Pilot Training and Financial Options

[Chris Jennings]

Hey guys,

 

I am new to this forum, but I have worked in the aviation field since 2008 (between military and civilian). I currently work for a helicopter company as a Flight Planner, so I have SOME knowledge of the rotary wing world. I really want to get away from the desk and behind the controls, but as you all are very aware of, it's expensive and time consuming. I'm 33 years old and have a family, so spare time and money are very limited.

 

My company does not currently offer any type of training/crossover programs, so I was wondering if there were any companies out there that hired people into a training capacity with an agreement of future service.

 

If that is not something anyone here has heard of, then what are some viable options for someone in my position?

 

Just as a side note; I live in the Florida Panhandle and work abroad on a 6 week on/6 week off schedule.

 

Thank you guys in advance for the advice,

Chris Jennings

[eagle5]

Hire someone into a training capacity with an agreement of future service? I've only heard of one such place. I'm not sure just how hard it is to get in, but someone said their helicopters come with guns!

 

Save your pennies, or take out a loan. Get your ratings. Look for a teaching job. Not much else to it.

Edited December 2, 2014 by eagle5

[Carpenter]

Run as fast as you can from the idea of becoming a professional pilot. I know this can seem like soul crushing advice, but unless you are independently wealthy (which it sounds like you are not) it doesn't pencil out financially to borrow 100,000.00 US dollars to be able to get in line to take a swing at the opportunity of become a professional helicopter pilot. Yes people do borrow that kind of money and they are fools. Most that complete civilian training are former military and on the government dole (taxpayer funded).

Edited December 3, 2014 by Carpenter

[fleman202]

Run as fast as you can from the idea of becoming a professional pilot. I know this can seem like soul crushing advice, but unless you are independently wealthy (which it sounds like you are not) it doesn't pencil out financially to borrow 100,000.00 US dollars to be able to get in line to take a swing at the opportunity of become a professional helicopter pilot. Yes people do borrow that kind of money and they are fools. Most that complete civilian training are former military and on the government dole (taxpayer funded).

 

Are you sure this isn't just a bit extreme?

 

First, it shouldn't take 100k for flight training anywhere. Unless your training in a big turbine helicopter.

 

Second, I doubt we would have as many Dr's, nurses, veterinarians, dentist's, lawyers (that may not be a bad thing) etc... without people borrowing money to pay for education.

 

I borrowed money for my flight training, it was a lot! After I finished my training I got married and now have two kids with a third on the way, all while paying off debt. You can make it work. You might have to work another job while you do all the flying you can, you might have to rent instead of buy an apartment or house, you might have to go without things you want and only get things you need.

 

To the original poster, if this is a route that you really want to go, pray about it with your wife and figure out how to make it work. Talk to as many local pilots as possible and get their take on things and ask for advice.

 

This is just my opinion...

[Flying Pig]

If you work for a helicopter company already, you have access to people you know personally who will more than likely offer you the same advice you'll find here. I would pick their brains in person. Ultimately... your first step is that you need a boat load of money to pay all the way up to your CFII. Then you look for a job. Your school may talk to you about a CFI position but its all speculation until you have your certs signed sealed and delivered in hand. Schools positions change daily. Today they don't need anyone, tomorrow they need 3 ASAP. After those 3 are hired, they don't need anyone for the next 18 months or until one of the 3 gets a DUI next month.... etc etc etc.

[Chris Jennings]

First, I appreciate the NON condescending responses. I am aware of the military option, however I am just outside of the age range. I do have Post 911 benefits, but the closest school that has VA eligibility is two hours away. I do plan on speaking with some of my pilots when I go back on rotation, I am simply trying to gain as much knowledge from as many resources I can.

 

I contacted a school in my hometown that "says" they will train me in 6 months (assuming I do well) for $75-$80k and guarantee a job with them after. They also do photography. Does this sound legit, or more like a scam? I'm kind of going off the "it's too good to be true" approach.

[Flying Pig]

If you end up with your certs, then you have your certs. Theres no scam on that part. Just know that they can talk to you about a job all they want... if they use the word "guarantee" just remember nobody can guarantee you anything based on 6,8, 12 months from now. Remember the military? "If it sounds to good to be true, its because it is."

Aviation is an ever changing world. Just be careful, a lot of "guaranteed jobs" often involve you paying a fee to the employer. Someone comes in for a photo flight, yes you get to go fly, but you could also end up actually paying for the flight time out of your own pocket, or the "job" is somehow rolled into your time building towards a commercial.

 

Heck... this is a public site... throw the name of the school out there for vetting. I guarantee you someone here knows it.

[Chris Jennings]

That's good advice. They name of the company is called "Helicopter Academy", and they have locations all over the place (according to their website). The location I have been looking into is in Panama City, Fl. The school manager is Tommy McDermott.

[Flying Pig]

The owner of that school is on this site... goes by Boatpix.

