Future of helicopter pilots in general (Any Thoughts)

[Ardo09203]

Before reading, please note that this is mostly a rant. I am writing this as a way to get some things off my chest, but I am genuinely interested in the responses to the questions at the bottom.

 

I've decided to write this post in order to get some feedback from other WOFT hopefuls, as well as current Army Aviators. I'm sure that this post belongs in the "General" section, but I really only post in here, so I decided this is where it will go. Although it pertains to the helicopter industry as a whole, and not just military aviation.

 

What is the deal with this career/industry? I have never seen a profession so hell bent on waiting for itself to expire. When I first decided to pursue my passion for helicopters as a career, I first turned to civilian aviation. I'm sure we all know why most people shy away from flying privately...MONEY!!! Everyone knows you need lots of it if you plan to make it in the civilian world (has to be the only career out there that cost more to get into, than stands to be made). But not me, as dumb an idea as it was, I was willing to take on any number of loans to achieve my dreams of becoming a pilot (thank god I didn't). The number one thing that made me decide against becoming a pilot at the time....this forum, and others like it! I came to this forum seeking advice on everything from flight schools, to side jobs, to ways to break into this industry. What I found were countless excuses for why not to become a pilot, and I'm sure we've all heard them too. Sure some may agree that is just other pilots giving it to me straight. While I agree with that for the most part, it is still very discouraging to anyone looking to become a pilot, regardless of type. So I turned to the military.

 

I've always wanted to serve, but I never knew in what capacity. When I learned of the Army's WOFT program I was stoked, I was all about it from that point on (granted this was only about 2 months ago). It seems every decision I have made since then, has been made with becoming an Army Aviator in mind. Everything from getting back in shape, to going back to school, to even working my way towards getting out of what little debt I have.

 

I returned to VR, only this time to the .Mil section, seeking advice on my path forward through the WOFT process. I've met some great people thus far, and I'm sure I will meet many more. These people have been so helpful, that a couple of times I had to check my address bar to make sure I was still on VR as these folks were so welcoming and encouraging.

 

As of late however, it seems that all of a sudden the "doom and gloom" of the civilian side is making its way to the military section. It seems every day now I see a post about how the military is downsizing, and how all WO's better get ready to pack up, or how the Army is getting ready to nix an air frame or two in favor of UAVs.

Of course the military is downsizing! If you didn't notice that a year ago when POTUS made his speech about removing troops from Afghanistan then quite frankly you're blind! It just amazes me how many people are all of a sudden acting like this is new news and bringing a dark cloud with them.

 

Guys (gals), I understand that it's hard to get a job in the civilian world. Consequently, I understand the tough selection process into an Army that is taking in new troops, as fast as they are letting them go. What I don't understand is why anyone even still bothers to try. If the helicopter industry as a whole is really that bad, then why does anyone even still care about it. Why do you return to VR everyday to discuss flying, or joining the army, even though everyone says it's going to S#!$?

 

For me the answer is simple, I want to be a helicopter pilot! I don't really care what it takes to get there either. For those that don't understand the intensity of my desire. I want to FLY, as bad as I want to BREATHE!!! But for me it's not just about flying, it's about everything that comes with being a pilot in the military. Being an Army Aviator is on my mind from the time I wake up in the morning, to the time I go to bed at night. This is why I return to VR everyday, to remind myself of my dream, and how closely within reach it really is. That is why I haven't given up on this industry. Sure, I understand that while right now may not be the best time to become a pilot, I feel that ignoring my dream will only make me resent myself later. After all, there is no time like the present.

 

So, why do you still have dreams of being a pilot? Or for those of you that are pilots, why do you continue to pursue that passion? Even with the "doom and gloom" surrounding this industry/profession.

[WolftalonID]

I completely agree with you. I am a pilot now, and the work has come to me. I have always wanted to be a pilot, and once given the opportunity, I ran with it, loans or not.

 

I just recently finished school, and through out the process was surrounded by other instructors, past instructors, and DPE's that truly enjoyed being pilots. These individuals were living the dream, and encouraged those around them to live it too.

 

I honestly think that those who crap on others dreams should really leave the industry, and find what it is that makes them happy. Imagine how many new slots would open up for those who actually love this career?

