A Question for Newbies

[Azhigher]

Maverick Helicopters does offer excellent benefits: medical, dental, life insurance, 401K and more... Plus they are an excellent company to work for, however they aren't your normal tour operator, which is why they are so successful...

 

Yeah, but no pension. Which is exactly what I said.

 

And I have no doubt they are a great company =)

[CharyouTree]

Alright, I forgot one thing,...sh*t loads of money to hand-deliver every resume!

 

With the amount of money you've already invested into getting the qualifications, you don't think another $200 to take a road trip for a promising job, to show you're really interested, and not just blanketing resumes is worth it?

 

Maybe go to one of them there events that has more than one prospective employer at it at once?

 

If you got a call back, would tell them you're not coming unless they paid for the trip? At what point does the risk vs reward start (or stop?) paying off for you, assuming you're already $50k + into it?

[helistar]

Yeah, but no pension. Which is exactly what I said.

 

fyi: 401k with company contributions is a pension/retirement plan that you do get to take with you to your next job. However you will need to be fully vested before the company matched funds are yours to keep and at most companies to become vested takes five years.

 

That's a lot better then leaving some other company or having some big corporation reorganize or close after five years leaving you with zero towards your retirement.

[r22butters]

With the amount of money you've already invested into getting the qualifications, you don't think another $200 to take a road trip for a promising job, to show you're really interested, and not just blanketing resumes is worth it?

 

Maybe go to one of them there events that has more than one prospective employer at it at once?

 

If you got a call back, would tell them you're not coming unless they paid for the trip? At what point does the risk vs reward start (or stop?) paying off for you, assuming you're already $50k + into it?

 

$200 for a road trip from one side of the country to the next?

 

And what exactly was I supposed to do with the jobs in India, or South America?

 

Traveling for an actual interview is one thing, (I've done that before), but hand-delivering a resume, just so I can "maybe" impress someone, just isn't possible (or practical)!

 

Just because someone has already spent 50k, doesn't mean they have anything left, and if you cannot find a job, money isn't exactly going to be flowing in!

 

By the way, the employers who attend those "events", generally won't even touch a guy with less than 1000hrs.

[Trans Lift]

Traveling for an actual interview is one thing, (I've done that before), but hand-delivering a resume, just so I can "maybe" impress someone, just isn't possible (or practical)!

 

I know one guy that traveled from Florida across the country and back, and half way across one more time. He landed a part-time gig for a few months and then ended up making a trip to another company and got a job that netted him nearly 1000 with 70-80 turbine hours. He was a J1 visa and got that time in just over a year.

He is just one example but I know of at least 5 guys last year that got jobs like that. I know money is tough, trust me, I am working as a pilot and it is still scarce but that is what you have to do today in this market. Why? Because if you don't that other guy will and get that job more often than not.

Butters, how many hours have you paid for out of pocket?

[r22butters]

Butters, how many hours have you paid for out of pocket?

 

At least 400, but that's over an eight year period, and most of it was back when I had a good job.

 

I've also heard of people doing the "gypsy" thing to try and find work, but it doesn't always work out, and at this point I just don't have it in me anymore.

[Azhigher]

fyi: 401k with company contributions is a pension/retirement plan that you do get to take with you to your next job. However you will need to be fully vested before the company matched funds are yours to keep and at most companies to become vested takes five years.

 

That's a lot better then leaving some other company or having some big corporation reorganize or close after five years leaving you with zero towards your retirement.

 

Let me clarify: Not many jobs still have a defined benefit plan (Pension) rather than a defined contribution plan (401k)

 

That's the original point I was trying to make. =)

[RkyMtnHI]

I know one guy that traveled from Florida across the country and back, and half way across one more time. He landed a part-time gig for a few months and then ended up making a trip to another company and got a job that netted him nearly 1000 with 70-80 turbine hours. He was a J1 visa and got that time in just over a year.

