rotowing Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) Everyone that fly's that helicopter called safe, how do you say that? The NTSB reports for just one year are 47 reported crashes of Robinson helicopters from 03/12/09 till 03/12/10. No other type even comes close to that record! Can't see myself getting in something that safe!! Guess I'll pass on that record book! Fly safe or fly cheap, YOUR LIFE!! Edited March 12, 2010 by rotowing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPPL Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 A look at what actually caused the accidents would give a hint, a fair few are down to pilot error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 I would say over 95% of those are pilot error. Definitely not an unsafe aircraft, especially not the 44. Look at how many of them are there too and in a training environment or owned by inexperienced pilots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamin of a Commuter 2B Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 do you have a break down of the Models? is it mostly the R-22 or the R-44? I have never taken the stick in the Robbie,but I have hated that stupid T bar cyclic from the beginning. I just don't think I could ever get use to that. Your Right 47 crashs don't sound to safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 To All, does even one crash of any aircraft sound safe? I guess no cars are safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamin of a Commuter 2B Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 To All, does even one crash of any aircraft sound safe? I guess no cars are safe! well I don't have any warm fuzzy feelings for Toyota right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 I suppose it depends on how you look at it. How many fatalities were there in those accidents? I'm sure there were more in the one S92 crash or the Puma crash in the north sea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Sorry but that data is useless without knowing the number of Robinsons operating, which is very high, plus you combine the 44 and the 22 for some reason. And Robinsons are cheap so low time people will be flying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 3 types of lies! Little white lies that kids tellLies by adults, salesman, business men and politicians and STATISTICS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelliBoy Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Just to play Devil's advocate here concerning 'Pilot Error', you cant argue that any robinson helicopter isn't the least forgiving of even a slight 'pilot error' than any other commercially produced helicopter. The accident rates are higher for Robinsons and its just a plain fact-it is easier to get into an unrecoverable situation. Also, I dont think the operating numbers are all that much higher for say R22s over say H269s when viewed over the life of the type certificate. Certainly not when comparing the R44 to the B206A/B models. Again- I'm just playing devil's advocate; any helicopter is only as safe as the people maintaining and flying it. If I could get my customers to agree that saving hundreds of thousands of dollars by allowing an R44 to service their contracts I would buy one today. This debate is also the deadest horse in rotary aviation. I feel dirty for having participated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpngonuts Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) Just to play Devil's advocate here concerning 'Pilot Error', you cant argue that any robinson helicopter isn't the least forgiving of even a slight 'pilot error' than any other commercially produced helicopter. The accident rates are higher for Robinsons and its just a plain fact-it is easier to get into an unrecoverable situation. Also, I dont think the operating numbers are all that much higher for say R22s over say H269s when viewed over the life of the type certificate. Certainly not when comparing the R44 to the B206A/B models. Again- I'm just playing devil's advocate; any helicopter is only as safe as the people maintaining and flying it. If I could get my customers to agree that saving hundreds of thousands of dollars by allowing an R44 to service their contracts I would buy one today. This debate is also the deadest horse in rotary aviation. I feel dirty for having participated I couldn't have said it better... I don't have thousands of hours in r/w but I started flying in the bell 47 and lately I've been flying in a r-22. It's a big difference and I can see where it could get you into trouble even faster than a 47 or enstrom would. I think r-22's are a blast to fly but that's just my opinion.. hell I just about became a statistic in a robby yesterday due to pilot error (new cell phone tower in my area) Edited March 12, 2010 by jumpngonuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomer Pylot Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Consider the number of them flying, and who is flying them. There are also a large number of Cessnas with accidents. Both types have something in common - there are more of them around than there are other models, and they're mostly flown in a training environment. Any time you're training new pilots with new, low-time instructors, there are going to be accidents, no matter what model you use. It's not the helicopter that's unsafe, it's the pilots, and the way the helicopter is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r22butters Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 If they're well maintained, and the pilot doesn't do anything he's not supposed to do, the R22 is just as reliable as any other helicopter. You just can't be as reckless in them as you can in the other, more stable ones. They're definitely a lot of fun to fly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom22 Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) I have always wondered if pilot error is a myth? Edited March 12, 2010 by Tom22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodoz Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Good thing we have these forums to get Frank's attention. I'm sure he's on it. On an unrelated note, check out this preliminary report and the recent news story: NTSB [link]Meth of pilot error [link] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotowing Posted March 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) Stats, about 25% of the 47 were R44's, still more that the next copters reports. 