They Lied, No jobs for New Pilots

[Chris Patrick]

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not upset about what has happened to me and just about everyone else because of the economy, such is life. I am merely trying to shed light on many young pilots careers... or lack of career due to the lies we were fed and the over lending for flight training to young people from financial institutions.

I don't know about any of the rest of you and maybe I'm just alone in this thought, but I was told that the need for Helicopter pilots was great and it was a wide open job market. So without hesitation I did everything in my power to get into flight school, because it has always been such a passion of mine! What I wasn't told unfortunately is that their was a shortage of "experienced" (1000 hours of more)pilots and that is all any company wanted to hire, with good reasoning. I have had my Helicopter CFII for 3 years now which I procured through a Professional Pilot Program at an accredited Flight School. I haven't climbed into a single cockpit since the day I took my final Check Ride for my CFII. My flight school closed it's doors the week after I finished my program. I received my flight training through a loan, a very sizable loan as many of you out there I'm sure have done as well. I, like many pilots out there are now struggling just to get by in our day to day lives financially. I am still working the same job (which pays practically nothing) as I did while attending flight school, but now with a $60,000 flight school bill to pay off. I have sent in close to 100 resumes to flight schools and flight employers all over the country, but do to my low hour time and experience level I haven't been considered for one. I have done everything in my power to come up with ideas to get into the aviation business, but to no avail. I have been hit with a flight school bill that no one could possibly be expected to afford without a reasonably high paying job.

What I am trying to get at here is that it is unfortunate for so many pilots out there to be in such a situation as I am. I can't afford to seek more flight training to build hours due to the cost of paying off my loans for my original training and I can't get hired by a company to make more money due to my low hour level. A rock and a hard place is where I have found myself and it seems to be getting very crowded with the amount of people being placed here beside me.

I wish there was a way that Flight Schools, Aviation Employers, Insurance Companies, Pilots could all figure out some way to help all those out there in desperate need of a break. It is just a real tough situation from one end to the other and in an industry as booming as aviation you would think that a pilot who went to school and received all licensing and certifications he/she needed that he/she would be able to find a job.

If you are a struggling pilot that also can't seem to get their career off the ground in aviation, please share your story.

[Goldy]

I am merely trying to shed light on many young pilots careers... or lack of career due to the lies we were fed and the over lending for flight training to young people from financial institutions.

I don't know about any of the rest of you and maybe I'm just alone in this thought, but I was told that the need for Helicopter pilots was great and it was a wide open job market.

 

First, welcome to VR. If you had posted just prior to starting lessons, you may have received a reality check. To be told it was a wide open job market is nothing but a lie. As you now know, there is a gap...usually between around 200 hours and somewhere over 1000 where you are more likely to land a paying job. That said, I meet many pilots in that range who are working in aviation. Not a single one of them got that job by submitting a resume.

 

Congratulations on getting your CFII. That is quite an accomplishment and not something that I am even bold enough to try out for !

 

 

So, without beating a dead horse here, this industry is really small and so relationships mean quite a bit. Stop sending out resumes and start meeting people. Heli Expo has come and gone, Vegas Expo put on by Lyn is still a ways out, so you have to start by walking in some operators doors, attending some free FAA or HAI safety events, get some business cards made up and start networking.

 

Operators do hire pilots in the 250-300 hour range for a variety of jobs. I see it every week, I talk to pilots as they move around and advance. It's amazing to me as I know a young woman who was in your exact shoes 3 years ago with 300 hours. It was even worse then, as there was a flood of low time CFI's when SSH collapsed, and she was one of them. She is now 24, she is now over 1000 hours of TURBINE time with around 2200 hours TT. She is in her perfect job, in her perfect part of the world (Hawaii).

 

One of our VR members I met 2 yrs ago when he had around 200 hours and he needed a way to build time in an R22. He kept at it and he just told me last night that he landed a full time gig flying an AS350B2 in Alaska.

 

It does happen, but it is not easy. My advice is to never buy another stamp, or fax another resume. Believe it or not, posting on VR was your first step in networking, you will no doubt need to take many more.

