Cherry Drying in Columbia River Gorge

[rubidug]

Why does the UAA not trust otters? Damn, now this thread is going to be about animals skins....

[JCM5]

On third thought....I will still stay out of it.

[helistar]

WOW... Really...

Let me ask this... Why does it seem everytime a woman becomes successful some guy comes along starts garbage like this? I'll tell you why, the people/pilots engaged in this trash talking are simply intimidated by a strong woman... I can't tell you the number of times I've been verbally attacked by idiots yelling slut/whore/bitch across the ramp or hanger simply because I put in the hard work required to become proficient enough to excel in this career field...

 

I'm not friends with Maria, but I've met her and know enough about her to know she's established herself as a true professional business woman that has achieved repeated success in a two different career fields... That in and of itself requires a level a level of dedication and professionalism few are willing or prepared to commit too... Plus she has over 2800 hours in helicopters... So Maria has paid her dues and deserves the same respect as any other professional pilot...

 

Maria has posted on her website "not hiring pilots" which is the exact same wording as "not hiring pilots" JT has posted on their website... But for whatever reason when the "Good Old Boys" post those three words it has a completely different meaning than if a woman posted it...

 

To start this kind of trash talking and refer to "good moral character" in the name of christ, seems like an oxymoron... So just maybe you can find the time to enlighten me with a reference pointing to where christ was involved in trash talking about women or if that's asking to much any christain reference where it's ok to belittle another person in the name of faith... Fact is I don't think it exist, but then again I'm not the moral police...

 

Be my guest and flame away, because the days of women being stuck at home barefoot and pregnant, without the ability to chase their dreams have long been over... So like it or not, women are here to stay and will continue to succeed through hard work and dedication...

[pilot#476398]

I like a strong, independant women,...as long as she's not taller than me! Happy Valentines Day!

[DS_HMMR]

women and drying cherries.

 

The Irony is AWESOME

[JCM5]

[Nearly Retired]

Wow, Helistar...settle down, dude! Nobody is denigrating anyone because of their gender. In fact, any mention of gender as an issue has been specifically absent from this thread. Or...do you think I'm picking on this person because of her gender? Think again. I'm picking on her because of her poor attitude toward helping other helicopter pilots and her self-professed atheism, which I suspect go hand in hand. It's a bitch when people use your own words against you, ain't it?

 

Like I said, those of us who self-describe as "Christians" can only emulate Christ, not use the Old or New Testament as a detailed instruction manual on what's permissable and what's not. In general, I try to lead a Christian life as best I can. If I don't live up to your expectations, well...I don't really know what to say.

 

But thank you for your input and your defense of this person, however subjective it might be due to your understandably being hypersensitive to the issue of discrimination against women in aviation. I don't dispute what you say. The person who is the subject of this discussion may indeed warrant your respect solely on the basis of her accomplishments. She does not warrant mine because there's more to it than simple accomplishments. And listen...it would be EXACTLY the same thing if she were a guy. So stop with the, "men are afraid of strong women" crap. No we're not. That's lame.

[DS_HMMR]

Its always particularly entertaining to watch conversations decay to arguments.

You can pretty much draw a line in the sand ANYwhere, and somebody will tell you its already too far.

 

Nowadays its more of a litmus test of someones depth of intelligence, once that can be gauged with stopwatch, as to how soon they'll play their "card". Be it a "race, gender, religion, or sexual preference" CARD.

 

Never in my life "or your's" have you seen a truly intelligent person need to resort to play a card, to effectively get their message across.

 

IMHO.

[JCM5]

I'm picking on her because of her poor attitude toward helping other helicopter pilots and her self-professed atheism, which I suspect go hand in hand.

 

Offensive, narrow-mined, hypocritical, and condescending.

 

You certainly live up to what you preach sir.

[helistar]

Like I said, those of us who self-describe as "Christians" can only emulate Christ, not use the Old or New Testament as a detailed instruction manual on what's permissable and what's not. In general, I try to lead a Christian life as best I can.

"those of us who self-describe as "Christians" can only emulate Christ"

Please enlighten me as to when Christ spread rumors, verbally attacked or belittled anyone male or female?

 

It's not the fact your attempting to belittle a womans reputation... It's the fact your doing so in the name of Christ and your Christain Values... I'm really surprised you claim such a great belief in Christain values, yet fail to see what's wrong with your arguement and it's serious lack of substance to substantiate such an outrageous claim targeting a successful pilot who just happens to be a woman...

 

The failure on your part to provided anything of substance to support your claims, other than a link to a competing male pilots website that is pretty much a duplicate of the female pilots website, leaves the door open for one to assume you do not have any factual information to contribute to this thread other than a failed attempt to degrade a successful female pilots reputation...

