500E Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Have a read and the a think as to how to comply. Robinson say you have to refinish blades if the paint is eroded Before the bond line is scoured, so if you re paint as required. The bond line cracks that the NTSB suggest you look out for are being covered with new paint, in some cases at very regular intervals. A case damned if you do & damned if you don't. http://www.verticalmag.com/control/n...es/?a=7891&z=6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Here I was hoping you had mis-spelled "babes", instead it was "blades"..enough said.. OK, I am sick and tired of Robinson and their blade designs...or lack thereof. I wonder if an X Ray would show the internal de-bonding prior to a fatal break up. If so, maybe the answer is to X Ray them every 500 hours or so.. It does seem that there is an increased occurence near salt water. Corrosion seems to get into these blades easily, you have to be sure to inspect the area behind the tip cover and not just look at the outer skin. Anyway, time for Robbie to talk to a third party and get some composite blades built. ....this will really hurt the future R66 sales if they don't come out with something different....I think we have all had enough of the Robbie blade design. Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Reason # 279 to buy an Enstrom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoFlyer Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) Reason # 279 to buy an Enstrom! babes, blades, or hail? Edited June 24, 2008 by PhotoFlyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 time for Robbie to talk to a third party and get some composite blades builtComposite blades and maybe a higher inertia? I've been looking very closly at the blades since day one, and I'm justa hoping that I see a de-bond before a flight. Later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHelicopterPilot Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 For the most part higher inertia would me more weight, weight an R-22 can't spare much of. I'll be honest, have I missed something? I haven't heard of any actual debonding happening. Does anyone know of an actual case? I have seen the notices come out from the factory but that's it. After 1200 hours in them I never saw any problems. Even if the babes I mean blades were composite that doesn't mean there wouldn't be an issue there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLH Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) I'll be honest, have I missed something? I haven't heard of any actual debonding happening. Does anyone know of an actual case? JD, My feelings are the same. As of the time the blade AD was issued, the FAA representative I spoke with said there had been 6 occurances of blade debonding world wide. It is my understanding that in all cases the bond line was exposed and as Goldy pointed out, salt water encroachment was a factor in a number of them. If anyone personally knows of an occasion where debonding has occured in a blade where the bond line was still covered by the original paint, I would like to hear about it. Mike Edited June 25, 2008 by MLH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHelicopterPilot Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 That could be the reason they want the paint on there. To insure that the bond line is not exposed there by leading to de-bonding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 If anyone knows of an occasion where debonding has occured in a blade where the bond line was still covered by the original paint, I would like to hear about it. Mike I'm beginning to think that the paint is the only thing that holds the blades together. Come on Frank, fix the damn thing once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500E Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Will stick to Blabes Some people did not read all NTSB report I feel.A Blabe for Goldy AT last managed to post a photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Will stick to Blabes Some people did not read all NTSB report I feel.A Blabe for Goldy AT last managed to post a photo By chance, does she want to become a helicopter pilot ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montu Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Looks like her pants encountered some rotor blabes. lol. Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHelicopterPilot Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 What a twisted post. LOL It just went every which direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoFlyer Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Lets get back on topic. Umm... what was the original topic? Oh right, her pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500E Posted June 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Lost the thread then people!!! back to NTSB report regarding BLADES? knew I should have PMd Goldy, sorry my mistake.Slow day in the UK, & the team were bored. Just a bit of the link to grab your interest, don't know why bits of it are missing you will just have to read the whole thing. RHC Main Rotor Blade Design The diagram on page 4 shows a cross-section of the outboard portion of an RHC main rotor blade. The tip portion of the blade shown contains a spar at the leading edge, skin overlying a honeycomb core structure trailing the spar, and a tip cap between the spar and the trailing edge doubler. A portion of the leading edge of the upper and lower skin approximately 0.5 inch wide is bonded to the upper and lower surfaces of the spar on the trailing