...

[palmfish]

I enlisted in the Army to be a radar repairman and learn a trade. I never fixed a single radar, but 4 years later, I was a helicopter pilot.

 

I say go for it.

[palmfish]

Oh yeah, flight hours.

 

Very tough to say (as others have already explained). However, as a rough estimate, I'd say Non-deployed, you'll probably fly between 100-300 hours/year. Deployed, maybe double that.

 

And for every hour you fly, figure 3 hours of pre and post mission briefings, signing out equipment, mission planning, tracking down an approval authority to let you fly, pre-flight inspection, AAR, etc. And you'll probably also be kept busy with other duties like mess officer, ALSE officer, pubs officer, asst. safety officer, etc. And don't forget to tuck in your shirt, put on your reflective belt, and complete a three page risk assessment before you go out for a jog...

 

Seriously, like someone already stated above, the Army has a way of sapping every last ounce of fun out of aviation. But if you do manage to complete 8 years, you should have enough experience to land a job earning half of what you were making in the Army.

 

Best of luck to you!

[BillyBob]

Max,

 

Idaho is trying to help you by recalibrating your expectations. Sorry you see it as intrusive, but he (like others here who have been there/done that) have seen the negative effects what is a perceived imbalance between your expectations and reality.

[BillyBob]

Dear 26-year-old General heloidaho,

 

 

I didn't post this question asking what you or anyone else thought about my moral values pertaining to why I wanted to join the military, or for you to tell me why I should or shouldn't join. I posted it because I wanted info about the amount of hours a WO gets per year in the Army. So if you don't know, keep your thoughts to yourself. I don't need some 26 year old rat turd telling me why I should or shouldn't join the Army or what my "primary source of motivation" is.

 

 

 

WOW!!! I missed this gem. So much material...

 

I feel better now, you will self eliminate yourself some where through out the process.

 

I would say 'Good Luck', but it would be insincere.

 

My advice, go to kiowapilots.com, ask these same questions, and bring the same 'tude. hehehe ENJOY!

[RagMan]

It gets as simple as this. In an 8 year term of being a warrant, you "might" accumulate 2,000 hrs. That is factoring in if you do a couple deployments. After 8 years if you pick up an instructor pilot position within your unit, you will start seeing an increase in flight hours per year. In order to get a good amount of experience to leave the military and get a good job, you are looking at roughly 10 years of flying in the military to achieve enough hours.

 

And by the way, if you already don't like somebody telling you how it is or how its going to be, then you definitely won't enjoy the military. That is all the military is. Do what they say, and don't ask questions. Even if you ask questions, it still won't matter and you'll still end up doing what they say.

 

I have also been there and done that. I know how military aviation works. I was a crew chief for nearly 5 years. Deployments to both Iraq and Afghanistan. These are the people telling you what its like, and how its going to be. Either take that with a grain of salt, or don't bother asking questions.

[Rob Lyman]

Idaho, Ragman & Billy Bob all have a good point. If you come on a forum and ask about flight hours in the way you did, don't be surprised when people see you for what you are.

 

Flying is important. So is doing your job well. So is getting along with your fellow soldiers/coworkers. For the OP, I would suggest trying harder to mask your selfish agenda. The Army already has the "coin operated" and "flight hour operated" personalities that rear their ugly heads.If a warrant officer board sees you coming, you'll be left wondering why, with all of your great qualifications, you never got a phone call back.

 

The flight-hour answer for those in the FL guard is "it depends". I am averaging about 200 hrs a year stateside. I am a maintenance pilot, so some of my hours are earned the hard way. Some of our other full time warrants with less demanding jobs (ALSE, TACOPS, etc..) get the same hours. Some get far less (like 100 hr a year). As a reference, I used all 72 of my AFTPs by July of this year. Others still have 50 or more left.

[SBuzzkill]

I'd like to hijack this threat a bit and maybe take it a new direction.