 

This is truly a dream come true for me, and is not looked at as work. Flying is so damn awesome, and i get to do it everyday,

 

So keep living your dream bro, and smile, because you too have found the reason to live, and dream. What an awesome career!

[Yamer]

my wife has a great saying.... when reading reviews about products online she says... "nobody ever is happy enough to post about good stuff, they expect that from the product, but everyone that is negative makes sure to post their thoughts quickly".... kinda applies to the internet in general. granted most here are happy in their careers and great people but talking about the bad sides seems to be an easier conversation than how much of an awesome career and opportunity they have in their hands. take online reading for what its worth but i get my motivation from the flightline where life is great all the time and people have nothing but awesome things to say about it.

[I3uller]

Another thing to note from my own personal experience in the Army is that you always hear much more doom and gloom through rumors than what ever actually comes down to reality.

 

Run with what is going on now for certain. The Army is still taking civilians in and training them and paying them to fly some of the coolest helicopters in the world for the greatest nation in the world. Roll with the punches in the future.

[SBuzzkill]

We're not salesmen or recruiters. I've posted plenty of info on here about how good this job is. I experience the good things all day and I talk about it with my friends. We also bitch a lot to each other because that's how we blow off steam. A lot of what you see on here is bitching and ranting. Welcome to the community.

[Ardo09203]

We're not salesmen or recruiters. I've posted plenty of info on here about how good this job is. I experience the good things all day and I talk about it with my friends. We also bitch a lot to each other because that's how we blow off steam. A lot of what you see on here is bitching and ranting. Welcome to the community.

 

I hear ya, it just seem that most people on this forum (and other aviation related forums) love to bitch more than they enjoy flying. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand how no one talks about the good things, but everyone hears about the bad things over and over. I just find that it happens more so when talking about aviation.

[Justine]

Welcome to the Army. Soldiers LOVE to complain. Take it for what its worth.

 

[aeroscout]

There are threads on this forum that are positive on the subject of flying helicopters. You might have to dig a little to find them. For those who are willing to do what it takes and make sacrifices there is a path that will lead to achieving their goals. I think it's not negative to point that out.

[ronricorum88]

Bitching and complaining isnt specific to the Army. All branches are guilty of it. In the end of the day, the majority of us have a smile on our faces knowing we serve in the greatest nation.

[50convert]

Bitching and complaining isnt specific to the Army. All branches are guilty of it. In the end of the day, the majority of us have a smile on our faces knowing we serve in the greatest nation.

Shoot, I think it is specific to working in general!

[Ardo09203]

Shoot, I think it is specific to working in general!

 

Haha I hear that!

 

I'm not complaining about the bitching, or at least I'm not trying to. What's got me bent out of shape is the constant "dark cloud" that surrounds aviation. All of sudden there seems to be a "sky is falling" feel on this broad and I just find it disheartening.

[Jester2138]

All of sudden there seems to be a "sky is falling" feel on this broad and I just find it disheartening.

 

Wars are winding down and we don't need as large a military as we did 10 years ago.

 

That's a good thing. It'll make it harder for me to join but if that's the reason then I'm all for it!

[50convert]

 

Haha I hear that!

 

I'm not complaining about the bitching, or at least I'm not trying to. What's got me bent out of shape is the constant "dark cloud" that surrounds aviation. All of sudden there seems to be a "sky is falling" feel on this broad and I just find it disheartening.

Yeah, even when I was getting my commercial license, the cloud would appear. However, when you are in the plane or ask any airline pilot how he likes his job you'll never hear one complain.

 

I tell people that it's terrible so there isn't as much competition. lol

[ronricorum88]

LOL^ i think thats the idea.

[Velocity173]

The fact is, life in the Army isn't a rosé garden Some of its bitching but most of it is just people being honest. Life as a WOFT now is different than it was 10yrs ago. You've heard of it all before but I'll stress it again; less flying, more BS work. That's what happens after war. Good thing about war, you're not deployed. Bad thing about no war, being a warrior with no war to fight and no money to train, gets boring. Also there's an alarming trend that I started to see my last few years in. The lines are starting to get blurred between the Comission side and the warrant side. I won't go into details but lets just say being a tactical and technical expert isn't as distinct as was it used to be.