[terminal_velo]

Unfortunately, Boatpix has found a niche in selling jobs to desperate low-time pilots.

 

You have to ask yourself this: If a company is willing to sell instructor jobs to....

• all of their own students (guaranteed!)
• instructors who weren't good enough to get hired the school they trained at, and
• instructors who got fired from the school they trained at

...what do you think the quality of instruction is going to be like?

 

What do you think that's going to look like on your resume?

 

How do you think buying a job will make you stand out over someone that was offered employment by a reputable school that has standards in hiring?

 

Do a lot of research on Boatpix before you get involved.

 

Boatpix/Helicopter Acadamy is an option, but nearly everyone I know that's gone there has done so out of desperation.

[Carpenter]

Are you sure this isn't just a bit extreme?

 

First, it shouldn't take 100k for flight training anywhere. Unless your training in a big turbine helicopter.

 

Second, I doubt we would have as many Dr's, nurses, veterinarians, dentist's, lawyers (that may not be a bad thing) etc... without people borrowing money to pay for education.

 

I borrowed money for my flight training, it was a lot! After I finished my training I got married and now have two kids with a third on the way, all while paying off debt. You can make it work. You might have to work another job while you do all the flying you can, you might have to rent instead of buy an apartment or house, you might have to go without things you want and only get things you need.

 

To the original poster, if this is a route that you really want to go, pray about it with your wife and figure out how to make it work. Talk to as many local pilots as possible and get their take on things and ask for advice.

 

This is just my opinion...

Edited December 3, 2014 by Carpenter

[Chris Jennings]

Thanks Terminal_Velo...That's exactly what I'm trying to do. The last thing I want to do is get involved with a company/program that will end up as an $80K oops. My family and I can not afford that. If it turns out that that becoming a pilot isn't the right fit for me then I still have a great job with a great company and I'm still in aviation, so it's not the end of the world.

 

From what you are telling me and some other research I have been doing, I don't think boatpix is the way I want go. I may consider a two year degree program instead. It will take longer, but I will receive quality training that is backed by a college degree plus 100% VA coverage. What are your thoughts on that route?

[Azhigher]

Use the post 9/11 benefits.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Azhigher

[Chris Jennings]

Azhigher, you have that partially correct. I do have Post 911 and would LOVE to use it for this, but so far the closest school I can find is in Tallahassee, Fl. Which is two hours away. Not completely out of the question, but it will be hard to pull off.

[Carpenter]

1)There is a recent article published By Quantum Helicopters in AZ identifying the total all in cost of flight training as $110,000 dollars. Not all places are that expensive but flight training is going to be a lot of money. This can not be argued.

2)Borrowing money for education isn't a bad thing per se. If you borrow money and complete your CFII and then you never get your first teaching job (statistically a large percentage don't), what employment opportunities out there are available with these qualifications? It is not like doctors, nurses, veterinarians, dentists or lawyers. Those industries are so wide in so many fields. Not only that it would give you a college degree that many other jobs today require you to have.

3)If this plan worked out for you then I am happy, honestly it is a success story. I consider your experience very fortunate and the exception not the norm.

4) To the original poster and all other future poster's. If you want to take a swing at go ahead. I am supportive of following dreams and passions. I urge all to please be aware of the pitfalls. Please remember that ALL schools are a for profit business and most likely will tell you what you want to hear. Good luck in your decision!

5)Happy Holidays to all.

[Chris Jennings]

Carpenter, again very good advice. Specifically Point 4. This is something I'm very passionate about, but also scares me to death (financial I mean).

[Hobie]

I may consider a two year degree program instead. It will take longer, but I will receive quality training that is backed by a college degree plus 100% VA coverage.

Liking this idea. You are in a unique spot now. You already work for a large reputable company. You've got an in that very few have.

 

I would meet everyone I could and let them know of your intentions. Goldy said it best, " I will be working for you in 5 yrs." Love this positive attitude and target goal.

 

If they like you there and you get a good vibe from them, I'd float a loan and get trained asap. I'm glad of your conclusion with HA. As mentioned, the quality of the training is a key issue. Photo is priority and not your instruction.

 

Lucky and glad you family are on board with this as it is a sacrifice for them too. Good Luck!

[Pohi]

You might be able to do a combination of training. Do your private local, because there is so much to learn and doubling up on lessons might be a bit overwhelming, then do your inst/commercial at the VA place. The drive time sucks, but saving $200 (or more) an hour out of pocket might make it easier. Plus, since it takes longer with the VA, you might be able to drive on Friday evening do a flight then get a cheap hotel, do two more flights on Saturday and go home. Or train Sunday also.

 

Regardless of which route you take, use that GI Bill. Either for flight school or for college. Just my humble opinion.

[Wally]

It's kinda like the old aviation cliche "If you have any doubts (about what you're about to do) then there is no doubt- chicken out!". If you have a choice, don't do this; if you have to do it, die trying or be miserable because you didn't, the good news is it can be done. It's a long hard and expensive slog, and you have to have a little luck along the way but I know several pilots working now who did it.