 

What sort of stateside flying are you guys doing? I'm having a tough time deciding which aircraft I want to select because I really don't know what sort of flying each community is doing. Not really concerned about time building... Gracias

Edited August 16, 2010 by SBuzzkill

[macatstarr]

Max,

 

I would still encourage you to consider the military, no more bashing you. The military will realign you & and fix any shortcoming you might have. Hell, everyone has them, all the ambition & ideals about how their career will turn out. Like any organization it might be tough, but well worth the effort. Remember when joining the service... it’s exactly that; SERVICE!! The army is not there to provide you with flight hours, you’re there for the service of the organization, however they see fit. If you get this holy grail of flight hours then good for you, I guess you’ll get the offshore or ems job that pays 50 to 100k a yr. If that’s what you’re looking for & perceive happiness to be. But like most of the ideas of a young person, those perceptions are probably misguided too. Anyway, please consider the opportunity the Army presents, I can’t think of a better opportunity to gain a lifetime of experience and character in such a short time.

[Guest Maximinious]

...

Edited July 30, 2011 by Maximinious

[Trans Lift]

Dear Trans Lift (a.k.a another 25 year old wanna-be-pilot member of the peanut gallery with some golden words of wisdom from your extensive experience as a helicopter pilot),

 

Ha ha haha, thats funny. Not a wannabe at all, how did you come to that conclusion from my comment? Been working as a pilot for nearly three years now. I would say that have enough experience to comment. You keep mentioning age, is hard for you to comprehend that there are guys out there that are younger than you with more experience than you??

 

I can act professional as long as people respect me.

 

Ahh, ok!

 

Have you ever worked as a pilot Tranny?? If so, where do you work?

 

Yep, for nearly three years now. Work as an ag/utility pilot now.

 

I am typing in words on a forum, you don't know me as a person. You don't know how I think and feel. You don't know what I have been through or the accomplishments I have made as a pilot. Who are you to judge me or tell me how I should think or feel? Who are you to tell me that I won't get to far based on something that I typed into a forum?

 

True, never said I did. Maybe you should phrase you words differently then to stop people from perceiving you as an arrogant prick. Never judged anything, read my comment again, I merely said I hoped that you didn't resort to name calling.

 

Do yourself a favor and keep your opinion to yourself, cause I never asked for it.

 

Ahh, nope. Stay off a forum if you don't want opinions.

 

I asked Warrant Officers how many hours they get per year, not some young pissant like yourself.

 

Young, I guess I am. Must mean that I know nothing. How could I possibly know how many hours a warrant officer may fly in a year?? I mean, there is no possibility that I have ever talked to a warrant officer on the matter before.

 

I asked a simple question about HOURS....not about your thoughts on joining the military or anything else for that matter.

 

I was agreeing with you actually but I guess you can shove that up your arse now, eh?

 

Furthermore, I haven't "met" anyone here on a professional level. I wouldn't hire someone I met on a forum, would you Tranny?

 

Probably because no-one would want to. Lonely, are you? If they were the right person for the job why not???

 

I wouldn't even be friends with someone I met on an internet forum period!

 

Ahh, ok. Still lonely?

 

So hide behind your keys and type what ever you want about me and the damage I am causing to my internet-based helicopter reputation because i don't really give a sh*t.

 

 

No hiding here lad. I didn't even have a go at you the last time. You brought it all on yourself. I couldn't care a less either. I'm sure you are a lovely person out in the real world. All the best now.

 

P.S. I hope the army beats the attitude out of you, ha ha hah ah ah ah ah aha

[Guest Maximinious]

...

Edited July 30, 2011 by Maximinious

[Guest Maximinious]

.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Maximinious

[SBuzzkill]

From the way you're acting on here I can't imagine you will fit in very well in the Army Aviation community. You are calling lots of people out on their age and inexperience, what is your background? Are you a working pilot?

Edited August 18, 2010 by SBuzzkill

[Trans Lift]

Trans-vestite, you have been a fuel boy for nearly three years now and its pretty obvious that the fumes have gotten the best of you. I am sure there are younger guys with a lot more experience and talent then I will ever be capable of, but you're definately not one of them. Too bad you are afraid to say where you work, I would love to call up your boss and let him know that his fuel-b*tch is on vertical reference talking sh*t to real pilots. I would love to see you talk to me like this in person. I bet you come here to pick up dates on verticalreference.com, you should know this is a helicopter website, not for dating men.