269's have been around for a long time and i dare to say that there has been more Robbies crashed than 269's or 300's. even as trainers there have been more from uncoverable events. If cheap is all your life is worth then get a Gyro or something expermental. Sorry my life is worth more than that!! Guess if you have never flown a real helicopter then anything is great Fly safe or fly cheap, YOUR LIFE!! Edited March 12, 2010 by rotowing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) 300's are pretty cheap too man, certainly cheaper than a 44. They are also more stable. Yes it has a good track record but I believe 22 pilots are more sensitive on the controls than 300 pilots. I trained on a 300 by the way! Cheap is a Rotorway, piece of s##t. There are a lot more 22's out there than 300's too. Robbies are just different, require more skill to fly and can bite you quickly. Still don't think they are unsafe though! Edited March 12, 2010 by Trans Lift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 The original 269's were a nasty little beast too by the, lots of deaths when they were originally used by the army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandace Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 I have never taken the stick in the Robbie,but I have hated that stupid T bar cyclic from the beginning. I just don't think I could ever get use to that. I've flown the T bar and after a very short while you don't even notice it. It is not weird at all. Kandace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Agreed. I thought the same before I flew them, I had over 700 hours before I did. I thoght it would feel weird but it doesn't. Very sensitve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamin of a Commuter 2B Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) Stats, about 25% of the 47 were R44's, still more that the next copters reports. 269's have been around for a long time and i dare to say that there has been more Robbies crashed than 269's or 300's. even as trainers there have been more from uncoverable events. If cheap is all your life is worth then get a Gyro or something expermental. Sorry my life is worth more than that!! Guess if you have never flown a real helicopter then anything is great Fly safe or fly cheap, YOUR LIFE!! Well all of my time is in a 1966 TH-55, good solid helicopter. AS for you comment about Experimentals, I have a Rare Single Seat Commuter H-1B and it is built a lot stronger then an R-22 and does not use belt to drive the main or tail rotors . The Commuter is what the CHR Safari evolved from. comparing a Gyroplane or Experimantal helicopter to a Certified machine is apples to oranges, A Gyroplane or Experimental helicopter will never be flown for hire. Safety of the Gyroplane depends Mostly on the machines lay out and on proper training. personally I feel safer in a Gyroplane then I do an R-22. Edited March 12, 2010 by Dreamin of a Commuter 2B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67november Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 do you have a break down of the Models? is it mostly the R-22 or the R-44? I have never taken the stick in the Robbie,but I have hated that stupid T bar cyclic from the beginning. I just don't think I could ever get use to that. Your Right 47 crashs don't sound to safe. Hi T I know what you mean about the T-Bar cyclic, I've never been a fan of that even as my friend Ironranger has one and I've flown in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotowing Posted March 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 (edited) Well R-22 may have a place but I think Hasbro has that market sowed up. I checked years ago about some flying in one thinking maybe nothing will happen!! Found out I weighed too much, my grand- daughted that is 3 has toys that will carry more than a R-22, so if you have to step up tp a R-44 to be able to fly, now how cheap are things? Fly safe or fly cheap, YOUR LIFE!! Edited March 13, 2010 by rotowing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R22139RJ Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 (edited) IF the OP would have done more research and considered the larger view, he would have a different opinion about the Robinson. Unfortunately, people take what they hear as fact and lack the effort or desire to find the real information. Statistics don't lie nor can they be subjective. The 44 had 1 fatal crash in a 10 year period due to mechanical errors. Rotowing, either you're being a moron about this topic or you need to troll harder. Edited March 13, 2010 by R22139RJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotowing Posted March 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Think if you read the NTSB reports 99% of all accidents are listed as pilot era , so that 1 death counts for what? Low rotor RPM. mast bumping--ect. pilot era! These things are not as likely in other choppers, Dont get me wrong they do happen but more often in the Robbies because of blade size! Don't ever my self remember reading about blade seperation in the 269 series . Fly safe or fly cheap, YOUR LIFE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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