 

Since reactions to your post can only be based on the information you've provided and given the fact you've failed to substantiate any of your statements, myself and others are left with no other option but to conclude you either hate the fact your ag-services are competing with and losing market share to a female owned business, or you simply hate female pilots... Neither is an excuse for your attack on her reputation...

 

However if you'd like to take the time to substantiate your claims and prove me wrong, I'm listening...

[Nearly Retired]

JCM5:

Offensive, narrow-mined, hypocritical, and condescending.

 

You certainly live up to what you preach sir.

 

Offensive? Grow thicker skin, son. Life ain't all peaches and cream and not everyone is gonna agree with your opinions or mine. Grow up.

 

Narrow-minded? Hardly. It is the atheist who is narrow-minded. I keep my mind open for ALL possibilities and reject none. Could there be *no* God? Perhaps, although I believe otherwise, and I suppose that one day I'll find out. The atheist does not even entertain the possibility. Now which one of us is narrow-minded again?

 

Hypocritical? Says you. Do you even know the meaning of that word as you're applying it here?

 

Condescending? What...because I feel that someone who rejects the mere possibility that a Creator might exist lacks intelligence? What would YOU call it?

 

And just stop being so high-and-mighty with the judgments and finger pointing.

 

It's funny. Whenever I engage an atheist in a discussion of our beliefs, I usually ask what the basis is for theirs? Invariably they give me back the old, "Science trumps faith every time" crap. And oh yes, it is crap. No, I cannot prove that a Creator does exist, I admit that. But I have faith that one does. Now let's turn it around. Since one cannot prove that a Creator does *not* exist, then you must at least allow for the possibility that one does. It is not logical to summarily dismiss the possibility. And remember, it's called the Theory of Evolution, not the Fact of Evolution or even the Facts of Life (which was a horrible sitcom in the 1980's).

 

Having faith hurts no one - doesn't hurt me and my faith does not harm you (in fact, I would do anything in my power to help you if I could - people who know me will confirm this). Faith doesn't make you a hallucinating lunatic. I know that people of faith are often ridiculed and demeaned as being sheep who lack the ability to think critically and reason. Just the opposite is true, actually. And I kind of like having a spiritual center that I can tap into. I feel badly for those who do not.

 

Meanwhile, the atheist pilot we keep referring to shows herself in her blogposts to be one of the most disagreeable, unpleasant people you'd ever not want to know. (And if you haven't read her blog, you should - it's a trip!) She is constantly at odds with other people. The level of conflict in her life is quite surprising (well...not really...not to me). She always seems pissed off about something...one emotional crisis after another. Although I've never met her in person, I know people who have (it's a tiny industry after all) and they confirm the impression she conveys in her blog. Which is why I suggest that young pilots do not look to her for help: They won't get it (according to her).

 

I don't claim to be perfect. But I'm damn glad I'm not an atheist!

[Azhigher]

Offensive? Grow thicker skin, son.

 

You do realize Helistar is a female, right? Because it doesn't seem that you caught that.

 

So there ya go. My good deed of the day.

[Nearly Retired]

Helistar:

Since reactions to your post can only be based on the information you've provided and given the fact you've failed to substantiate any of your statements, myself and others are left with no other option but to conclude you either hate the fact your ag-services are competing with and losing market share to a female owned business, or you simply hate female pilots... Neither is an excuse for your attack on her reputation...

 

Oh dear. Um...Earth to Helistar, I don't have an ag-services business and I'm not "losing market share" to anyone, male or female. You're really kind of "out there," aren't you? Defensive much?

 

Look sweetie, I suspect that you probably mean well in taking up for another female pilot whom you feel is being unjustly and viciously "attacked." But here's the deal. My criticisms of this person-whose-name-we-will-not-mention are based ON HER OWN WORDS as written in her blog. Not on her website. Have you read her blog? If not, I suggest you do so. Pay particular attention to the post where she describes what happens when pilots call her on the phone asking for advice.

 

After you do that, then you can come back here and apologize to me. I'll be waiting (but I won't be holding my breath).

[JCM5]

.

[helistar]

Nearly Retired

 

You've failed to answer two specific and important questions in my post regarding your credibility...

1. Provide an example of Christ or any christain faith belittling anyone for any reason since your arguement is based on YOUR belief in the christian faith... You do understand locating this very important information will provide the very substance required to substantiate your attack on this pilots reputation... However failure to locate supporting information means you've violated the religious beliefs your arguements based on.
   