 

Ooh that was a good name, you are real clever. I would talk to you like this in person and then bitch slap upside the head too. Not afraid to say where I work, just don't think it is worth giving the name of the company to a maggot like you. My boss would have no problem telling you where to go either. I'm really good at fueling helicopters so he wouldn't want to lose me. I wasn't talking to sh*t to a real pilot, just you. I have had a few dates now, going really well too, are you interested?? You could be my bitch.....but then I'm not interested in sloppy seconds!

[heloidaho]

SBuzzkill, I have to respectfully disagree. It is obvious from this whole conversation and discussion that Maximinious is a consummate and selfless professional that would add value to any community he joined. I can only hope that when I reach the wise age of 30 and earn my ratings that I become half the man that he is.

[Trans Lift]

Me too, I'm still 5 years away from 30. By then I should be a fantastic human being. He is already half the man you are Mr. Idaho!

[EC120AV8R]

Wow, it started out as such a simple question (solicitation of input), then old Max went sideways, when he got input. Perhaps he should write a book on how to win friends and influence people. By the way, Max, before you flame me for commenting on your lack of maturity and total lack of respect for what you perceived as a slight by others who only provided input at your prompting; yes, I am a working pilot, and yes I am a whole lot older than 25, so perhaps my opinion counts for something.

[palmfish]

[Eggbeater]

Flame war flame war! This turned into a pissing match very quickly! Max, you seem to bring the best out in people. Take it from someone without a dog in this fight, your attitude fairly screams "chip on the shoulder" through the screen.

[edspilot]

All & Especially Max:

 

Remember, nothing is really ever gone from the internet. See this link:

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/7951269/Young-will-have-to-change-names-to-escape-cyber-past-warns-Googles-Eric-Schmidt.html

 

 

This industry is very small and from one that has used paid services to query persons I was interviewing for positions, I can tell you that long after sites close and posts & articles are removed the comments live on. There are site that make a living storing everything on the internet and they charge fees to anyone wishing to "go back in time" to search the past. The government and many companies use such sites to really find out about a person. Do not think that one can hide behind a username or other title.

 

Integrity: Doing the right thing, at the right time, for the right reason, when "nobody" is watching.

 

Final note: If you ever have to take a polygragh for a position, one common question is to verify this question. Have you provided "all" of your previously used usernames and fourm sign-ons in the paperwork you have submitted? Believe me the paperwork will ask this at least in the form of "other names used" and now that does not only mean formal but now means internet communications.......

 

Be safe,

 

edspilot

[SBuzzkill]

Yep. Lots of very well connected people read these forums.

[Guest Stearmann4]

I've watched this thread with interest and finally decided to add my .02. I was on active duty as an enlisted guy for 12 years while flying part time, and having paid all my civilian fixed-wing ratings on my own dime.

 

I was accepted to WOFT in 2001 and graduated as an Army Aviator in Oct 2003. I've accumulated about 1,900 hrs turbine helicopter time in that period. While those are barely acceptable numbers by civilian insurance standards, that value doesn't begin to describe the quality of the time.

 

I've never flown an hour of piston helicopter (except for the Bell 47G I rented out of curiosity and an R-44 for my ATP)In the last 7 years I've gotten rated in the UH-1, UH-60, CH-47D, MH-47E, MH-47G, and C-12 (King Air 200). In addition, I'm an Instructor Pilot, Maintenennce Test Pilot, and Aviation Safety Officer. Not very exciting, but easily translatable to skills in the civilian world. My military equivelency also added a commercial helicopter, helicopter CFI, CFII, and commercial multi-engine, instrument to my license.

The Army also just footed the bill ($4,500) for my helo ATP in an R-44 under the trial AVOTEC program. Lastly, when I have time my college courses are absolutely free.

 

So, that 1,800 hours doesn't really equate to the same time flying traffic patterns as a R-22 CFI. I'll be the first to admit, I've been mentored and shown plenty by civilian pilots that I wouldn't/couldn't have learned in the Army. However, long line, etc in a single engine turbine ship wasn't a difficult transition from a 54,000lb, twin turbine, glasss panel helicopter, flying in formation, low level on NVGs and talking on 5 radios. My biggest learning curve was flying single pilot and all the cockpit management involved without another set of hands.