 

Good luck on your endeavor,

 

Goldy

[Azhigher]

No risk no reward. It is unfortunate that you're in that position, but it's a gamble trying to get into this industry. It's a shame that you were told what the flight school wanted you to hear, but at the same time before you spend $60k on anything you probably should have done a bit of research that might have clued you in to the risks.

 

As far as ideas to get into flying:

 

Military - granted you're already in heavy debt but it's a way to get turbine/twin time.

 

Ag - Get your CDL and try to start out driving and work your way into a ship

 

Police - Join up and try to work your way into a flight position

 

Maybe not exactly the career path you envisioned when you started flight school but if you're serious about making it into the air those are some options.

[helonorth]

I would second the ag business as a foot in the door. You will need the CDL (and a tanker endorsement won't hurt). It wasn't for me, but many pilots have gone this route rather than teach. You can actually eat while doing this, too! I don't know what part of the world you are in, but Terryjon and Scotts's Helicopters in Minnesota have given many a pilot their start. Expect 2 seasons before you see any real flight time. The money is very good once established.

[Chris Patrick]

I really appreciate the info and I will definitely look into the CDL stuff! I am in the Northwest and I know that there is a lot of AG stuff in Washington and parts of Oregon so it does sound like it is worth taking a look at.

[adam32]

 

Operators do hire pilots in the 250-300 hour range for a variety of jobs. I see it every week, I talk to pilots as they move around and advance. It's amazing to me as I know a young woman who was in your exact shoes 3 years ago with 300 hours. It was even worse then, as there was a flood of low time CFI's when SSH collapsed, and she was one of them. She is now 24, she is now over 1000 hours of TURBINE time with around 2200 hours TT. She is in her perfect job, in her perfect part of the world (Hawaii).

 

 

 

Hey, I know her!

[RagMan]

Close to 100 resumes and no job offer? You are doing something wrong then.

 

I'm not quite sure which technique you used for finding an instructor job. If you have been sending your resume in by email, thats probably the No. 1 reason why you haven't been picked up for a job. I have heard of companies here and there who prefer you send in your resume by email/mail/fax/etc. Go one step further and hand deliver it, but it would be best to call in ahead of time and request an interview as well as hand deliver your resume.

 

You can't just send in a resume by mail/email to a company 4 states away, or even across the U.S and expect to get hired. Be more pro-active. Take a few days off and go scout around to some of the flight schools. Call in ahead of time and schedule interviews in person and literally HAND them your resume. A school is more likely to hire an individual with whom they had the chance to meet and talk to than someone who just sends them a resume via the email.

[rick1128]

I would second the ag business as a foot in the door. You will need the CDL (and a tanker endorsement won't hurt). It wasn't for me, but many pilots have gone this route rather than teach. You can actually eat while doing this, too! I don't know what part of the world you are in, but Terryjon and Scotts's Helicopters in Minnesota have given many a pilot their start. Expect 2 seasons before you see any real flight time. The money is very good once established.

 

You will need at least a CDL Class B with a Hazmat endorsement. That endorsement is a pain to get initially as there is a criminal background check.

[Pohi]

Hey, I know her!

 

my thoughts exactly

[r22butters]

Well Chris, welcome to the club. I just hit the 5 year mark myself, and no hope in sight.

 

As for the AG way in. I was just rejected for one, (in a Robinson no less). They gave me the same reason everyone else has, "WE ONLY HIRE EXPERIENCED PILOTS"!

[DynamicallyUnstable]

I wouldn't agree that you were lied to. If you've had your CFII for 3 years, you started training over 4 years ago and there were jobs-a-plenty then for low timers. There seemed to be a pretty consistent flow of students to instructor to turbine etc. That was before the SSH shutdown and the economy tanked and I think that the economy tanking (no loans) and SSH (also made it more difficult to get financing) is what really eliminated a lot of those jobs. You can look at all the helicopter jobs from being an instructor to 1000+ hour jobs and see that there were a lot that were dumped when our economy crumbled.

