Thinking of Quitting

[Barker]

Hello everyone,

 

I just wanted to post on here and get everyone's input and opinion about their experiences and dealings with pursuing helicopter flying as a career, especially their initial training.

 

I just started a program that takes students from 0 to CFII in 5 to 6 months. I've lurked on here for a few months and made sure I saved the money and sought out a school that would give me the best opportunities moving forward. I took an hour long discovery flight, and while not completely new to aviation, I thought it was great and and an excellent challenge that would provide a rewarding career. The school I'm flying at it is located on the West coast (staying with my cousin, semi local to the airport), with my immediate family located on the East coast.

 

I've amassed a stressful 16 hours so far in the span of about a week, and honestly feel drained and to the point of dreading going to fly the next day. I've always loved aviation, and flew fixed wing when I was younger until I got sidetracked with finding a "real job". I worked in the healthcare/IT industry, but was depressed in a way with the monotony and lack of excitement with everyday life and decided to pursue what I always dreamed of as a kid.

 

I investigated the potential jobs/pay/schedule of the aviation industry in general (airlines included) and came to find helicopters seemed to offer the edge in terms of a career that could still hold a descent family/social life. Family is by far the most important thing in my life, with flying being a not so distant second.

 

The 7x7 schedules a lot of operators run on, particularly EMS seems like a fantastic way to be able to visit distant family and be with my retiring parents, all with combining my love for flying. At this point though I feel somewhat selfish and guilty in a way, that I've chosen a school so far away, and spending the excessive amount of money on something so obscure. I know its putting everyone in my family under a lot of stress and worry, with helicopters being viewed as potential death traps. They are all supportive and encouraging, but I can hear the tension in their voices when I explain how my training is going.

 

I feel as though I am a relatively hard worker, so these thoughts of quitting/giving up are somewhat worrisome. As said above, and I'm sure many of you feel, flying is supposed to be fun and fulfilling a dream.

 

I feel both physically and mentally (especially) exhausted at the end of the day, and somewhat day dream how much more fun flying a 70s Cessna with family and friends for 100 hamburgers would be. As mentioned before though, I've walked away from the corporate life because I thought I knew this is what I wanted to be in life, but am starting to second guess myself.

 

So with this in mind, are these feelings natural? Am I pursuing flying for the wrong reasons? Everyone knows me as John the aviation nut, so this current situation is somewhat humiliating.

 

I'd like to hear your stories, and your recommendations. If you feel I'm not cut out for it, I am open to that as well.

[ridethisbike]

SLOW DOWN! 16 hours in a week for a new student is a lot. Fixed wing time? Sure, but flying helicopters is completely different. Anyone who has ridden a dirt bike and a street bike knows what I'm talking about. Sure, it's still a motorcycle, but very few of the skills transfer from one platform to the other. If you ride a dirt bike the way you ride a street bike, you're going to be in trouble. So like I said, airplanes and helicopters are completely different monsters. Being new to helicopters means you're getting a lot of information thrown at you. There's a lot going on when you're learning to hover. Handling radio calls, listening to your instructor, trying to maintain your position over the ground as well as your height and heading. Where's the wind coming from? How will it affect my next pedal turn? You may not even be THAT far yet...

 

I've seen more than a few people come on this board talking about how frustrated/discouraged they are because of various reasons. So yes, it's natural.

 

As for the family and feeling guilty.... Whose life are you living? Yours, right? Who are you living it for? If you say anything other than "myself" in response to that question, assuming you have no wife/kids, you're dead wrong. You need to live the life that makes YOU happy. If other people get pissy and try to bring you down, you need to reconsider their position in your life or at the very least, tell them to back off.

 

Also, go take that Cessna flight! If you need a break from helicopters, take it! Go have some fun! This should be an enjoyable experience for you, not a dreadful one. Make sure it is. Take a break from flying helicopters for a week or so and go do something you enjoy. Just because their program says it takes 5-6 months (which is a REALLY short amount of time for all that's in store) doesn't mean you have to do it in that amount of time. It's your money, your training, your future. Not theirs. Don't let them bully you into flying when you're really not feeling it. All you'll be doing is paying for a flight where you'll have mental blocks up and won't learn anything and quite possibly, regress. Which makes it even MORE discouraging.

 

 

Cliff notes?