He is just one example but I know of at least 5 guys last year that got jobs like that. I know money is tough, trust me, I am working as a pilot and it is still scarce but that is what you have to do today in this market. Why? Because if you don't that other guy will and get that job more often than not.

Butters, how many hours have you paid for out of pocket?

 

 

This is a good post Trans LIft! I have been thinking about this lately as i know about two different scenarios and have talked about this many times.. if you are planning your career budget, which you should be of course if you are serious about this, SAVE some money for the face to face interviews. I know that is hard, but think about it, even $1000 out of a $60k total is not that much, it's three or four hours of flight time. Pass on some of the fun flights, get focused, and get a plan, and save some of that cash for AFTER you get your certs and it's time to look for a job, what if you don't get hired by the school you are training at.. (and keep in mind that you will also have to travel after your get your magic 1000 or 1500 (now days) and are moving past the teaching phase of your career). In the schools defense, the one you are currently training at might have every intention of hiring you when you get your certs, but things change that schools cannot control sometimes.. one incident can put them out of business, or an illness, or whatever, you have to plan for YOUR future and think about the good AND the bad just in case.

 

The two scenarios: I also know of a four or five guys that drove cross country and secured a lot of very cool flying.. and teaching jobs as well. I know of another CFI that went on a very expensive vacation instead of traveling to look for a job, at this point he is still unemployed and his prospects are fairly dismal, if he would have spent that vacation money on traveling to meet prospective employers he might have a job by now, or even more than one option. in fact, it's important to point out here, that many of my friends that secured a job lately had more than one choice and were able to pick the job that best fit their career plan. It's all about choices, i have said it before, you are to be commended for making it to CFI, but you are not there yet.. that is really just the beginning and you must look at it that way if you want to move on in this industry, especially now.

 

One of the hardest things for me over the past couple of years has been not being able to help everyone that i met or spoke with. I have some really good resumes in my file, and met some amazing folks along the way, but you just cannot know who they are until you spend time with them. Some that even after speaking with them on the phone and in person i really wanted to hire them, but, until you get to know them better it's very difficult to take that risk. i expect you are thinking that it's about me making the wrong choice and ending up with a weak/bad team member, but there is way more to it than that, i have to know that making a move across the country, or planet, is the best thing for the candidate AND their families as well.. what if they move and it doesn't work out, then i am somewhat responsible for that. i have seen too many folks here locally fall out of the industry and lose their dreams because they made the wrong choice.. DO YOUR RESEARCH, file a flight plan, and stay focused on the prize..

 

sincerely,

 

dp

[Rogue]

Good words dp good words.

[helistar]

I also agree with dp.

 

I'll add...

To be successful in this industry one must be diverse as well as flexible to the constantly changing winds of the market.

[SBuzzkill]

$200 for a road trip from one side of the country to the next?

 

And what exactly was I supposed to do with the jobs in India, or South America?

 

Traveling for an actual interview is one thing, (I've done that before), but hand-delivering a resume, just so I can "maybe" impress someone, just isn't possible (or practical)!

 

Just because someone has already spent 50k, doesn't mean they have anything left, and if you cannot find a job, money isn't exactly going to be flowing in!

 

By the way, the employers who attend those "events", generally won't even touch a guy with less than 1000hrs.

 

Dude we need to trade screen names. Seriously.

Edited February 17, 2011 by SBuzzkill

[palmfish]

Let me clarify: Not many jobs still have a defined benefit plan (Pension) rather than a defined contribution plan (401k)

 

That's the original point I was trying to make. =)

 

Yes, and that's true of ALL industries, not just commercial RW aviation. The salary and benefits offered to commercial helicopter pilots are just as good as those offered to professionals in other industries.

 

That's the original point I was trying to make.

[Spike]

Since the Wright Brothers first flight, people have been dreaming about working in aviation. Not too long ago, people would hang around airports just on an off chance they’d find work in the aviation business. Not so much anymore. Working in aviation has never been, nor will ever be easy especially in our little slice of heaven (the helicopter industry).

