Fixed wing rumors

zaurus · March 25, 2014

TriViper

With regards to your questions, let's discuss your options for active duty first. For all Warrant Officers aviators, they must attend AF OTS before the age of 35 once meeting the requirement, basically a 4 year degree. You'll be assigned a rotary wing assignment directly, bypassing SUPT.

A little AF history. The last AF Warrant Officer retired from active duty in the late 70s and in the AFRes in the early 90s. The AF can restore the Warrant Officer rank structure at any time but they wish NOT to do so. 1959 was the last year in which an AF Warrant Officer was appointed.

The AF recognizes the rotary wing skill set of the Army aviator if there's a need for that talent. The AF only produces between 60-70 rotary wing aviators annually. Therefore, it's extremely competitive in SUPT. If the AF requires additional rotary wing aviators for whatever reason, they can always count on the Army in filling that need from their Warrant Officer ranks through AF OTS. Pretty much based on QOL issues.

If an RLO (Commissioned Officer and not a Commissioned Warrant Officer), you must request an inter service transfer (IST). That's nearly impossible for active duty. Once an RLO, you are not allowed to attend another commissioning source.

Since the AF does not recognize Army fixed wing training, Army Warrant Officer aviators must attend AF SUPT before the age of 30 if they desire on flying a fixed wing asset.

In the AFRes and AF ANG, they are more flexible in their regulations. But for active duty, the Army Warrant Officer aviator has the best shot in making the transition to Big Blue in a pilot seat. RLOs not so much for active duty.

Velocity173 · March 25, 2014

Are intra service transfers from Army to Air Force hard to get if you want to fly helos in the Air Force? How about if you want to fly fixed wing in Air Force? Does the age limit still apply for UPT if you're over 30 and already an Army aviator?

Used to be you could do a direct inter service transfer to helos. I know guys who went from H-60s Army straight into 60s in AF & CG without attending flight school. I know people who went FW ANG (transport) who already knew what airframe they were going to fly. The two active A-10 guys I mentioned started from OTS through flight school. They had no airframe guarantee, it was all about grades. All the above mentioned had college degrees before attending.

I would suggest, if flying a fighter is your true goal, then the Army is not for you. A helicopter is no fighter and the training in the Army would have nothing to do with your chances of getting jets in the other services.

brackac · March 25, 2014

Short answer to anyone who thinks the Army will get a CAS fixed wing platform.

The Air Force does CAS, therefore they get the CAS budget. The Army does not do CAS, we do CCA, therefore we do not get part of the CAS budget. If the Air Force gave up a CAS platform to the Army, they would also give up part of their CAS budget. Will never happen. Hundreds of millions of dollars are involved here.

ShaneWey · March 25, 2014

Are intra service transfers from Army to Air Force hard to get if you want to fly helos in the Air Force? How about if you want to fly fixed wing in Air Force? Does the age limit still apply for UPT if you're over 30 and already an Army aviator?

Did you not get in to OTS or something? From your posts it seems like you'd be happier flying jets for another branch.

brackac · March 25, 2014

I think the Army would see C-27s before an A-10 or F/A-18 though....

The Army is currently standing up a C-27 unit.

Velocity173 · March 25, 2014

Did you not get in to OTS or something? From your posts it seems like you'd be happier flying jets for another branch.

I was thinking the same thing.

TV, it seems like your real interest is fighters and you're wanting to substitute an Apache for that desire. It's no fighter. You won't be wearing a one piece flight suit and pulling Gs. You won't exactly be punching holes in the sky either at 140 kts. Basically all the helicopters handle the same and fly at roughly the same speeds...except with 58s migrating birds will pass you up.

There's very little glamour in Army Aviation. While the AF is living large in hotels on TDY, you'll be out in a tent in a field with camo paint on your face. It's flying for a purpose, kind of a "working mans" flying. It's not taking a jet out for a joyride because it's fun.

