Need New Heli Business Advice from the Pros

[ratat98]

Hello all,

I am playing with the idea of starting a small single-ship helicopter business. Most of the work would be agricultural (spraying, livestock control, predator control, etc.), but there are other opporitunitues with oilfield, etc. I'm looking for a reasonably priced R44 with decent time and this is my plan:

 

1. Get financing

2. Start LLC

3. Insurance

4. Helicopter

5. Additional Certifications (Part 133, 137, etc.)

6. Work my a## off.

 

Here's the advice part.

As most of you have already probably figured out by the above list, I'm new at this. I don't have a clue what I'm doing, and I need all the advice I can get. I'm reasonably low-time, 200-250 hours, and I want to know if this is even feasable.

So far I have a bank that "might" finance me, but only if it's at least 90% agricultural work. I think insurance is going to be even harder than finding a bank from the research I have done. I do, however, have a local ag chemical/spray company willing to fit me under their spraying liability insurance, and the guy even offered to buy a spray system as long as we make a contract for me to pay it off eventually. He already has plenty of acres lined up for me to spray for next season if this all works out. His brother has hinted that he "might" even put me under his 137 certificate until I get on my feet.

I understand there are a lot of "mights" but I plan on getting all this in writing eventually if I can get over a few hurdles. So everyone tell me if I'm crazy. Please. I know this doesn't sound like anything set in stone, but right now it's mostly in just the beginning stages, and that's why I'm here to ask for advice from those who know. The owner of the local helo school is excited about it, and thinks I should go for it, but that's about all the advice I have gotten out of him.

Also, let me know what else I need to be thinking about.

Thanks in advance!

-Patrick

[Whistlerpilot]

I think 250 hours is very low time to get into that type of flying without any one to mentor or supervise you. You are taking on a lot of risk both financial and actual.

[helipilotm]

I think 250 hours is very low time to get into that type of flying without any one to mentor or supervise you. You are taking on a lot of risk both financial and actual.

I couldn't add anything more except even if you do have a mentor, said mentor is gonna be needing to be with you at all times. You need allot more experience for that type of work. Starting a business is not a way to build time. You will make bad decisions based on outside pressures. JMHO

[Dragbrace]

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but the ag business is probeley the most demanding thing you will ever do in a helicopter; Not only do you have to be a highly trained and skilled pilot , you have to know the inside and out of the aerial application business before you start flying.,

 

Flying is the easy part..The liability and knowledge of what you are applying will be the secrete to your success.; .

 

If you have a mentor , work with him on the ground for a couple of years and learn the business from the inside out. Also build more time as the insurance companies won't touch you with a ten foot pole until you have at least a thousand hours unless you are under the direct supervision of a licensed aerial applicator with a good reputation, and that means he has to be onsite the whole time you are flying.

 

Again, I don't want to discourage you in your endeavor as the industry has a definite need for new blood. But as an old guy that has put in 46 years as an ag pilot, I have seen it all and feel that you should know what lies ahead before you make the leap.

 

If you are serious and need advice feel free to PM me and I will do my best to steer you in the right direction.

.................................. Dragbrace

 

 

 

..

[ratat98]

Thanks guys for the honest responses! You kinda confirmed my thoughts about the ag work, so no hard feelings! I do however still want to buy my own ship and do whatever commercial work I can find in the area. There is really nobody, where I live, that does anything helicopter, and I think it would be a decent opporitunity to get some experience while I work on my CFI. The school I go to is quite a ways away, so getting my CFI is going to take quite a while, and I would like to already have my own ship after I get my CFI because I doubt the school I'm going to would hire me since they are a pretty small operation. Any thoughts on this? I think this route would also be cheaper for me in the long run.

Thanks again!

[Nearly Retired]

Many people think that they can just buy a ship and then put it to work in their local area doing...you know, aerial photography, tour flights, whatever. That's what a certain female atheist pilot did in the hilariously (and appropriately) named town of Wickenburg, AZ. She quickly found out that there was not enough actual work to justify having an R-44 available to the unwashed public. So now she's moved up to the Great Northwest in search of fame and fortune...as...well, a beekeeper by day and cherry-dryer by summer.

 

You have to ask yourself one Big Question: "If there are no helicopters available for commercial work in my area, is there even a market for a helicopter?" Just buying a ship and hanging out a "for hire" shingle does not guarantee you'll ever see one dollar of revenue. It is probably something the wicca from Wickenburg should've thought of before deciding that the "real money" in helicopters was in cherry-drying.

 

I don't know who the first guy was to ever hook up a hopper to a Bell 47A and go spray some crops, but I'd be willing to bet that he had no mentor to teach him how to do it. And let's face it, it's not rocket surgery. People have been spraying with helicopters for over 60 years and there's plenty of information "out there" about how to do it. "Step1: Don't hit any wires." So although we don't normally recommend that you go out and teach yourself how to spray or do touchdown autos, etc., it's not totally impossible and you might not kill yourself. Or you might, who knows...hey, life is a crapshoot, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow. I know a guy who did just what you're planning and he hasn't gotten hit by a bus either (although he did it with a Hiller 12E).