 

Having a plan beyond certification should go without saying. So are face-to-face meet-n-greets with potential employers. If you aren’t willing or capable (for whatever reason) to attend a face-to-face meeting, then your chances of employment are drastically reduced. Why? Simply because of the amount of people who are willing to make the sacrifice and travel for that 30 minutes of face time. Making sacrifices in this business is a necessity. If you are not willing to sacrifice, then success will be fleeting. Or better said, show me a helicopter pilot who didn’t make sacrifices to advance their career and I’ll show you an unemployed helicopter pilot. Just ask any pro pilot who’s been around for a while.

 

This business is full of one-step-forward-two-steps-backward circumstances. Spend thousands of dollars to graduate as a CFII only to be unemployed. Finally get a job as a CFI only to eat Top-Roman every night. Finally get that first turbine gig only to be paid less than when you were working as a CFI. Finally start being productive as a turbine driver only to be laid off when the contract ran out. Unemployed again…. This is the way the industry works. If you can’t maneuver through it, then steer clear. The real sacrifice comes about by changing your entire life to revolve around building industry experience along with helicopter PIC flight time and nothing more. And, this should be thought of as a never ending process. Currently, I’m in my 19th year in the business and the first thing I do after prefight is update my resume……….

[Azhigher]

Yes, and that's true of ALL industries, not just commercial RW aviation. The salary and benefits offered to commercial helicopter pilots are just as good as those offered to professionals in other industries.

 

That's the original point I was trying to make.

 

Well then we agree =)

 

And very well said Spike

Edited February 17, 2011 by Azhigher

[roundwing]

I am getting my helicopter license because I have always wanted too and I can afford it.

 

I have no intention of doing anything more than the private add-on.

 

It is strictly for fun and I am having a blast. To me this is really what flying is all about.

 

I like having to fly the machine all the time.

 

Flying the heavy metal is a good job but can be boring letting George do all of the flying.

 

I still do the take off and landings manually though.

 

If I had to do it again I would go helicopter.

 

Best of luck to all of you pursuing a career in helicopters

[Goldy]

I’m in my 19th year in the business and the first thing I do after prefight is update my resume……….

 

Master on, fuel boost pumps on, caution CB in, rotor brake off, resume updated?

Now thats funny!

[mattspin]

Sacrifices for the industry well said! Can i put on my resume that i am an expert at sactifices thanks to the military! lol.

[edspilot]

To all of you low time and/or out of work helicopters pilots out there:

 

Here is my offer, small but none the less an offer from me to you:

 

If you wish to make a "road trip" for your job hunting/interviewing and you are close to or wish to come through central West Virginia, you are welcome to spend a few nights here. If you wish to base a few days out of here, at least you will not have to worry about having to pay for housing and meals while you are here.

 

We can even go flying to get you back into the air some, if you have the time to spend.

 

If all you want or need to do is just spend the night and head on, you are welcome.

 

I have plenty of room. You will have your own privacy, internet, no smoking allowed and we are located in the beautiful mountains.

 

I know it is not on the "beaten path" to everywhere but it is here and available to you, for the asking.

 

Also, I challenge others out there to make any similar offer of assistance that you feel might help out an in need struggling out of work pilot. Heck, maybe we could help a few pilots travel across the country with little or no out-of-pocket living expenses and it would not cost any of us much.

 

My Mother used to say; "Give until it feels good, then you know you have given enough."

 

Keep your chin up and it will get better.

 

 

My best,

 

edspilot

[RkyMtnHI]

To all of you low time and/or out of work helicopters pilots out there:

 

Here is my offer, small but none the less an offer from me to you:

 

If you wish to make a "road trip" for your job hunting/interviewing and you are close to or wish to come through central West Virginia, you are welcome to spend a few nights here. If you wish to base a few days out of here, at least you will not have to worry about having to pay for housing and meals while you are here.

 

AMAZING offer Dean, i applaud you and i'm in! Seriously, on both counts; I too will make the same offer and encourage others to do the same.