side of the spar. The pieces on the blade are mostly bonded to each other with adhesive epoxy film, which is cured at elevated temperature, and RHC has not changed the adhesive or bonding process since the blades were introduced. A tip cover is secured to the tip of the blade by two attachment screws. On theR22, the length of a main rotor blade between the hub and tip is about 151 inches; on the R44, the length is about 198 inches. Location/Date of Accident/Incident Model Blade P/N Skin/Spar Material Time in service NTSB Number Materials Lab Report No. New Zealand 3/4/06 R22 A016-4 Stainless Steel 470 LAX07WA057 08-026 • Blade exhibited areas of porosity in the adhesive and mixed adhesive and cohesive fracture features with a high percentage of adhesive failure, an indication that the bond strength had degraded after the blade was manufactured. • A failure analysis prepared for the CAA of New Zealand noted that the main rotor blade did not fail as a result of bond failure and concluded that a door from the helicopter separated in flight and probably impacted the main rotor blades, damaging them extensively. Dominican Rep. 10/11/06 R44 C016-2 Stainless Steel 1800.3 DFW07WA002 07-008 • Fracture in the main rotor blade extended through the majority of the adhesive bond joints. • Fracture face of skin-to-spar adhesive bond joints showed adhesive failure at the leading edges of the skin and corresponding surface of the spar; the remaining areas of the bond joints showed mixed cohesive and adhesive fracture features with a high percentage of adhesive failure, an indication that the bond strength had deteriorated after the blade was manufactured. • Adhesive fractures propagated from the general area at the tip of the blade. Fiji Island 12/5/06 R44 C016-2 Stainless Steel 1083 LAX07WA057 07-058 • Extensive separations at the adhesive bond joints. • Origin of the adhesive bond fracture undetermined because fracture features emanated mostly from the tip area of the blade, which was not recovered. However, major portions of the fractures at the adhesive bond joints emanated from the leading edges of the skin. • The fracture features in the adhesive bond joints were markedly similar to those in the Dominican Republic event. Australia 3/15/07 R22 A016-4 Stainless Steel 596.7 LAX07WA057 07-120 • Leading edge of the lower skin at the tip was peeled back about 2.5 inches. • Peel damage extended about 17 inches inboard from the tip. • Lower skin in the area of the skin-to-spar bond joint showed evidence of paint erosion that exposed the bondline to the environment. • Exposed fracture face of the lower skin at the adhesive bond joint between the skin and spar showed randomly mixed adhesive and cohesive failure fracture features with several isolated areas at the leading edge of the skins showing adhesive fracture, an indication that the bond strength had degraded, causing separation of the lower skin. • The fracture features in the adhesive bond joints were markedly similar to those in the Dominican Republic and Fiji events. Note: The New Zealand, Fiji Island, and Australia events are being investigated under accident number LAX07WA057. The rotor blades on both the R22 and the R44 are made of stainless steel skin with an aluminum honeycomb core and stainless steel spar.3 The blades on the R22 are designated as P/N A016-4, and the blades on the R44 are designated as C016-2 or C016-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHelicopterPilot Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Interesting. That was the first time I had heard of those incidents. Guess Frank needs add some more glue to those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 When you read those reports you realize that this is the same de bonding problem that Robinson has had for 20 years ! You would think after that long, they would change something in the formula. One tip I was taught was when doing the 100 hour inspection, remove the blade tip caps entirely and inspect that joint for corrosion. Its a common place for moisture to enter and start the corrosion process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Reason # 279 to buy an Enstrom! Or a 300, a 47, a Hiller, a Brantly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotorrodent Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Will stick to Blabes Some people did not read all NTSB report I feel.A Blabe for Goldy AT last managed to post a photo Is she a semi-(f)rigid rotor or a teetering system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Damn all you male sexist types. All I want is to be able to schedule her demo flight but I seem to have misplaced her number...can someone just resend it to me ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heligirl03 Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Damn all you male sexist types. All I want is to be able to schedule her demo flight but I seem to have misplaced her number...can someone just resend it to me ? omg, lmao. You can stop looking for my number, I already have my certificate thanks! And no reports of delam with paint still intact so far? Get out the Bondo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarab Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 my girfriend took one look and said thats a guy. tranny? thorough preflight always required Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 omg, lmao. You can stop looking for my number, I already have my certificate thanks! Yeah, I thought that was you...same eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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