Now, saying that, there are still jobs out there. Yes, it seems like there are a lot more for more experienced pilots (2k+) but the jobs still exist for low timers.

 

I agree 100% with RagMan and Goldy.

You have got to put ALL of your resources into shaking hands and meeting people face to face. Heli Expo, Vegas job fair/expo, and MOST importantly INTERVIEWS. As you have learned, faxing your resume will not get you a job about 99% of the time. I know it's not cheap to run around the country and meet with flight schools or ag operators but it's just about the only way. Think about how many resumes these people get each week and realize that the effort you're putting in as far as they are concerned is EXTREMELY minimal. A person that shows up at their door across from the country is putting in as much effort as they can...that shows.

 

One other thing...did you keep in touch with your flight instructor? If he (we'll say he for simplicity sake) is working in the industry still, he has more than likely paid his dues. Get a hold of him and see if there is anything that he could recommend. Maybe he did a great job at his job following instruction and could recommend you after you get do that 1000 hours?

NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK

 

Just make sure that once you do break into the industry, you do everything 100%. Make sure every boss you have feels that you were the best you could be. Go the extra mile in everything you do so that you can continue to build good relationships in the industry and move forward in your career.

 

Good luck man

[r22butters]

...you started training over 4 years ago and there were jobs-a-plenty then for low timers...

 

...That was before the SSH shutdown and the economy tanked...

 

...You can look at all the helicopter jobs from being an instructor to 1000+ hour jobs and see that there were a lot that were dumped when our economy crumbled...

 

Now, saying that, there are still jobs out there...but the jobs still exist for low timers.

 

Every time we unemployed bitch about how we can't find work, someone always tries to blame "current events", as if there was a magical time in the past when jobs were "a plenty".

 

Then I found this, on The Helicopter Page, I believe its dated around 2000?

 

6. Why did you give up flying?

The truth is that I did not give up flying, but I no longer pursued it as a career. I still have a private fixed wing and commercial rotary wing license, but I am only using them for recreational flying now. My issue was that I got out of the Army when a lot of other pilots were getting out, and frankly, jobs were really scarce. It took a long time for me to find a civil job, and it did not last long. The pay was not great, and I realized from day 1 that I was easily replaceable. They must have received 6 to 10 resumes a day, just to fill the position that I was in. Here I had 1800 hours of some pretty amazing flight time, numerous military decorations, combat time, and 5 safety awards, but I felt like I was just another new guy who had to start over from scratch. Since I changed careers, I make more money, spend more time with my family, and feel fortunate that it happened sooner than later.

 

Many jobs now require 2500 - 5000 hours of flight time. Most employers will not touch you with less than 5000 hours for insurance reasons. If you are lucky enough to get a job with as many hours as I had, you were going to have to pay your dues for quite a few more years before you had 5000 hours(It took me 6 years to get 1800 hours, and that is A LOT for a 6 year Army pilot), and could get a better job. Many times I had friends who told me to lie about my flight time just to get a job. While the employer may never have found out, I would have to have lived with the fact that I misrepresented myself to get the job. That is something I find very difficult to live with. Also, I would have to live with the fact that if they ever found out, I could lose my job and possibly my career. Once people find out that you lied about flight time, you usually gain a reputation you can not shake. Believe me when I tell you that you don't want that kind of reputation in this kind of business.

 

The Optimists always tell us of people they know who got hired, doing the same things we all do, (but for some reason they assume we're not), and quite frankly, I can't help but get extremely depressed whenever I hear them.

 

I'm a Realist, and so I can't help acknowledging the 500 or so guys that DON'T get the job, when that one does.

 

There has NEVER been "jobs-a-plenty" for "low-timers"!

 

They're right about one thing though, "NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK", because the ONLY way you're going to find a job, in this EXTREMELY OVER STOCKED INDUSTRY, is to meet the right person, at the right place, at the right time!

[Wally]

Network! Another way to say "be present in the industry, and be seen to be present in the industry when..." Being an real person capable of doing that next flight(s), job(s) instead of a name on a piece of paper is another name for being lucky. Knowing somebody in a potential employer/next hour towards employment is huge.