 

First; I cannot tell you how many cool, influential folks have stayed with us, just to name a few; Lyn, Goldy, Mike Franz, Dexter... and others. Some were just passing thru looking for jobs and ended up working at another operation and became terrific industry contacts. Some were here for business in Denver and just wanted to network... this is a great idea Dean, and a good opportunity to give back and receive at the same time (karma).

 

Second; I will take YOU up on a place to stay and come visit.. for those of you that don't know it, Dean is an amazing guy with an amazing career in Aviation.. someone that would be very good to know in all ways.

 

aloha,

 

dp

[Rogue]

edspilot - YOU ROCK

[Trans Lift]

Good on you guys. If I had the space I would welcome the same. Hopefully in our next place. I would be well up for doing that too.

[rjl2001]

It's nice to see this topic that started with a lot of negativity, take a turn to the positive. Thanks for the offers dp and edspilot. When the time comes I may take you guys up on that, I'm all about meeting new people/operators in this industry.

 

As far as why I chose to fly helicopters, well that was one of the easiest decisions I've ever made. I always wanted to fly since I was a kid, and that feeling never went away. I grew up near Air Force bases, so every time I saw a plane flying over I knew that's what I wanted to do. Then the helicopter thing probably got into my head from watching all the Apaches and Blackhawks on the news everyday during Desert Storm. Fast forward and I found out I'll never fly in the military (eyesight), but that left civilian flying open. I had enlisted in the military though and got to fly with our aircrews quite a bit, and that was some of the most fun I had while I was in. When I was stationed in Chesapeake, VA I found a local helicopter school, and decided to take an intro flight with them in an R22. That was all it took and I was sold. After that I started trying to figure out how to make it happen and financially it didn't look like it would work. Well fast forward again and I found out about the Post 9/11 GI Bill, to me it was like winning the lottery.

 

And just to reiterate the importance of networking. I had worked at airport FBO's for a couple years in High School and after I got out of the military. I've seen plenty of pilots pickup jobs just by meeting people and hanging out at the airport. A CFI started making friends with a businessman who had a twin Cessna based on the field, he got that job when his old pilot moved on. I've even seen guys flying King Air's or Lear's asking around and eventually finding someone on the field who needed a pilot for their Citation. A lot of that comes down to being in the right place at the right time, but if those guys wouldn't have been there on their days off meeting people and making friends then it surely wouldn't have happened.

[Rogue]

Roger that, if you want to make contacts in the aviation industry then hangin out at airports is a must, I think I may have heard that somewhere before......

Edited February 21, 2011 by Rogue

[r22butters]

Roger that, if you want to make contacts in the aviation industry then hangin out at airports is a must, I think I may have heard that somewhere before......

 

I've heard this many times, however, not being naturally skilled in the art of "bullshitting", I have to ask; How do you go about it?

 

Do you follow every pilot who's going out to pre-flight? Do you walk into a hanger, and ask to talk to a pilot? What do you talk about? Beyond just saying, "Hi, I'm Butters...please, please, please, hire me!", I don't have a clue how to begin the conversation?(which I guess is why I don't have a girlfriend )

 

Another thing is that, I feel like I would be bothering them when approaching them at work?

[Rogue]

Thats a tough answer to give there friend. I'm not the most eloquent person either, nor do I have the gift of gab.

 

I would say though that most conversations started with a purpose - for example "I heard you give flight lessons","I was told by so and so that you have a Piper Cub, I've always wanted to learn more about those"

 

Some conversations just happened while hanging out at the FBO, just sitting in the pilot lounge "How are you doing today?","Where ya'll flying in from?" or even better yet "How's the flying today?"

 

No I don't follow people around or bother them while they are busy, but if I'm sitting in the FBO and the medevac chopper comes in for fuel then naturally I have to say something to the pilot ! "Cool bird, how you like the Eurocopter","How did you become an EMS pilot?"