, whether what you're seeing is airworthy? Is the safety wire oriented correctly, in the right direction? How many twists are required and how should it be finished? A turnbuckle safetied? Do you know whether what you're seeing on the preflight or postflight inspection is airworthy? It's up to a mechanic to do it properly, and the owner/operator is legally responsible to see that it gets done, but you buy the whole package every time you take that aircraft as pilot in command. You need to know those things.

 

Maintenance at my flight school doesn't get stressed enough when taught to the students. There is a preventative maintenance class that our mechanics teach (I think), but that isn't until we are in the final semester of the program. Common sense always prevails, but we aren't allowed to do anything EXCEPT add oil. Loose or missing screw? Tell CFI, CFI gets mechanic. It's quite frustrating...

 

I always strongly encourage students to own not only the pilot operating handbook, but also the maintenance manual for their aircraft, and to study both. Systems information in pilot handbooks is deeply dumbed down. You'll find much better information in your maintenance publications.

 

Adding oil isn't as simple as it sounds, either. In a turbine engine, it should be accompanied by a logbook entry, though seldom is, and in the case of both piston and turbine engines, there are ways to go about it, and not go about it. Mixing brands in turbine engines can be a critical mistake, let alone types of oil...but many pilots flying piston equipment have no understanding of the oil in their engine...even though it's the lifeblood of the engine. Weight? Type? What happens if there's too much? Mineral? Synthetic? What's AD oil? When should the oil be checked, and why? Most CFIs teach nothing more than checking the dipstick and adding a quart, and that's a real disservice to the student.

[Wally]

Being the best and safest pilot is about using your head. All the tools you use are about doing that better, from pencil and paper to multi-engine known icing approved IFR xray vision wonder copter.

 

Asking isn't a problem. If you're reasonably intelligent, you try to acquire and apply knowledge constantly and forever doing this, because when you stop doing so forever can be suddenly now. If you don't do it, see it, read about it, or ask about it- you won't learn it.

How did you learn to sample fuel? Keep doing it that way, whether or not you have a fuel sampler with a screwdriver or a $20,000 porfessional toolset.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Wally

[pilot#476398]

Adding oil isn't as simple as it sounds, either. In a turbine engine, it should be accompanied by a logbook entry, though seldom is, and in the case of both piston and turbine engines, there are ways to go about it, and not go about it. Mixing brands in turbine engines can be a critical mistake, let alone types of oil...but many pilots flying piston equipment have no understanding of the oil in their engine...even though it's the lifeblood of the engine. Weight? Type? What happens if there's too much? Mineral? Synthetic? What's AD oil? When should the oil be checked, and why? Most CFIs teach nothing more than checking the dipstick and adding a quart, and that's a real disservice to the student.

 

 

For the Robbies we use 100+ aviation oil. I don't know what the weight is, but there is a list of acceptable weights in the POH. If its a new helicopter, or new cylinders, we've used 20/50 mineral oil first.

 

We check the oil before each flight, but if you've been to the Robby course they give you a pre flight checklist that does mention how often you should have to add it. If you add when it needs less that 1 quart it usually seems to blow the rest out, making a nice mess!

 

We don't mix oil brands, or weights, although I don't know what would happen if we did? I was told once that if you use an oil that's too thick it can blow the seals out, but that was when I asked about putting 20/50 in my Ford Thunderbird!

 

That's all I know about oil.

[ridethisbike]

We don't mix oil brands, or weights, although I don't know what would happen if we did? I was told once that if you use an oil that's too thick it can blow the seals out, but that was when I asked about putting 20/50 in my Ford Thunderbird!

 

Adding oil that is too thick can cause a whole host of problems. Thicker oil usually equates to higher oil pressures which can lead to not only blown seals, but extra stress on things like the oil pump, especially when that oil is cold. Too thin, heat transfer and a loss of lubrication capabilities. I'm sure there are other things, but those are the ones that stick out in my head right now.

 

Not all oils are created equally

[avbug]

Not all oils are created equally

 

Equally, to an extent (implies quality), but chemically. Oils are specifically engineered regarding shear properties (slipperiness, mechanical stability, resistance to breakdown, cushioning effect and lubricity, etc), thermal characteristics (changes in viscosity with heat, resistance to change with heat, stability, variable viscosity), and so forth.

 

With piston oils, one should be able to mix brands, and one can mix straight weights and multi weights. In most cases, one should be able to mix synthetic and non-synthetic without any adverse effects...but you should not. Some concern exists by some people and groups regarding issues when changing from ashless dispersant (mineral) to synthetic and back, but some of those concerns are unfounded.

 

Oil additives can be very dangerous, particularly non-approved additives (Slick 50...I've seen it put in aircraft engines...and I've seen it destroy engines).

 

Turbine oils should never be mixed.

 

Putting in the wrong viscosity oil (wrong weight) can be very detrimental. It can prevent the proper flow and servicing of bearings, lubrication of cams, and so forth, as well as impede flow. The wrong viscosity, especially failure to use a multi-grade oil that changes viscosity with temperature, can lead to excessive wear during start-up, as well as delayed lubrication and cooling to critical internal engine areas. Excess oil pressure caused by oil that's too"thick" can lead to failure of the crankshaft seal.

 

Lots of myths abound regarding engine oils, particularly aviation engine oils. Think of engine oil as the lifeblood of the engine. Get to know it very well, because your safety depends upon its proper function, and your proper use of oil.