 

If you're broadcasting resumes, then your resume is 1 in a dozen, hundred, thousand, or however many that the hiring guy will see. What makes yours stand out? If you don't have an exceptional qualification of some sort, the resume is wasted.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Wally

[Falko]

And then you have low time guys that went to many helicopter industry meetings,events and network with hiring authorities and are STILL unemployed.

 

That shows you that even being super pro active won't guarantee landing your initial job.

Will this help you landing a job ? I am sure it will. Question is, for how long are you willing to wait, how much money do you want to add to your 65k loan to stay current, fly to helicopter events ? Lets say you dont have a rich wife or parents ?

You have to keep on paying rent, feed your family, pay bills ?

 

Lets say you get your first CFII job ($25-$30/hr). Gas prices and living expenses (food etc.) are going up, paying back your ~65k loan......etc...there isnt much left by the end of the month. Imagine you work/ fly 60hrs @30$ a months = $1800"before taxes and no benefits" that doesn't seem to be much, does it ?

 

 

 

 

 

Lets look at some facts:

 

1)Lots of unemployed CFII's on the market

 

2)Little to no openings at flight school due to low amount of students, caused by the banks that are not willing to hand out loans like they used to do before the economy went down hill couple years ago.

 

3)Hour requirements went up all over the place, CFIIs are stuck in Flight schools for longer so they their students have to wait even longer until a flight instructor moves on to his first "turbine job".

 

4) High time guys stay for longer due to their 401k

 

 

Colorado Heliops seems to be the only place where their CFII's get into the grand canyon tour business after a year or two of instruction. DP made good connections to make sure you will land your first turbine job.

 

But a school like his is an exception and lets hope many other flight schools will follow his philosophy.

 

Lots of schools tell you whatever it takes to get your money....they don't care if you get a job or not. The deal was money for training. I was one of you and believed what they told me and than i had to face reality after i finished training. But i fought my way through. But looking back, i wouldn't become a helicopter pilot again. Too much stress, uncertainty of my future, struggling financially, the whole life style by itself... no thanks. But since i landed a great job and after spending so much effort and $$$ to get where iam i would be stupid to quit here start a different career.

 

Lots of high time guys today went through training when everything was good and nobody had trouble working his way up the ladder. But things have chance.

Plus we have way more flight schools now then we had like 10+ years ago. so the market wasnt flooded with CFII like it is today.

 

Good luck to all of you out there.

 

Falko

[helipilotm]

Falko your post was spot on for the most part. The only thing that you said that I thought wasnt 100% was about DP. This isnt a personal attack on him as I dont know him. But you stated he was the only one who had CFI's moving on to the ditch. Thats not true.... he had two CFI's that knew him one worked for him for awhile that got the job. The other one got it not because of him. He also had a fe pilots interview and not get the job. Connections help but in the end its the person and resume.

[Falko]

Falko your post was spot on for the most part. The only thing that you said that I thought wasnt 100% was about DP. This isnt a personal attack on him as I dont know him. But you stated he was the only one who had CFI's moving on to the ditch. Thats not true.... he had two CFI's that knew him one worked for him for awhile that got the job. The other one got it not because of him. He also had a fe pilots interview and not get the job. Connections help but in the end its the person and resume.

 

He is the only fligh school owner that I personally know of, I didn't mean to generalize that statement.

 

I am sure there are other operators out there that do the same.

 

As far as getting a foot into the Helicopter industry, working on the ground for an Ag operators seems to be the most "bullet proven way" to get into the cockpit.

After a season or 2 on the ground they will put you in the cockpit plus you will be in the MX Hanger over the winter time which working side by side with the mechanics. That's going to increase your technical knowledge if HOW THINGS WORK big time.

It's by all means not the fastest way but its way cheaper and more income from the beginning on plus you will be thought by high time guys.

 

Some AG operator pay for your com ticket too. Like a Bond, I pay for your COM ticket, i will pay you 3000$ a month but you will be working here 95% of the year for the next 3 years start working at 3-4am until 10pm and between 0 or 5 % commission when you do get to fly/spray for me...... that type of deal.