-Slow down, you don't need to train THAT much this early.

-Yes your feelings are natural. Many have had those same thoughts

-It's your life, don't let others bring you down. Make yourself happy before you try to make others happy.

-Take a break, go have a fun flight, even if it's in an old 182.

-Don't fly if you're not feeling it. It will hamper your ability to learn.

-Don't let your school bully you into flying 8 days a week. This is YOUR training, not theirs.

 

 

 

 

 

Yea, I said it. 8 days a week. Because sometimes it feels like monday happened twice,,,

[pilot#476398]

I wanted to quit a thousand times during my private training, that's normal! At least stick it out until you have your PPL, after that if you still dread flying the next day, stop there and just fly as a hobby!

[aeroscout]

There must be something wrong with me. I am beginning to doubt every post like the OP's is genuine and authentic. I am seeing trolls everywhere now it seems. I hope it's not just me.

[Mad Dog]

Hi Barker,

 

I started flying Helicopters after having flown both gliders and airplanes. Having said that, flying that much for a new student is not an effecient use of your money. The fact that you feel tired is not suprising at all. I personally believe that 16 hours in that short a time is a waste of your money.

I was lucky and had a great CFI for my private training that made sure I got the most out of my money. When I started I told him wanted to fly a lot, he could have taken advantage of that and said okay but he did not. Instead he told me that we would start slow and if I wanted to and he did not think I was too fatigued we could go up to flying 6 flights a week max. Additionally each day I flew involved 1 flight and it ways almost always < 1 hour. If I was having a bad flying day he would tell me and we would stop the flight rather than waste more money. He was awesome! :-)

Whether or not you are cut out for it is up to you.

In terms of family life, I have only just began my life in the Helicopter world so I do not have as much to say as others with more experience in this world... But, I did get my first CFI job offer. It is far far away from where I am and I will be moving away from my boyfriend of 7 years. We have talked about it and he is really supportive of what I am doing which is great, but it will of course be hard.

It will be hard to be picky with the location of your first CFI job. It took me a while to find the job I am about to start but am very excited about it.

[zippiesdrainage]

I agree with the above posts. You're flying way too much for a beginner. If its the school policy to work that hard on a student you may want to find another flight school. You need time to relax and reflect on what you're learning and most people learning at that pace won't have a high retention rate. Any school can boast start to finish in X amount of time, but most don't because they know its not realistic. There's a lot of FAA material about the fundamentals of learning and operating while fatigued and the pace of education you're describing is sending up red flags for me. Be safe out there and establish your own comfort level and limitations early in your career, it'll save your life someday.

[Whiteshadow]

I cannot imagine trying to go from 0 to CFII in 6 months! If that is happening, then your school is trying to crank you guys out there, and you will not really fully understand what you are doing. And it also tells me that the DPE's your school is using must not expect much, at least not in the way of knowledge. It just isn't possible to really KNOW all the things you need to know in that short amount of time. It took me 6 months to get my PPL, and I study more than most people. I still didn't have a full understanding of a lot of the concepts! How can your school expect to turn out people who know the material well enough to teach (CFI), if they barely learned enough to "kinda" understand it for themselves????

 

Am I right???

[Pilot4him]

Like everyone else said, slow down!

When you get more experience, you can take more training, but for now only fly as much as you can still absorb

[Counterrotate]

3-5 hours a week is optimum when combined with book study and ground instruction. Optimally for every hour you fly you should be doing about twice as much ground/study. Do much more than that and you will simply be overwhelmed. 0-CFII in six months not only sounds extremely challenging, but borderline a scam. Although it certainly is POSSIBLE to accomplish, by the time you get done you will already be burned out, and probably in a very dangerous mindset.

[DieselBoy]

0-CFII in six months not only sounds extremely challenging, but borderline a scam.

 

 

I completely agree with WhiteShadow and Counter. You're only a week in and already burnt out! How can you expect to learn, understand, progress, and retain for another 5 months and 3 weeks?? 0-CFII normally takes 2-3 years for people to complete. You are paying for school and this is your dream, don't let 1 school ruin it. Flying is the easy part, actually understanding the ground school to keep yourself legal and safe is the most critical. Fast paced courses are great for some industries, but not when lives are at risk. Slow down and enjoy it.