Choosing Army Aviation is about being a professional and making a difference (hopefully) in a demanding field. As I always harp on, it's about relevance on the battlefield and in the last two wars no other form of aviation has been more reverent than rotory wing.

Velocity173 · March 25, 2014

Oh yeah, you won't have your name on the side of the aircraft and some gay callsign either.

TriViper · March 25, 2014

Oh yeah, you won't have your name on the side of the aircraft and some gay callsign either.

Hey, just because I'm partial to fighters doesn't mean I wouldn't like helos, or any aircraft for that matter. In fact, I'm grateful and looking forward to being an Army aviator. I didn't take an extraordinary pay cut in my civilian job for nothing -- I've genuinely wanted to serve for quite some time and would be thrilled to fly anything. Having said that, can I at least put some cool logo on my Apache helmet? <j/k>

Velocity173 · March 25, 2014

Hey, just because I'm partial to fighters doesn't mean I wouldn't like helos, or any aircraft for that matter. In fact, I'm grateful and looking forward to being an Army aviator. I didn't take an extraordinary pay cut in my civilian job for nothing -- I've genuinely wanted to serve for quite some time and would be thrilled to fly anything. Having said that, can I at least put some cool logo on my Apache helmet? <j/k>

OK, just want you to realize the type of flying and quality of life are completely different between AF & Army.

Apache guys are always big on "flare." You can actually get the visor shield painted...at least they used to.

brackac · March 26, 2014

Apache guys are always big on "flare." You can actually get the visor shield painted...at least they used to.

Frowned upon and not authorized. You really only see it while deployed. The new trend is the skeleton faceshields that the Blackhawk crewchiefs are wearing.

Fliesbecauseracecar · March 26, 2014

. . .
Choosing Army Aviation is about being a professional and making a difference (hopefully) in a demanding field. As I always harp on, it's about relevance on the battlefield and in the last two wars no other form of aviation has been more reverent than rotory wing.

This is the bottom line. Also I have heard more than once, while working with CAS assets A-10s mostly, that they are a little jealous of us, and are more than little bored many days, flying around waiting for a call.

Edited for Political Correctness. . .

brackac · March 26, 2014

This is the bottom line. Also I have heard more than once, while working with CAS assets A-10s mostly, that they are a little jealous of us, and are more than little bored many days, flying around waiting for a call.

Depends on the unit, sometimes frowned upon, sometimes not. If you make friends with your ALSE guy, getting an extra visor off the books is possible.

Big John in your unit?

apacheguy · March 26, 2014

This is the bottom line. Also I have heard more than once, while working with CAS assets A-10s mostly, that they are a little jealous of us, and are more than little bored many days, flying around waiting for a call.

Depends on the unit, sometimes frowned upon, sometimes not. If you make friends with your ALSE guy, getting an extra visor off the books is possible.

It's not unit dependent. Fort Rucker outlawed the practice back in 2005/2006 when that picture of LTC Gabram (1-101 CDR at the time) went public.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CEAQFjAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsafety.army.mil%2FKnowledge_Online%2FPortals%2Fdecember2008%2FUnauthorized%2520ALSE%2520Mods%2520are%2520a%2520NO-GO.pdf&ei=QjEzU-6kG4S-2AX824DIDQ&usg=AFQjCNEK1YACmCuCpwdr7hEUmyTiNoIdlA&bvm=bv.63738703,d.cWc

Fliesbecauseracecar · March 26, 2014

A lot of Big Johns out there I suppose, but yes there is one here.

Joe_P148 · March 27, 2014

Tri

To put it in perspective I flew around a F15 pilot in Iraq moving him to another base and he thought flying with doors off low level was the coolest thing he had ever seen. Just a normal days work for us was exceptional to the AF guys.

A fighter is really a national asset and there's a lot of control over you and what you do. If you like sitting in a capsule at 20000 ft doing orbits and Max endurance then fighter is for you man.

I'd suggest you check out some of the Air Force forums and see how much the fighters and other Air Force aviators bitch about thier job. The grass is always greener.