 

Oh, did i mention its more beneficial to be NOT married or SINGLE during the first 3-4 years in this industry ?

 

 

Falko

[Pohi]

Every time we unemployed bitch about how we can't find work, someone always tries to blame "current events", as if there was a magical time in the past when jobs were "a plenty".

 

 

I am not trying to start any crap, but when I just started training and instructing, which was only a few years ago, it was much easier for people to find jobs. True, this was before the SSH crash, but it was there. I know two people who were around 1000 hours, and just for S&G went to Vegas and talked to the operators there. They had job offers before they came back from the weekend. At the same time the owner of my school was getting calls from the HR people at the gulf asking if he had any pilots who were qualified to go work down there.

 

The required hours for airplane pilots for jobs with RJ's was way less than 1000.

 

Is this how the situation is now? Certainly not, and I do not think it will return to that state any time soon, but once upon a time...

[Goldy]

I really appreciate the info and I will definitely look into the CDL stuff! I am in the Northwest and I know that there is a lot of AG stuff in Washington and parts of Oregon so it does sound like it is worth taking a look at.

 

Ahh, now we know where you are in the world! Look into who has the cherry drying contracts up there. The R44 is pretty popular for that.....I've known of some low time pilots that get a shot at it. Nothing like hovering over trees for 8 hours to make you want to be a helicopter pilot!

 

Same thing with freeze warnings down here near LA, they use ships just to keep moving the air around...however that is always at night in the freezing wind!

[RaymondKHessel]

 

What pisses me off most about my experience is that it wasn't an innocent mistake by the honest school owner. The still advertise, and tis is straight from their website, "100% of our graduates are employed!!!!!" An outright lie (with all 5 exclamation points), that they are still telling. Noobs beware/caveat emptor/there's a fool born every minute (it could be you).

Edited March 13, 2011 by RaymondKHessel

[RkyMtnHI]

Falko your post was spot on for the most part. The only thing that you said that I thought wasnt 100% was about DP. This isnt a personal attack on him as I dont know him. But you stated he was the only one who had CFI's moving on to the ditch. Thats not true.... he had two CFI's that knew him one worked for him for awhile that got the job. The other one got it not because of him. He also had a fe pilots interview and not get the job. Connections help but in the end its the person and resume.

 

 

Tanner, you are about half right. I am sure there are other folks trying to help their CFIs move on, at least i hope that is true. Three of my CFI friends got hired to fly the Grand Canyon, two that i highly recommended and one that i gave a good reference for but with the caveat that i didn't know him that well, i believe he would have gotten hired on his own because he is a motivated young man. Another person that i recommended this year was interviewed and as far as i know is still in the que.. It is also true that there have been others from this area that worked for other flight schools that listed me as a reference. That doesn't mean however that i recommended them, i can see how you would be confused about that. I take this very seriously and do not give recommendations unless they are earned.

 

It is true that you do not know me, and I would appreciate that, if in the future you post on my behalf, you are accurate instead of just going on hearsay. You can call me anytime at 303.466.4354 if you have any questions.

 

 

Also, while i was at the Expo job fair i had two separate gulf companies approach me and ask for pilots, and i have had two other companies just lately ask me the same.. and note that ALL of them have lots of resumes on their desks. I expect that they are asking other people that they trust the same question.. It is very difficult to select people from a resume.. i have said this before, it's too big of a risk on all levels to hire someone from just a resume or a short interview and were you in our position you would understand. In interviews people are on their best behavior and it's difficult to know who they really are. Tanner is right, it is the person and the resume, but it's also who you know and who knows you. If you want a job in this industry you have to get out there and network, get to know people, let them know that they can trust you and that you make good decisions.. they have to know that you WANT that job, that you are not just settling, and that you ARE who you seem to be.