2. Do you know anyone flying/working at JT's... Since you do fly out of Brewster I can safely assume you do and that was the reason for your attack...
   

I'm always willing to listen, but only if your willing to answer these simple questions...

You've attacked a pilots reputation and using your christain faith as the reason... So just like I did when everyone was attacking DS_HMMR's reputation I'm requesting you clear up a few things, but up until now you've pretty much refused to substantiate your attack...

 

You claim to be a christian and emulate Christ, and then attack a persons professional reputation based on that faith... I just don't get it, so prove to me this type of religious belief is acceptable...

[MLH]

Nice thing about atheists is that until they take their last breath, they are redeemable!

 

Be nice to everyone, you never know the seating assignment when it's all over. There once was a man named Saul...

 

Mike

[Nearly Retired]

Man, I had a longwinded, boring response all typed up for Helistar, complete with snarky, condescending references and a good solid LOL in every paragraph. But you know what? When I start boring myself with my writing I know it's time to call it off. I must be getting old.

 

Look, Helistar, put it this way: I don't answer to you. I don't have to provide chapter and verse about what Christ thinks about this or that. Hell, I don't know. I have no idea whether He'd approve of my posts in this thread or not. I approve of them, that's all I know. To judge a person's Christianity, one must consider the person's entire life, not just a few silly internet posts on a silly discussion forum. The woman blogger in question? We cannot even address her level of Christianity because she denies it from the get-go!

 

And another thing: I never "attacked" the female cherry-drying pilot blogger. But I knew you'd take it that way. I merely repeated things she wrote in her blog. And see that's the thing about public blogs: It's like going into the town square and getting up on a soapbox (I guess a more modern analogy would be getting on the p.a. at your local Walmart). And you cannot be insulted or angry when you get feedback - you set yourself up for it! For the record, I've never "attacked" that blogger's professionalism or reputation. I have no idea what level of service she provides to her customers. I merely wrote about her in a personal way...and personally I find her unpleasant and disagreeable, with a demonstrable lack of intelligence, logic and ability to reason (disturbing qualities for a pilot). But hey- people may read *my* blog and go, "Man, I sure wouldn't want to be friends with *that* a-hole!" That's the chance you take when you blog.

 

Aaaaaaaanyways, I've had my say.

[ridethisbike]

I like how the argument went from "You don't have to be Christian to be a good person" to where it is now.

 

And for the record, you DON'T have to be a Christian to be a good person and have good morals. To think you do would be extremely narrow minded...

[helistar]

'Nearly Retired'

I'm not going to belabor the original point, but instead use your own words to show how your own words can be compared to those of a faith based religion gone awry... First I need to clear up something you stated in your last post...

 

Your now claiming to never have attacked Maria's reputation or professionalism... However in one of your very first post you stated "she appears to be one of the most selfish, angry, bitter, unChristianlike (she's an avowed atheist for crying out loud), ungenerous, unhelpful people in the industry."

 

You then proceed for several post to imply your emulating christ in condeming a professional pilot for lacking in moral character, because they just might be an atheist... Plus lets not forget the fact you already stated "she appears to be one of the most selfish, angry, bitter, unChristianlike (she's an avowed atheist for crying out loud), ungenerous, unhelpful people in the industry."

 

Now in your latest post you state "I never "attacked" the female cherry-drying pilot blogger. But I knew you'd take it that way."

 

Then several lines later what do you post yet again, yet another personal attack on her reputation and professionalism that states "I find her unpleasant and disagreeable, with a demonstrable lack of intelligence, logic and ability to reason (disturbing qualities for a pilot)."

 

I'm smart enough to know debates about religion and politics can easily get out of hand and in most cases no one ever wins the debate, because both side will always have to agree to disagree...

 

However when one starts using their own religion as a basis to condemn another person for no apparent reason other than a persons personal beliefs while knowing that persons beliefs in no way affects or interferes with your own way of life is cause for great concern... We live in the United States of America where freedom of religion isn't governed or controlled by the masses or our leaders in Washington, individuals have an irrevocable right to choose whether or not to partake in the practice of religion...

 

Now here's the scary part of your argument and it just so happens to be why I choose to debate you on this subject... For whatever reason you have choosen to repeatedly belittle this womans reputation and professionalism based on your perceived understanding of christ and your sincere desire to emulate him...

 

Now lets expand on this flawed logic... You've personally attacked this person based on your religious belief that atheist are un-christain like people lacking in acceptable moral character and as such god has now given you the right to attack that person in an effort to advance your religious agenda... Sound familar, it should because this is the exact same logic muslim extremist use to attack americans... You failed to respond to my request to substantiate your attack based on your christain faith because it doesn't exist and never will... For you to concoct an excuse for a personal attack on another pilots reputation based on religion was ill-conceived and shows a lack of good moral character on your part...