 

So do your market research. And pray on it - at least, I would. Pray for guidance and the wisdom to see if what you're about to do is a huge mistake or not. Then trust in your "gut" feeling, which will be the response to your prayers. If your gut says, "go for it!" then, um, go for it. Ultimately, if you can hook up with an existing spray company and get your foot in the door that way, so much the better.

 

Good luck!

[Hobie]

Just wondering. If the local spray co has work avail and the guys brother is an ag applicator, why doesn't the brother buy another ship and hire/train you? Your proposed venture puts you in competition with him. Why is he willing to put you under his part 137 and be a competitor?

 

Either way, this certainly sounds temping. But the biggest cause of business failure is cash flow. Get the work lined up first. Those monthly loan payments, fuel bill, insurance, reserve funding, etc add up fast!

 

Another idea is to secure the spraying contracts and hire/buy ship or maybe even the brother to begin building a name for yourself.

[rick1128]

Besides what the above posters have mentioned, there is also the requirement to get a Part 137 certificate from the FAA. Depending on what FSDO you are in it could take up to 2 years or more to get one. Then there is the state requirements which include getting a pesticide applicator's license. Plus you will need a state business license.

 

If and when you do start this business, be sure to get at least enough aircraft to do the job for the area you are in. Too many new operators have started their business with an aircraft not or barely capable to do the job in the area they were in. And it has cost them.

 

Good luck.

[ratat98]

 

So do your market research. And pray on it - at least, I would. Pray for guidance and the wisdom to see if what you're about to do is a huge mistake or not. Then trust in your "gut" feeling, which will be the response to your prayers. If your gut says, "go for it!" then, um, go for it. Ultimately, if you can hook up with an existing spray company and get your foot in the door that way, so much the better.

 

Good luck!

 

Wow, that reply almost gave me chills! Thanks for the uplifting info!

Praying has been a big part of this thought process, and it's part of the reason that has me so confused about this process as well. I mean that in a good way, because so far everything has been a lot easier than I thought it would. The fact that, in the few months I have worked on this, I have a financial backer, I already have enough acreage lined up to spray that it would easily make my payments plus some for a year, and the fact that my helicopter "mentor" is excited for me to try this, have all astounded me at how easy it was to get over those "speedbumps".

And since I started this thread yesterday, I may have even gotten over the insurance speedbump too.

I know this is a crap shoot. There's an astounding 90% chance that it won't work, or I will go broke trying to make it work, but if that's the case, I have "backup plans" to lean on.

I don't really need this opporitunity, but I love flying helicopters, and I've known the agriculture business since before I could walk practically, so why not try and combine the two?

 

Edit: Let me restate that. I don't really need this opporitunity, I really really want this opporitunity!

[ratat98]

Just wondering. If the local spray co has work avail and the guys brother is an ag applicator, why doesn't the brother buy another ship and hire/train you? Your proposed venture puts you in competition with him. Why is he willing to put you under his part 137 and be a competitor?

He doesn't do much work in this area so I wouldn't really be competition, and his operation is with fixed-wing air tractors and thrush's he might be willing to let me work with his operation though. I hadn't thought about that yet.

I already have a state applicators license and the business license will be in the works once I get my ducks in a row and ultimately decide if it will be worth it or not.

[Hobie]

Business license is last in line. It is just the way other govnt folks to get their hands in your wallet, er a .... I mean .. proper permits, etc. ha.

 

Working with the fixed wing guys might be a great partnership. You will get the fields that are too tight for the planes.

 

I would take Dragbraces offer and pay him a visit. You are in a good situation. Good Luck! Keep us posted.

[rotornut67]

Good luck with everything and I sincerely hope you succeed...keep the prayers going! It has always worked for me. I will send some up for you as well!

[ratat98]

Thanks guys! I will keep moving forward with this project and keep you all updated!! I apprecciate the prayers and hopes!!!

[Azhigher]

I think you're perfectly prepared for what you propose. Don't even worry about all the "mights" just go for it.

[eagle5]

That's what a certain female atheist pilot did in the hilariously (and appropriately) named town of Wickenburg, AZ. She quickly found out that there was not enough actual work to justify having an R-44 available to the unwashed public.

 

I've been through there many times. Even the Duncan Donuts didn't make it a year!,...nor the Long John Silvers!

[Spike]

I see a bunch of red flags in this conversation but it would appear I’m in the minority. Therefore, I’ll bow out of the conversation and leave it up to the Helicopter Aerial Applicator/Helicopter Operator start-up subject matter experts here on VR…………….

[helonorth]

I see a bunch of red flags in this conversation but it would appear I’m in the minority. Therefore, I’ll bow out of the conversation and leave it up to the Helicopter Aerial Applicator/Helicopter Operator start-up subject matter experts here on VR…………….

 

Since you are neither, that sounds like a fine idea!