 

You just won't know it's for you until you come in. If you're someone who has a good financial position, in a job you like, living in a town you like then WOFT may not be for you. If it was everyone's cup of tea than all the people I went to WOCS with would've retired with me. I had plenty of friends who went to greener pastures in the civilian sector making as much money with less BS to deal with.

 

Realize also that while this field is new and exciting for you, those of us who have done it for awhile it becomes more of a job. While I still enjoy it, the newness and excitement wears off after a while.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Velocity173

[Joe_P148]

Don't let this J.O.B. define you. Yes it is an amazing job but it's not the bane of your existence.

 

Most of the people that get out of the Army don't even have any desire in flying anymore I think the reason for this is that we have been there and done that.

 

Why would I work for $50,000 a year competing with guys that have been scraping by with R22 and R44 time when I could get a job in corporate america making $100,000 a year? Granted you have to have some credentials to make that kind of loot, but you know what I mean.

 

You want to be a pilot more than anything! Great harness that energy into motivation, just don't let it be your downfall.

 

Many guys and gals in the Army Plateau after flight school, to a lot of people flight school is the best they are going to do because frankly, that's all they wanted to do, maybe they'll Track TOO!

 

Don't let this career define you. Don't become one of those people who puts a million, Oh-58, UH-60 or AH64 stickers all over your car and introduces yourself at home as a army pilot.

 

People preach doom and gloom because it is the truth cut backs are everywhere and although this job may be better than flippin burgers at Carls Jr. It will never be what ti used to be and the commands are tightening down the reigns on us warrants. Be forewarned we deal with BS just as much as enlisted folks and you aren't going to get 1,000 hrs as fast as you used to.

 

Also to note, you are new. Most of the senior aviator's out there are not kind to new people, never was and never will be. It's not that we don't care, we do. It is tough love in aviation. The schools just blow fairy dust up your arse to get your money! When you show up to a unit you are not a pilot you are a student pilot the students that are cool will become part of the team quickly and the people that feel like they are entitled to flight time and VIP treatment will be squashed. You are going to see people quit like never before. Weeding out the people that don't want it that bad and don't really care.

 

So What keeps me going? well, moving forward... Going to other organizations that do other than normal flying. Bettering myself, inside or outside the cockpit. Taking care of my family and supporting my country. Becoming a better more humble human being and officer. Looking for my next rush of Adrenalin.

[Velocity173]

Oh as far as the future of the civilian helicopter segment, it's wide open. Plenty of openings online and with every public opening you can bet there's just as many internal ones as well. Just don't have enough experienced pilots to fill the gaps. I can tell you the company I work for we might be short pilots but they don't reduce the mins to hire anyone. We just work more overtime to make up for it.

 

I'm sure you've heard of all the civilian flight school graduates complaining that they can't break in the field. I look at it this way, when I had my commercial rotorywing ticket and 250 hrs, there's no way I would have hired myself or anyone of my peers into a single pilot commercial gig. That's with quality training in multi engine aircraft. You just don't get to experience too many dynamic situations with a few hundred hours. Even after 1,000 hrs I though I knew everything but looking back now I really wasn't as good as I thought.

 

So, the helicopter market is growing but it's very restrictive in who they accept. The current military civilian training climate is tough to build the necessary hours to get hired. Not bitching, it's just the facts.

[akscott60]

When you start getting paid to do something it quickly loses its luster. Furthermore, flying is down the list of sh*t we do on a daily basis.

 

I am at JRTC. It sucks.

 

I once had singular drive and passion. Select 58s and be the top of my class. I did and I was. Now different things are important. Family is the top of my list.

[pilot#476398]

Oh as far as the future of the civilian helicopter segment, it's wide open. Plenty of openings online and with every public opening you can bet there's just as many internal ones as well. Just don't have enough experienced pilots to fill the gaps. I can tell you the company I work for we might be short pilots but they don't reduce the mins to hire anyone. We just work more overtime to make up for it.

 

I'm sure you've heard of all the civilian flight school graduates complaining that they can't break in the field. I look at it this way, when I had my commercial rotorywing ticket and 250 hrs, there's no way I would have hired myself or anyone of my peers into a single pilot commercial gig. That's with quality training in multi engine aircraft. You just don't get to experience too many dynamic situations with a few hundred hours. Even after 1,000 hrs I though I knew everything but looking back now I really wasn't as good as I thought.