 

The best way to network is to attend Lyn's HeliSuccess in Vegas, almost all of the same folks that were at the Expo Job fair are there and you get one-on-one time with them that is hard to get. They are all in one room and are there because they are looking for pilots.. why would any of us have been at the Expo job fair UNLESS we were looking for pilots? I will add too that it seemed that, although there were more attending the Expo this year, there were fewer pilots in line at the job fair.. just an observation.

 

 

dp

[Goldy]

dp- Seems like we proved our networking theory right just last week. You are looking for at least one pilot, you spent days meeting prospective pilots at the jobfair, we went to dinner together with some guys that were new pilots looking for work...hmmm, seems to me that one of those people may end up with a job...whereas the 100 resumes mailed or faxed in and sitting on your desk will probably still be sitting there a month from now.

 

When will they ever learn....

Edited March 14, 2011 by Goldy

[r22butters]

...it seemed that, although there were more attending the Expo this year, there were fewer pilots in line at the job fair.. just an observation.

 

I noticed that too. My guess is that, most of us unemployed pilots are "low-timers", and we've come to the realization that these "job fairs" are not for us,...unless of course you have an extra 20K lying around.

[DynamicallyUnstable]

Every time we unemployed bitch about how we can't find work, someone always tries to blame "current events", as if there was a magical time in the past when jobs were "a plenty".

 

There has NEVER been "jobs-a-plenty" for "low-timers"!

 

They're right about one thing though, "NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK", because the ONLY way you're going to find a job, in this EXTREMELY OVER STOCKED INDUSTRY, is to meet the right person, at the right place, at the right time!

Um, I'm not here to argue, just trying to toss out a little help because I truly feel for the "unemployed."

 

I seem to recall a time when the HR guy at PHI made a trip to Civic Helicopters and specifically told the CFI's there that if there were any CFI's at 1000/hrs PIC, he would hire them on the spot and would continue to hire any CFI from Civic when they got to 1000/hrs. He also said that he would hire ANY CFI from Civic that had 500 hours PIC as an SIC and transition them to PIC as soon as they hit 1000 hours there. I know a couple of guys that went for the 500/hr deal and a few that went for the 1000 hour deal. I also know that I saw plenty of CFI's out the door within a month of reaching 1000 hours. Like I said, I'm not here to argue but I SAW it and EXPERIENCED it myself so don't tell me there weren't plenty of jobs for low timers at one point.

 

Also, I am now personal friends with everyone that has hired me in the past and EVERY one of them has leaned heavily on who you know for hiring. Like someone said above, you HAVE to be able to separate your resume from the rest of the stack and if the hiring person can get at least a character reference from someone they know, that is HUGE. If you haven't done any networking this whole time, I don't know what to say about that other than it's never too late to start.

 

As far as what Falco said, yes it can be an expensive journey and no it doesn't guarantee you'll get hired but if you don't want to take the chance on it then you might as well give up the dream because just faxing resumes isn't going to do it. PERIOD

 

BTW, when I worked in AK, a friend of mine that was a CP up there told me that there was once a guy that flew up there to meet him and give him a resume in person. There was nothing special about his resume that separated it from the rest but because he showed up and said "I'll check back with you," and was back each day for the next 3 days, he hired him. Persistence pays.

 

I know it's not cheap to fly to AK or Vegas or Louisiana but it's also not cheap to spend 65k on flight training only to give up on it, and it just might pay off.

 

Butters, it doesn't cost 20k to attend every networking opportunity that you have, come on.

 

Again, good luck guys/girls.

[r22butters]

Butters, it doesn't cost 20k to attend every networking opportunity that you have, come on.

 

Actually, I was refering to the ONLY "job", at the job fair, that was offered to "low-time" pilots.

 

I do have one question regarding getting a CDL, to try and get into AG from the ground. Is is a class 'A', 'B', or 'C'?

[Pulling Pitch]

I've been in aviation for something over 40 years. Hiring goes up and down. This economy is the worst in 80 years. It will recover and slots will be available for pilots. Might be a few years. If it does not you will have other things to worry about.

 

Flight schools want your money. Flight schools dont care if a job exists for you. Flight Schools will tell you what you want to hear to get you to separate your money from your wallet.