R44 Self-Fly Hire in US

[RisePilot]

I’m seeking locations that do self-fly hire of R44 helicopters in the US (namely Virginia, North Carolina & Florida). I’m a private pilot and have rented R44s several times in the US, but always find it a lot of work to find a location.

Please let me know of any possible groups in these states. Raven II or Clipper II is preferred. Thanks in advance for any info/advice.

[DizzyD]

These are a relatively rare find in the US. Please share any success with the board.

[r22butters]

"Self-Fly-Hire"? Sounds like something you'd need a commercial license for, but anyway,...

 

Been renting for almost fifteen years now and the availability to rent a 44 has been few and far between! Personally, if I had two friends that always wanted to go up with me I'd rent an Enstrom. If I had three friends that always wanted to go up,...

 

I'd tell one of them to get their own damn pilot's license!

 

Good luck pal!

[DizzyD]

self-fly-hire = UK equivalent to Part 91 rental aircraft

[RisePilot]

Yes, this is merely just “renting” a R44 to fly with friends/family and has nothing to do with holding a commercial license. I have “hired” R44s in Florida, NC and California prior, but it has always been difficult to find locations that hire out R44s (seems everyone is keen to rent you a R22 though).

I’ve also hired R44s in the UK, Spain and South Africa. There is nearly always a requisite local check flight, which is expected.

This is something I wish to do while on holiday or visiting an area; I fly for enjoyment and this has nothing to do with hour building.

Would also be interested in locations near NYC, LA or San Francisco.

[r22butters]

Hmmn, do you guys also Self-Drive-Hire cars when on vacation?

 

Sorry I can't help with the 44, all the places I knew that had one, either no longer exist or don't have a 44 anymore.

[rafael.pilot]

self fly hire? what is that mean?

[Boatpix]

I can help you with R44's in Florida and Houston. R22's in Virginia and North Carolina. Why don't you call me at 561-346-2816.

[RisePilot]

For an update, I’ve found an operator that will rent me an R44 in Florida. However, it is more of a special arrangement for me; so, I don’t want to list their details on a forum. Regarding North Carolina (eastern and central area), I hired from Total Flight Solutions in Louisburg who were quite professional/easy to deal with.

I’d still be interested in other locations near-ish to the larger international airports (LA, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Washington DC, Chicago, etc).

I do find the US very odd in regard to private helicopter flying in that it seems to solely focus on training to work in the industry (or hour building to do the same). Back in 2006 when I got my FAA license and did my R44 conversion, there was a R44 Raven II at the KISM FBO which I promptly hired to take my wife and family for flight – however, I only realised many months later that I had been hiring the only R44 available for private hire in the whole state of Florida.

Once you have a wife and kids, the R22 doesn’t cut it any more and only the R44 is of use for some occasional flying on either business trips or holiday. Of course, I have zero interest in having a safety pilot come along (that would only take up the front seat with a stranger and what am I going to do with him/her while we have a leisurely lunch away from base?)

I have hired in California before, but it took me two-three days of emailing/calling around – it really shouldn’t be this difficult. Conversely, in Europe you just give them a call, come over and do a check flight and you’re good to hire. I’ve done this easily/quickly in UK, Spain, France, Mallorca and South Africa.

[helonorth]

You can rent turbines in Europe, too but it is nonexistent in the U.S.

[r22butters]

Insurance is the biggest obstacle I've come across here in the States. Lets face it, its just not worth the extra cost to them unless maybe you're planning on renting their 44 several times a month!

 

Not many can afford to just get a ppl and rent (certainly not an R44,...I know I can't and I've been renting for fifteen years!). That's why its all about training for a career out here.

 

In the US the R44 is for tours and a lucky few rich private owners. The R22 is for renting!

[RisePilot]

I disagree; costs are not the sole driving reason. Every cost you have (in US) is higher here in the UK or across Europe. However, if you are in London, you can pick up the phone tomorrow morning and have access to 5-6 places that will rent you a heli. Why can’t I find just 1 near some of Americas largest cities?

The US definitely has cities with population/wealth that can support private flying in something like a R44. I’m not talking about every “hick town” in rural areas or poor states, but there is no reason if you’re near Manhattan, Los Angeles or Miami that you shouldn’t be able to find somewhere nearby to privately fly a helicopter (a 4-seater that you can take family/friends). You have the largest and best funded GA infrastructure on the planet. When I’ve been at US FBOs, I’m always astounded at what I see re fixed-wing - I see single persons (on their own) with a golf bag over their shoulder get into a Gulfstream, start it up and fly away. The US is fantastic for fixed wing, but for helicopters, the private flying community is quite lacking.

If anything, it’s distances not cost (US being physically bigger). Planes are great for longer distances, helis are better for shorter hops and greater access to sites.

[r22butters]

Pretty much everything we do here is driven by profit. If there was profit to be made in renting out 44s they'd be doing it!

 

Incidentally, a local school/flying club recently shut down the helicopter side of their operation,...wasn't financially sustainable is what I heard!,...fixed wing side is doing just fine of course!

 

Everyday I'm passed by Tesla's, Beemer's, Merc's, Lexi, and even the ever more frequent, Lambo and Ferrari!

