R22 or Bell 47 ??

[Shack]

Hello everyone; would like some opinons. I'm pvt rated rotocraft in R22 and am going to continue my training towards com/cfi. I have the option of doing the remaining time to get my comercial in a Bell 47 and at the time I get my cfi, have been offered the opportunity to use the 47 from my instructor towards my own students wanting to train.

 

Should I spend money for the 47 or continue in the R22??? or is a Bell 47 even a good choice?

 

My plans are to eventually get employment in the utility field and not really do any Robinson training. Yes I know teaching in R22's is the general way to build hours but is it better to have 150 hrs in R22, where you still need 50 more just to teach, or 150 total (117 hrs R22 & 30+hrs in Bell 47) and given the op to push the 47 and build time with it. Are there min. to teach in the 47??

 

I have been told by numorous operators that expierence in larger helicopters is worth more to them than equal time in the Robinson, unless you want to teach exsclusivly in Robinsons (which is not the direction I want to go). Don't want to start any flames here amoung the Robinson guys, I just don't like the R22 and want to go onto bigger fish.

 

Thanks for any replys or please PM if you would like.

[67november]

not a 22 fan so the 47 is the way to go IMO

[apiaguy]

absolutely do the 47!! Great opportunity. No minimum time required (except 5 hrs in type and a cfi to teach).

 

If you can teach some in it that will save you by not having to buy the 50 hrs R22. If it doesn't work out in the long run you may end up with enough to start teaching in the 22.

 

Why would you WANT to teach in the r22 when you could teach in ANYTHING else???? Even the robinson guys can't dispute that... the only thing the robinson has going for it when training is alot of schools use it so they have a good oportunity to get a job.

[Goldy]

not a 22 fan so the 47 is the way to go IMO

 

I am a 22 fan, and the 47 is the way to go !!

 

OK, here's why.

!. You can actually USE the 47 in real commercial opportunities

2. The 47 sounds like a real helicopter

3. Its pretty damn fun to fly, if you dont mind being passed by on the freeways (its kinda slow).

4. Many people feel the 47 is a real helicopter, and the 22 is not. These same people may be your boss some day.

5. You already have all the time you need in a 22, get some time in something else.

6. The 47 sounds like a real helicopter.

7. When you get fat, you can still fly the 47.

 

Goldy

[BOATFIXERGUY]

I am a 22 fan, and the 47 is the way to go !!

 

OK, here's why.

!. You can actually USE the 47 in real commercial opportunities

2. The 47 sounds like a real helicopter

3. Its pretty damn fun to fly, if you dont mind being passed by on the freeways (its kinda slow).

4. Many people feel the 47 is a real helicopter, and the 22 is not. These same people may be your boss some day.

5. You already have all the time you need in a 22, get some time in something else.

6. The 47 sounds like a real helicopter.

7. When you get fat, you can still fly the 47.

 

Goldy

 

Ditto....except I'm not a R22 fan...

[Bell206Pilot]

Hi

 

I've flown both types, and believe it or not both are helicopters when it is all said and done!

 

I believe the overall hourly operational cost on the 47 is better than that of the 22

so for a dollar to cents game I'd use the 47 here, since the bottom line is usually dollars and not just sense!

 

All the above is IMHO generally true

 

I really enjoy the overall visual while in the 47 along with the additional shoulder room too

 

autos in the 47 are more forgiving than a Robi (again my personal opinion here...)

[Goldy]

I believe the overall hourly operational cost on the 47 is better than that of the 22

 

along with the additional shoulder room too

 

autos in the 47 are more forgiving than a Robi (again my personal opinion here...)

Not sure about costs anymore. Most outfits charge around $50 / hour more for the 47 than the 22.

 

Tons more room, especially when you hit 250 on the scales.

 

Way more forgiving, especially as it relates to rotor RPM.

 

I would add I really like the feel. Its hard wired enough to give you the feel of the aircraft ( like on a 22), but not overboosted and sensitive like the 44..its a good compromise between the two.

 

Did I mention it sounds pretty cool too ?

 

Goldy

[Shack]

.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Shack

[Whistlerpilot]

Hi Shack,

 

I did most of my training in the 47, but also have some time in the R22, H269, and B206. I really enjoyed the 47 for a few reasons. It is great to auto, and we did a few hundred full downs as part of the training which I gather isn't the standard in the R22. It has a great feel, and the transition to the B206 is quite natural, though the B206 doesn't have the stabilizer bar and feels a little funny laterally at first. You get to practise hydraulic failures with the 47 which the R22 doesn't provide. I think the best part of learning on the 47 is it is heavy and not very powerful. This teaches you power management. You load up the disc much sooner and kind of chug it in. It is similar to the feel of flying at max gross in the B206 (except for airspeed). It also has lots of leeway with rotor RPM. Got to practise extending the glide with low RRPM and you feel pretty safe with those big wood blades. Just do a super thurough pre-flight, there's more moving parts in the mast system, but at least you can see everything. And of course the view! Nothing beats it, and you fly slow enough to have lots of time to look around!

 

I don't agree with people who say the R22 isn't a real helicopter, but given the choice I would train on the 47. It's better to learn throttle managment too. It makes stuck pedal training much easier when you are good with the throttle. Like Goldy said the 47 makes an awsome wop wop sound. Enjoy!