[avbug]

Aviation is not a numbers game. One cannot simply achieve a requisite number of flight hours and be done. If that were the case, one could finish a pilot certificate in a couple of weeks.

 

Fast courses have been around for some time, but they don't offer nearly what one ought to get by taking one's time and absorbing the material.

 

One is far better learning to fly over time, rather than all at once, because internalizing the material and allowing learning to occur is critical to the process. Becoming aware at a visceral level of what has taken place during a flight or lesson is important, and that's not an instant process.

 

As you shower, drive to work, ruminate about the flight, and think about it before bed, aspects of what happened will occur to you, or your thinking about what took place will mature, and you'll approach the next lesson with a different perspective. You can end up doing the same flight several times in this way, and take something entirely different from it each time.

 

Some of the best counsel I got early in my training was to close my eyes while sitting in a rocking chair, and hold a broom stick in place of the flight controls. Re-live the lesson, play it out while feeling it as I moved the "controls" and the chair. Over and over. Then go sit in the aircraft on the ramp or in the hangar and do that. Then go fly again. Repeat.

 

It makes a difference; more than you might think.

 

Take time to absorb, rather than rushing through it. Learn to crawl before you walk. Learn to walk before you run. Trying to reach the end product too fast is counterproductive, and as you've found, tiring and difficult. Flight training is as much about the journey as it is reaching the finish line.

[MileHi480B]

Here is your 12-step program Bro ...

 

1. Love

2. Research

3. Love

4. Desire

5. Love

6. Training

7. Love

8. Accomplishment

9. Love

10. Ratings

11. Love

12. Career

 

Keep the love or it all goes out the window.

[JCM5]

Maybe train at a part 61 school and do it at your own pace.

[rjl2001]

My advice, like nearly everyone else's, is to slow down a little bit. Maybe try cutting that number of flight hours in half next week and see how you feel after that. You're training will be a lot better if you're enjoying it. Besides that's too much money to pay for something you don't absolutely love doing. I can see being drawn to the idea of completing the whole program in 6 months, but you might reevaluate your circumstances after reading your post. Additionally, each individual learns differently and at different speeds. Some frustration is natural during pilot training, but shouldn't become too overwhelming. Stress and fatigue are both important factors that can effect someones performance while flying and learning.

 

Almost reminds me of the engineering students at the college I went to, who try to finish what is almost a five year degree in as little time as possible. Sure they might graduate a couple semesters early if they're successful, but they always seem to be getting sick more often or not enjoying themselves nearly as much. (in relation to their peers)

[copterkeith06]

Hello Barker I'd like to know how old you are, some people will tell you it doesn't matter but, it does. I know this first hand. Email me if you'd like, I'll tell you how it is, instead of the same old crap. At the risk of causing myself a whole bunch of greef, I'll just say it- if you're not pretty, under 35 years old, or a girl, don't waste your time or money. There are way too many 25 to 35 year old pilots looking for work and that seems to be what chief pilots want. I have more experience than two that I know and they got the jobs, because, this right from the chiefs mouths, "guys over 40 don't pickup on the on the job training as quick". I say Bullshit- and no, I don't have a bad attitude. I never use to anyway. Btw- I have had two part time flying jobs and more to come. Good luck brother.

[ridethisbike]

Keith, age doesn't matter in this guys situation. He's 4 hours away from being able to solo. Part of being able to solo is passing a test per 61.87 on various subjects. I find it VERY hard to believe a student could truly understand those things inside of a week. He'd have to memorize it all, pray it didn't leak out his ears while he was sleeping, pass the test, and then pray he retained it for the future. At the rate he's going, it won't happen.

[Astro]

16hrs in about a week does seem a bit much. I averaged 2hrs a day during my initial training, but it was only 5 days a week, and it ended up taking me around 6 weeks to get my ppl. We did have guys who did it in just one month though, and our program was 0-cfii in 6 months, which can be done if you have all the funds and nothing else going on in your life!

 

However, flying when you want to and having to flying are two different things! Commercial aviation may not be for you?

[PondJumper]

Starting out at 16 hours a week is absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure you are exhausted and dread flying. Starting out trying to fly a helicopter is exhausting at 5 hours a week and you are guaranteed to suck at it for at least the first 12 hours or so. Nobody enjoys doing something they suck at, especially if its exhausting.