Edited August 20, 2013 by helonorth

[ratat98]

Well I've been doing some research, and it sounds like a R44 will be the way to go in this area if I decide to go the spray route. I would actually like to start with a R22 due to the lower overall cost, lower operating cost, and easier ability to do livestock and predator work if I wanted to, but I'm at 2200AGL where I'm sitting, and I doubt it would be easy to get a R22 off the ground with a spray system full of chemical and the 6000ft density altitude we get around here sometimes. Heck, in the 22 I trained in, I had issues getting it off the ground with my 130lb instructor sitting next to me.

 

I have located an Astro that's reasonably priced, low-time, and has new blades due to the 12-year limit, so that makes me feel a little better. I know the lack of hydraulics would wear my "astro" out after a day of flying, but I'll gladly put up with dragging feet and sore arms if it means my business might succeed.

 

I've also looked at a Hiller 12-E, and it would work out great in this area as well, but I haven't been able to locate a mechanic within 200 miles that would be willing to touch it, so maintenance would be an issue, whereas with the Robby, I have access to a mechanic and parts 50 miles away. My dream machine would be a bell 212, but yeah, that's not going to happen unless money starts growing on the tree sitting outside my window.

 

I'm still very unsure about a few things. I need to talk around to some customers we have and get more of a feel for everything that could be done around here. My helicopter mentor has been up in this area doing livestock work before, so that is an option worth looking into, and he would love it if he didn't have to come up here and do that.

 

I would love to hear some opinions on what everyone thinks about helicopter types and what I just said. Like I said before, I'll gladly take any advice I can get!

Thanks again!

[Hobie]

Spike: I hope you will weigh in here. I feel the OP is not fully grasping what Dragbrace and his experience is saying. Your words, Drags, and others may actually save this guys life. Business opportunity aside.

[AS350 pilot]

As much as I hate to do this, I'm going to have to chime in: DON'T DO IT. I don't mean to be rude, but when you have as little time as you do, this is an extremely dangerous idea. You need someone who you trust, who has lots of experience in different parts of the industry to mentor you.

 

I hope that when I'm an old experienced pilot that I will actively be a mentor. I had one and still do. He has made all the difference in my career, telling me when I was ready for something and when to relax and be patient. I just listen to everything he says because I respect him and he has never steered my wrong. Now we are co workers!

 

Be careful and fly safe out there.

[ratat98]

I agree. Everyone speak up. This has been a lot more positive than I have thought it would be.

[helonorth]

What words of wisdom are we going to tell him: he doesn't have enough experience and don't do it? As dragbrace said, the flying is the easy part, insurance will be the hard part. Most people on here know about as much about ag flying as I do: next to nothing. I did work on the truck for 2 whole weeks 12 years ago, though. I would absolutely say he should get together with an established operator. It is a dangerous business, no doubt. I haven't met too many that did it any length of time that hadn't crashed at least once.

[AS350 pilot]

You would probably enjoy being a pilot a lot more if you work for someone and get some flight time. Then you can decide if agriculture work is what you want to do or if maybe you really want to do tours or ENG. Who knows?!

 

It's such a great job being a pilot I would hate for you to have to worry about owning, dealing with all the small business red tape, maintenance, etc....Just be a pilot

[ratat98]

As much as I hate to do this, I'm going to have to chime in: DON'T DO IT. I don't mean to be rude, but when you have as little time as you do, this is an extremely dangerous idea. You need someone who you trust, who has lots of experience in different parts of the industry to mentor you.

 

I hope that when I'm an old experienced pilot that I will actively be a mentor. I had one and still do. He has made all the difference in my career, telling me when I was ready for something and when to relax and be patient. I just listen to everything he says because I respect him and he has never steered my wrong. Now we are co workers!

 

Be careful and fly safe out there.

I need more replies like this. I don't mean I want people to talk me out of it, but honestly, I really don't know what I'm getting into.

My mentor has been flying helis for 36 years, owns his own business, and 4 helicopters, and he has told me that he thinks my idea is a good idea.. I don't know if he thinks I'm a really good pilot, or if he just doesn't really know either. He has ag experience but that's not what he specializes in. Him and I actually just got back from a 1800nm ferry trip in a new R44 and we talked about it quite a bit, but I'm still unsure.

You can tell me not to do it, but I really want your advice. What should I do instead? How did you get started? etc.

Thanks!

[ratat98]

You would probably enjoy being a pilot a lot more if you work for someone and get some flight time. Then you can decide if agriculture work is what you want to do or if maybe you really want to do tours or ENG. Who knows?!

 

It's such a great job being a pilot I would hate for you to have to worry about owning, dealing with all the small business red tape, maintenance, etc....Just be a pilot

 

Haha thanks AS350. I've heard horror stories about finding jobs though..almost sounds harder than starting my own business and flying my helicopter into the ground...

That being said, I have been looking, I'm looking at all options, and this thread is just one idea I've had.

I think working for myself would be amazing, and keep in mind, agriculture work is just another option in my idea. It doesn't have to exclusively be agricultural work, it could end up being something completely different. I just want advice about the ag work because it's what I've been offered.