 

My experiences and qualifications didn't cost me a penny, I don't owe anyone a dime, and currently making over 6 figures. However the Army most definitely gets paid in exchange for time served. I'm not a recruiter, and usually the first one to give the reality check that is the Army, but if you're looking at sacrifice vs benefit, it may be your answer.

 

Don't get me wrong, the Army gets it's pound of flesh and at the end of your committment, you'll be certain the Army didn't get shorted. But, If I were a relatively new pilot starting out, it's hard to deny the benefits to be had rather than staring 75-100K of debt in the face at the end of your 6 years of CFIing while still looking to "break in to" the industry.

 

If you're wondering how those skills and time translate; I'm currently flying a UH-1, MD-500C, and even a AH-1 part time for a very reputable company in the NW, so the type of experience has seem to paid dividends over the 2,500 hr CFIs that interviewed with me.

 

I had every intent to retire last year and received offers of employment from 4 solid helicopter operators. In the end, all took me away from home more than I currently am, and for about a 30-50% pay cut. At least for us, this remains the best paying helicopter job in the country regardless of monthly hours flown. Oh yeah, the military is recession proof, and every 2 years you get a substantial pay raise regardless of whether you get promoted or not.

 

Some pilots fly more during their Army career than others. The amount of time you acrue depends largely on your work ethic. I see motivated, young PCs and IPs routinely fly 500-600 hrs a year because they make sure they're always available and they like to fly. Conversely, I've seen other guys barely scrape by with monthly minimums becaue they valued their personal time more than professional development. You have to remember that unlike a civilian company, you still get paid the same whether you fly 100 or 1,000 hrs a year. That fact sometimes brings out the worst character traits in some pilots. Pull that at a civilian company and you'll be shown the door...quickly.

 

Other folks far more qualified than I have described in detail the personal and professional committments and sacrifices involved with even one term in the Army. It's no secret, you just have to decide if it's for you.

 

Sorry for the long winded response,

 

Mike-

[FLHooker]

wow. Don't sign in for a bit, and come back to some fun. The WOLF would have some fun here.

[klas]

....Final note: If you ever have to take a polygragh for a position, one common question is to verify this question. Have you provided "all" of your previously used usernames and fourm sign-ons in the paperwork you have submitted? Believe me the paperwork will ask this at least in the form of "other names used" and now that does not only mean formal but now means internet communications.......

 

Be safe,

 

edspilot

 

Is that even legal? I remember a yr or two ago this becoming a national news item (see this article: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/career/?p=922) when people questioned the legality of asking that question, but don't know what happened.

 

[EDIT: Apparently, the City in the link above dropped its question of on-line identities after people objected:

http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/06/20/0146252/Bozeman-MT-Drops-Password-Info-Requirement?from=rss]

Edited August 30, 2010 by klas

[edspilot]

Is that even legal? I remember a yr or two ago this becoming a national news item (see this article when people questioned the legality of asking that question, but don't know what happened.

 

Apparently, the City in the link above dropped its question of on-line identities after people objected

 

 

 

Yes, it is legal. Why, because if you are going to be employed by the military and or maybe federal law nforcement agency and that includes the rescue ones, you have to have a "security clearance." The security clearance is required for many state and local departments because you may be assigned to a task force with the feds and therefore be exposed to classified information.

 

The "clearance" requirements does not run on the poll of public opinion and does not usually ever change to be less, only gets more restrictive, especially in this state of affairs.

 

The OP was asking about the military and I would bet you he will be required to have a security clearance if he goes in and depending on where he is assigned may have to take a polygraph at some point in his career.

 

Even businesses do it, why because they can and they feel you have the "right" to not apply if you wish, that will not stop them from having it as a requirement. They have a right to ask and you have the right not to apply, It is that simple. If you do not apply, there are several hundreds standing in line behind you.

 

My last post was one to let everybody know to be very careful about really "going off" on anybody on the internet, because it can and will follow you.

 

Just one opinion!

 

edspilot