 

If we can't sustain rental 44's then,...?!

 

,...we also have plenty of nice places a 44 could easily jont off to, without going very far!

 

I'm perfectly happy in the 22, but I am a bit surprised in the decline of 44's in the area!?

[RisePilot]

Damn I don't understand US helicopter operators. Made a call to a US group; they will rent you a R44 - that's a start at least.

 

Oddly though, they have you do two separate check flights with two different instructors. WTF? why would they not trust the judgement of one of their instructors?

 

No Goddamn wonder there is no private helicopter pilot scene in the US. Seems everyone is on fire to build hours and get the f*ck out of instructing. On my last several FAA BFRs, I find I end up giving the CFI training/tips.

[Thedude]

Damn I don't understand US helicopter operators. Made a call to a US group; they will rent you a R44 - that's a start at least.

 

Oddly though, they have you do two separate check flights with two different instructors. WTF? why would they not trust the judgement of one of their instructors?

 

No Goddamn wonder there is no private helicopter pilot scene in the US. Seems everyone is on fire to build hours and get the f*ck out of instructing. On my last several FAA BFRs, I find I end up giving the CFI training/tips.

That’s because in this country we approach flight training all wrong. Somehow it’s the norm to take guys who were just certified with no real world experience and have them start instructing the stuff they’ve just finished learning.

[helonorth]

Somehow it’s the norm to take guys who were just certified with no real world experience and have them start instructing the stuff they’ve just finished learning.

 

Outside of the military, I would imagine it's like that around the world. Seems to work okay; solution in search of problem.

[RisePilot]

No that's not true. I live in Europe, but did my initial FAA training in the US.

 

For both my initial training and subsequent BFRs over the years, I don't think I've ever had an instructor with more than 300ish hours in the US.

 

In Europe, my instructors seldom have less than 1000 hrs. Often 5K or 10K plus hours. The real difference is that in Europe it is more about enjoyment of life and those instructing do it more than just monetary reasons.

 

Oddly, if your goal is to make a lot of money, aviation shouldn't really be a focus anyhow. Rotary or fixed-wing - this is no business sector to line your pockets (maybe make enough money to live a average/comfortable life), but not really much more. Common to any occupation that is truly fun and people do as a hobby - there will always be people who will do it for less.

[helonorth]

 

For both my initial training and subsequent BFRs over the years, I don't think I've ever had an instructor with more than 300ish hours in the US.

 

 

 

So what? Plenty of instructors out there with 1,000 plus. There is very little else they can do. And try enjoying life on $20K a year for your whole career.

Edited December 3, 2017 by helonorth

[helonorth]

I have 6,000 hours. They're really isn't anything I can teach now that I couldn't teach a 500. The "high time instructor is better" thing is a myth.

[r22butters]

I have 6,000 hours. They're really isn't anything I can teach now that I couldn't teach a 500. The "high time instructor is better" thing is a myth.

 

Halfway through my instrument training my 4000 hour instructor left for the GOM.

 

My new instructor was a fresh off the assembly line 200 hour guy. The rest of my training didn't go so well, and two days before my checkride it was discovered that there were a few things he had forgot to teach me! (lesson number 2, pay more attention to what you're supposed to be learning!)

 

I have flown with cfi's ranging from 200 hours to 30,000 hours and personally I feal that 800 hours is a good cut off! Instructors with at least 800 hours seem to finally be more comfortable in the cockpit, and thus seem to be better teachers!

 

Below 800 hours they should just do photos and tours!

[helonorth]

The rest of my training didn't go so well, and two days before my checkride it was discovered that there were a few things he had forgot to teach me! (lesson number 2, pay more attention to what you're supposed to be learning!)

 

 

Learning IS exceedingly difficult if you don't pay attention. You needed a flight instructor to tell you this? Odd that an instructor would put someone like that up for a check ride. I wanted my students to pass just as much as they did.

 

I should have added that the "high time instructor is better" myth is usually perpetuated by low timers with little to base it on.

[helonorth]

My new instructor was a fresh off the assembly line 200 hour guy. The rest of my training didn't go so well, and two days before my checkride it was discovered that there were a few things he had forgot to teach me! (lesson number 2, pay more attention to what you're supposed to be learning!)

 

 

What was lesson one? Show up?

[r22butters]

Learning IS exceedingly difficult if you don't pay attention. You needed a flight instructor to tell you this? Odd that an instructor would put someone like that up for a check ride. I wanted my students to pass just as much as they did.

 

I should have added that the "high time instructor is better" myth is usually perpetuated by low timers with little to base it on.

 

It was one of those big schools where everything was planned out ahead of time and everyone was trained using the same formula, so I just trusted my instructor?

 

A couple years later, at a much smaller, less structured type of school, I hooked up with a CFI for Commercial training, and one day she climbed into the chopper and said to me, "ok, what do you want to do today?" I thought, sh*t, you're the instructor, shouldn't you have a lessn plan,...or something?!

 

Hmm, I guess that makes lesson number 1, instructor's aren't gods, they don't know everything, they can be unprepared, and they can be wrong,...just like the rest of us!