 

That being said, once you reach a point where it doesn't take everything you have just to stay off the ground it starts to become fun. Then it becomes really fun.

 

Like everyone else said, slow your flying waaay down. Throttle back to 4 flights a week with each flight lasting about an hour. If you fly more than that in the beginning, you are doing more harm than good and throwing your money away.

[avbug]

At the risk of causing myself a whole bunch of greef, I'll just say it- if you're not pretty, under 35 years old, or a girl, don't waste your time or money. There are way too many 25 to 35 year old pilots looking for work and that seems to be what chief pilots want.

 

That's just not true.

 

If anything, it's the opposite.

[Wally]

I have found flying to be a rewarding career. But it is WORK, first, last and always. I am paid to make it happen whether I want to or not at that particular moment, and that's the easy part. Saying no to a flight when I really want to fly is harder.

 

7&7, 14&14, whatever schedule you work, the family life part will be a challenge. My profession can be easily mistaken for an obscure hobby, and it makes spectacular news when it goes badly- Google helicopter pilot texting accident. Your loved ones won't understand why you want this...

I see the family an hour a day (max) when I'm on duty. It's not unusual to leave before they're up and come home after all are in bed. Your significant other and family must be unusually supportive and patient to make this work.

 

If you are willing to risk $100,000 and a couple years of your life to get the chance to do this professionally, go for it. You have to be willing to fail- and fail happily while being miserable as all get out- to ever accomplish anything worth doing.

[copterkeith06]

Avbug- could you please explain to me how it's not true & the opposite?

[eagle5]

I just got passed over for a job I was more than capable of doing, maybe it was because I'm 41 and not as pretty as I think I am!

[ericcbohn]

I know its putting everyone in my family under a lot of stress and worry, with helicopters being viewed as potential death traps. They are all supportive and encouraging, but I can hear the tension in their voices when I explain how my training is going.

People that aren't in aviation aren't likely to understand it. When I tell someone i stalled an airplane their eyes get big and they probably imagine the airplane doing a hammerhead or tumbling out of the sky, but you and i both know the reality is much different - point being, don't let non-aviators drive your aviation decisions like that. You're going to have to deal with this kind of anxiety with your students when you become a CFI, so this could be a perfect time to work on your ability to help people (your family) understand the reality of flying.

 

I'm with everyone else and think you're probably burnt out. Take a few days off and see if you miss it.

[avbug]

Avbug- could you please explain to me how it's not true & the opposite?

 

Without knowing your background and experience in aviation, I can only speak from my own. I've been flying since my mid teens; I was in aircraft before I was in a car. The usual back then; solo at sixteen, private at seventeen, commercial and working at eighteen, and so on. I used to have people check my drivers license before they'd get into an aircraft with me. Young pilots? Not impressive.

 

I've found that as I've become older (I'm not young, and I'm not old...sort of that Jethro Tull too old to rock and roll, but young enough to not quite die yet phase) employers have become progressively more interested, and have provided more and more respect. I've met very few places in aviation where youth is favored, or where an employer would prefer a young inexperienced buck over an experienced hand. There does come a point in advancing years where employes begin to decline acceptance, but frankly, most employers look for a mature, experienced aviator.

 

The positions that look for young and inexperienced are very entry level, and are usually for people who can't get hired anywhere else, and who will work for peanuts. Those employers don't seek out older, more experienced aviators because they can't get the more valuable class of pilot. In turn, they settle for what they can get with the meager pay they offer.

[Counterrotate]

I think this all comes down to the life's not fair/ life is what you make it argument. For all you pilots out there that can't get jobs, are getting passed up for jobs, and have all sorts of excuses why (like "I'm not young or attractive"), ask yourself one question: Are you really as employable as you think you are? I know some older (mid to late 30's) guys that have successfully gotten into the tour industry (which is what I presume you must be talking about as it is the only industry I have worked in that might give half a sh*t about sex appeal). You may think you are just as capable and employable as the next guy, but then again, maybe you're not... I certainly have met some pilots that thought they were all that and a tube of Pringles, but they were about the last person I would ever want to share a cockpit (or anything else for that matter) with. It's easy to blame the industry for your lack of success. It's a lot harder to come to grips with the fact that there is some shortcoming you have to overcome to make yourself competitive for a job in this industry.