 

So, the helicopter market is growing but it's very restrictive in who they accept. The current military civilian training climate is tough to build the necessary hours to get hired. Not bitching, it's just the facts.

 

Yeah, the 3000+ hour guys probably have it made, but for us low timers the gap between teaching and EVERYTHING ELSE seems to be growing as well!

 

I would have hired myself at 250 hours to fly single pilot commercial work. Problem was, no one else would!

[Velocity173]

When you start getting paid to do something it quickly loses its luster. Furthermore, flying is down the list of sh*t we do on a daily basis.

 

I am at JRTC. It sucks.

 

I once had singular drive and passion. Select 58s and be the top of my class. I did and I was. Now different things are important. Family is the top of my list.

Oh come on man, it can't be that bad. Laptop, DVDs, Netflix or whatever is you guys are using for streaming and catch up on some Breaking Bad or Dexter.

[akscott60]

I have Verizon with almost no reception. We do have showers and laundry though. Oh, and AC.

 

OP. Life is short. Do what you want.

[Ardo09203]

I have Verizon with almost no reception. We do have showers and laundry though. Oh, and AC.

 

OP. Life is short. Do what you want.

Roger That!

[Skychief80]

I'd say that if you clean the initial post up a bit and trim so e of the fat and slight negativity, you have your essay portion of the packet nailed.

[Ardo09203]

I'd say that if you clean the initial post up a bit and trim so e of the fat and slight negativity, you have your essay portion of the packet nailed.

 

Hmm...Never thought about that

[UH60L-IP]

Not much to add except personal experience.

 

I have had a couple of different "careers." In each of them I felt beforehand that going into the field would be the most awesome thing I could imagine, or at least would fill the desire of what I wanted to do in life. Each time I got in I found something to not like.

 

Perhaps it would have been nice if someone had told me the dark side, or perhaps I should have just listened. It is easy to overlook the manure sitting right in front of your face when all you see is a field of roses.

 

I came into flying, first as a civilian, with the full knowledge that leaving my previous career was the right choice. I then decided that flying for the military would be a better option so I did that. So I'm here now.

 

What have I learned from my civilian non-flying careers, civilian flying career, and now military career? Work sucks. That's why they call it work. If they didn't pay me I wouldn't do it. A novel idea I know.

 

Don't get me wrong. I do enjoy flying. I do not "love" it like I did that first day I was trying to hover nor do I get the same thrill I did during my first auto. While pleasing to the eye, that far away lake is no longer "just an awesome sight from the sky" so much as it is simply a visual waypoint on my planned route of flight.

 

I will most likely stay a pilot until retirement because it is indeed the best career choice I can think of, at least for me. And I do enjoy it. But to be honest, I think being a lawyer would be pretty cool too and the two careers can't be more opposite.

 

At the end of the day, the thing I like best about my career as a helicopter pilot has very little to do with flying. It affords me the ability to spend a good amount of quality time with my family while paying me a reasonable salary that allows me to put a nice roof over their heads. If it did not do that, I would not be doing this.

 

It is important for anyone considering a venture into aviation, military or otherwise, to fully know the good and the bad. It is difficult to become jaded after entering a career if you know what you are getting into beforehand. If you ignore some aspects beforehand you will not last long.

 

I'll be going into work in just a couple of hours, flying a couple of students in a UH-60 Blackhawk. I like doing it. I like teaching. I like to see them learn. I like to see my students excel. I put forth a lot of effort because I want to and because they deserve it. But nothing beats leaving my job, and it is just a job, at the end of the day and coming home.

 

As for the future outlook of helicopter flying careers in both the military and the civilian world. Well, they are tightening. So is every other career so that shouldn't rule out your choice to begin flying. It was difficult when I started - now I count my hours by the thousands, I have lots of night, lots of NVG, lots of turbine, lots of multi-engine, lots of mountain time, I've flown a handful of different aircraft, and I've got some good courses under my belt. I will not have a difficult time finding a job should I get out. Cannot the same be said about any industry? It is tough to start and make low wages, then all of a sudden you stick to it long enough and you find that you are the guy in demand.