[Bell206Pilot]

Not sure about costs anymore. Most outfits charge around $50 / hour more for the 47 than the 22.

 

Tons more room, especially when you hit 250 on the scales.

 

Way more forgiving, especially as it relates to rotor RPM.

 

I would add I really like the feel. Its hard wired enough to give you the feel of the aircraft ( like on a 22), but not overboosted and sensitive like the 44..its a good compromise between the two.

 

Did I mention it sounds pretty cool too ?

 

Goldy

 

Yes it does sound very nice too!

 

I wouldn't doubt that the per hour charges are very close to one another, but I would still believe that the cost per hour operation might have a spread to them...can anyone confirm the actually hourly operational cost of the two?

(Not what the going rates block or hourly are) but the actual operational cost for the owner/operator are!

[CJK]

On 1/15/2008 at 11:31 PM, Shack said:

Hello everyone; would like some opinons. I'm pvt rated rotocraft in R22 and am going to continue my training towards com/cfi. I have the option of doing the remaining time to get my comercial in a Bell 47 and at the time I get my cfi, have been offered the opportunity to use the 47 from my instructor towards my own students wanting to train.

 

Should I spend money for the 47 or continue in the R22??? or is a Bell 47 even a good choice?

 

My plans are to eventually get employment in the utility field and not really do any Robinson training. Yes I know teaching in R22's is the general way to build hours but is it better to have 150 hrs in R22, where you still need 50 more just to teach, or 150 total (117 hrs R22 & 30+hrs in Bell 47) and given the op to push the 47 and build time with it. Are there min. to teach in the 47??

 

I have been told by numorous operators that expierence in larger helicopters is worth more to them than equal time in the Robinson, unless you want to teach exsclusivly in Robinsons (which is not the direction I want to go). Don't want to start any flames here amoung the Robinson guys, I just don't like the R22 and want to go onto bigger fish.

 

Thanks for any replys or please PM if you would like.

The Bell 47 is an excellent choice as long as you realize that you are only using it to get the time you need and you are getting it at a price that is better than or equal to the R22. I have 1500-2000 hours in the 47 out of my 16,000 total time and as trainer it is a fine machine to learn with. You will build your confidence better in this machine than most if you are getting good emergency skill training. That means autorotations to the ground, as well as simulated tailrotor failures and hydraulic failures. After mastering those skills you will have the basics for a higher confidence level based on your experience not on passing a paper test. That confidence is required to stay in the helicopter world for very long. You do not want to have any doubts about your abilities before you get into the CFI work and after the CFI work your confidence will be where it needs to be if you have satisfied yourself that you now have the higher skill set required to teach others how to also have that same confidence.Good luck with your choices.

[adam32]

Holy 12 year old thread resurrection Batman! 

[Eric Hunt]

Shack is probably an unemployed 747 pilot now!

[Badmovebro]

Just thought I'd post on here,

I'm looking at doing a CPL and have a choice between a 47 and 22.

Its seems the 47 is the way to go, updated opinions from any seasoned pilots here?

I wonder what Shack is up to these days?

[Wally]

Never flown an R22, but it's apparently a popular trainer, more cost effective- less expensive.

Bell 47s are stable and easy to fly, were the Army's instrument trainer when I was in flight school. They are almost as easy as Hueys.

[helonorth]

If you're doing it for fun, Bell 47. If you are career minded, the R-22. Unless you have an opportunity to teach in the 47, don't bother with it.

[Badmovebro]

Thanks for the feedback Wally and helonorth,

The two training options I'm looking at are pasted below. I think the 206 time would give me the best start to find some work right out of school? I have just about 18 years in the military, taking a break this past 1.5 years, so the 7 year plan to pension off is to try to become a reserve pilot.

50/50 - Bell 47 and Robinson 44
50hrs Bell 47 @ $630/hr
50hrs Robinson 44 @ $860/hr $81,030.00 CAD

50/50 - Bell 47 and Bell 206
50hrs Bell 47 @ $630/hr
50hrs Bell 206 @ $1320/hr $104,720.00 CAD 

[helonorth]

I dunno man. Seems like 80 to a 100 large for training in aircraft nobody will hire you to fly with a 100 hours is the wrong way to go. Unless you have a 1,000 hours you haven't mentioned, the R-22 and instructing is your future. 

[Badmovebro]

Thanks for the pointers! what about buying my own aircraft at 100 hours to go joyriding on nice VFR days to build hours, could make a landing pad at my farm? possible?

[Chuckarmypilot]

On 1/16/2008 at 1:47 PM, BOATFIXERGUY said:

 

Ditto....except I'm not a R22 fan...

I'm an old guy, I learned to fly in the Army, 1968. Flew the TH-55, (Hughes 269 I believe). Then Bell 47, called the TH-13 because it had the huey instrument panel, for instrument training.  Then the UH-1H and UH-1C in Vietnam,  later the OH-58 AND Blackhawk.  I've never got accustom to spending a great deal of cash as the Army didn't pay much. So since the basics of helicopters is about the same, I'd start with the R22, maybe not glamorous but half the price to learn to fly, then move up. That's what I'm doing with my grandson who wants to follow his grandpa, high school to Army flight school. Just want to make sure he's ready, my first flight was holding onto that TH-55, WOW, not easy! Love to hear from you young guys learning to fly. Congratulations....go for it.