 

she appears to be one of the most selfish, angry, bitter, unChristianlike (she's an avowed atheist for crying out loud), ungenerous, unhelpful people in the industry. She won't even give you the time of day. It is sad.

 

I would look somewhere else for help.

And another thing: I never "attacked" the female cherry-drying pilot blogger. But I knew you'd take it that way.

 

For the record, I've never "attacked" that blogger's professionalism or reputation.

 

I find her unpleasant and disagreeable, with a demonstrable lack of intelligence, logic and ability to reason (disturbing qualities for a pilot).

[JCM5]

This ugly and irrational thread needs some perspective and beauty.

 

[avbug]

To judge a person's Christianity, one must consider the person's entire life, not just a few silly internet posts on a silly discussion forum.

 

You're doubtless familiar with the counsel "judge not" aren't you? Of course you are. You're a Christian. You're a Christian who judges. What happened to love all men, and good to them that despitefully use you?

 

I'm reminded of a missionary pilot I once met in a distant jungle country. I didn't tell him my background or religion, but approached him to ask him about his operation. He immediately said "we don't hire people of your theological affiliation."

 

I asked him if he wasn't supposed to love all mankind, as a Christian, to which he replied "we hate Catholics, too, but we'll fly them if they pay us enough."

 

I thought that summed up the blindsided two-faced image of popular Christianity. You might consider getting off your high horse. Christ ate with the sinners and the publicans. He spent time among even the least respected and distrusted, and invited them to come to him. You claim to be a follower, but display a most unchristian attitude. Your posts come across as bitter, and with respect to Christianity, uninformed. You claim pride, but don't remember your proverbs, that pride goes before the fall. You've clearly stated and reiterated that you feel your brand of belief makes you better than others, and you've belittled others for their belief (or lack thereof).

 

Christ said that there are many who, with their lips, draw near to him, but whose hearts are far from him. Truly you seem to fit that category. You pick and choose your scripture much like the old Baptist preacher did, with whom I'd occasionally sit and talk so many years ago. Late one afternoon, over a lemonade on his porch, we talked about his life long passion, his scriptures. I asked him about baptism for the dead, as referenced by Paul. He affirmed that there is no such reference in the bible. When I showed him the reference, he tore the page from his bible, crumpled it up, and threw it over the rail. "It's not in my bible," he said.

 

This is a thread about drying cherries. I don't know the woman in question. I don't care to. I have no reason to. I visited her web site. She flies a helicopter. She hasn't been flying very long, and isn't overly experienced, but she's making her way, and that's good enough. I thought some of her comments on her website were a little immature --"Our pilot remains in the area for the duration of the contract. (Other pilots think it's okay to return to Seattle if rain is unlikely; we don't.)-- to say noting of not very professional...but it's nothing compared to the scathing vitriol you've unleashed over irrelevant talking points regarding her personal beliefs or convictions.

 

She runs a damn helicopter operation, for crying out loud. She's not a pastor or evangelist.

 

That you think mankind cannot have ethics without God is a sad indictment on your own level of misunderstanding. Not very enlightened. I'll tell you this, without any reference to my own qualification: if you need to rely on your own interpretation of God or Yaweh or the Creator or even the big Cajun in the Sky in order to strike your moral compass and see yourself as right with the world, then good for you...but keep it to yourself. There's nothing wrong with aligning one's morality with Christianity, though few Christians can agree on what that means or with each other. To suggest that mankind has no moral compass save through Christ is idiotic, small minded, and pathetically arrogant. More to the point, is is unChristian, and no compliment of any kind to the faith to which you profess to believe. With your lips you draw near...but your own pride and arrogance reveals you.

 

Remember your thread about knowing when it's time to throw in the towel? This would be a good time. Let it go.

Edited February 16, 2013 by avbug

[280fxColorado]

"Why do you look at the speck of dust in another's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"

Matthew 7:3

Edited February 16, 2013 by 280fxColorado

[adam32]

WWJD?

[C of G]

WWJD?

 

Who Wants a Jelly Donut?

 

I do!!!!!

[Spike]

I have a faith. But what that faith is, is no one’s business. Nor would I ever profess supreme knowledge of that faith. That would be ignorant…..

 

With that, I believe what I want to believe. It’s a free country. Try to force your belief on me and we’ll have a problem...

 

Personally, I try not to judge. However, with the proliferation of the idiotic, it’s increasingly hard not too……..

Edited February 16, 2013 by Spike