First thing to do is take some serious lessons, 5-10 hours, no more than an hour a day. You might well discover that this is not what you thought it would be. If it's not, and I know a lot of starters who quit, then you have some unique experiences and know better.

If you're still interested, look here after those lessons:

http://www.helicoptersalaries.com/

crunch some numbers to evaluate whether that income range balances expenditures, time and money. With a lot of luck, you'll be working right out of the box, but instructing won't make you rich. After two, five or ten years, with luck and work you'll be a journeyman and able to make the "big bucks" (that's what it says on my check, but the conversion rate from "big bucks" to dollars is horrendous) at one of the companies at that website. Or do ag, fire, utility or...

 

I'm not certain of the advantages of an Associate Degree program and affiliated flight school, unless you're studying something that you're interested in and would pursue besides the flying. Diversify, I wouldn't put more eggs in that basket than you could happily drop.

The flight instruction part is easy (in hindsight) a good student and a good teacher at a facility that provides real support. Part of the 'good student' and good result is regular and frequent attendance, especially at first. After your private, a little time off will set you back, but the foundation is set to build on.

A "guarantee" of employment is only as good as the terms on a signed contract. Will the company be there in 1 or 2 years? What does "employed" mean, is there a salary guarantee? Will a contract be enforceable?

 

Final thought, pilots tend to be notoriously poor spouses and hard on families. You will most likely be gone a lot and preoccupied with your vocation/avocation even when you're home. 14 hour days are the rule. Jobs that allow you to be "home every night and live a normal life" are scarce. It took me a quarter century of living out of a suitcase and divorce, to grow up enough to go to HEMS. Kind of a common story in pilot lounges...

 

I love what I do and have done since 1968. I was a miserable mo fo in the non-flying years in that period, so I have an idea.

 

Good luck.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Wally

[Azhigher]

If you decide this is absolutely what you'd like to do I think it would be utterly insane not to use your benefits and get the free training. If the drive sucks, then move. You're probably going to have to move or commute to get your first turbine job so you might as well get used to it now. Sacrifices are the norm for the beginner pilot.

 

Sorry for all the doom and gloom but you should be ready for what lies ahead of you should you decide to take the plunge.

[Chris Jennings]

Yeah, I completely understand where you're coming from with moving. If I were single then there wouldn't be any question, but I'm not. There are several things keeping us tied to this location. I already work out of the country, so my time home is very limited already. Fortunately for this situation, my wife still works when I am home, so there is time during the week that I can be gone and not miss out on time together.

 

I keep kicking myself for not doing this when I was younger and single, but then again if it was perfect world we wouldn't be having this conversation. I think that if I keep searching and researching my options (especially the ones you guys been suggesting) then it will all come together and I'll be able to my the right choice. And if it doesn't, I can always get certified in QA and come harass you guys on the flight line...HAHA!!!

[r22butters]

At my old school we were getting through cfii in 6 months, so that's definetely possibly (if you have all the funds up front).

 

We also promissed to hire EVERYONE,...and we did! Problem was there weren't enough students for EVERYONE, so some of our cfiis (although technically employed) had no students, and well a cfii with no students is just another burger-flipper at Micky-D's.

 

...I thought Boatpix was 60K?

[Spike]

Hi Chris,

Sooooo what are you doing on your 6 off? Are you able to work during this period? If so, get busy…..

I normally suggest if you do not have the time or money in place, then this endeavor you seek will doubt be fleeting. However, as already pointed out, using your VA benefits can make this possible. With that, I suggest you implement all the above….. Pronto…. Get an additional part-time job on your 6 off, enroll and attend a VA approved curriculum. The goal is to have no life and your wife needs to be on board. Full emersion can make this happen and remember, "he who hesitates is lost……"

[Chris Jennings]

No offense Spike, but I disagree with that quote. He who doesn't not hesitate and think of all the factors involved makes a risky decisions that will come back to haunt him in the future. I get what you're saying with the part time job, and that is something I do. The problem is, if I start this thing then my entire 6 weeks off will need to be dedicated to it, because I will have a 6 week period of nothing. Also, my family time is important and that is already going to be cut short since my wife works also. As far as money is concerned, I can make it work. Between the two of us, we make enough to cover it. Even though we can afford it, I want to make sure that it isn't money wasted. If something were to happen to either one of our jobs, then we would be out a lot of money with nothing to show for it. That wouldn't be the case with the VA, but the gas cost of driving 4 hours a day to get to school would be an issue.

[Hobie]

Chris, you seem like a nice sensible guy. My take is Spike is saying once you have decided this is for you, then go for it pedal to the metal.

 

Sure gas $ is an issue for long commutes. Motorcycle?, Become an Uber driver?? Or, bag the pilot route and work your way up the corporate ladder. Great company you work for now. Lots of possibilities.