Flight School Graveyard

[BOATFIXERGUY]

I'm writing an article for an avaition magazine on the state of flight training. I need some names of some of the flight schools (rotor) that you know of that have closed their doors since the recession. It doesn't matter what the reasons were, just a list of companies.

 

I know that some of the companies we all thought would be around forever are simply gone.

 

I would appreciate input from you guys and gals. Thanks.

[adam32]

Modesto Flight Center in Modesto, CA.

[goromadgo]

This one place called Silver State had a bunch of schools and went bankrupt. That was just before the recession...may have kicked it off actually!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry...couldn't help it.

[BOATFIXERGUY]

They had a flight school? I thought it was a pyramid sceme?

[Witch]

Wasn't it both? A pyramid flying school?

[helonorth]

Falcon AirLink in NC. Students lost quite a bit of money.

Edited June 12, 2009 by helonorth

[fry]

You might want to consider the meaning of these statistics from the FAA:

 

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_...men_statistics/

 

Rotocraft pilot certificates issued, table 18:

 

2008 930

2007 1,041

2006 816

2005 521

2004 366

2003 269

2002 275

2001 218

2000 234

1999 222

1998 211

1997 296

1996 349

1995 290

1994 267

1993 370

1992 291

1991 291

1990 266

 

If new certificate issuance returns to the trend of the years prior to the SSH era (beginning in 2004...the Robbyboom generation) there are going to be a lot more flight schools in that "graveyard".

[mrjibbs]

wow, those numbers are insane.....

[BOATFIXERGUY]

Thanks Fry. Good info.

 

That got me thinking about ratings in general...off topic... I also found it amazing that instrument ratings which once were not ever considered for most of us flying helicopters had a huge jump around the same time as SSH started. Instrument ratings went from 572 in 1999 to a high of 2314 at the height of SSH in 2007. A rating that was just nice to have is a must now for most commercial jobs. Last year, 2067 were issued.

[IFLY]

Thats an average of 275 from 1990 to 2003. Looks like anybody's cut of that pie is mighty small.

 

Jerry

[Goldy]

Thats an average of 275 from 1990 to 2003. Looks like anybody's cut of that pie is mighty small.

 

Jerry

 

Geez, there must be 300 schools in this country...thats only 6 in each state....so what, each one graduates a couple students a year? Sure seems like the numbers aren't right.

[edspilot]

Goldy:

 

Remember these numbers are for licenses the FAA issues.

 

The total number of schools and the people you see around is thrown off by all of the visiting students from other countries that train here and get the license back in their country.

 

There is alot of them too. Maybe one reason for thinking the number is to low.

 

edspilot

[Mikemv]

Also, only 30% get a Certificate! What are the total number of students/pilots training that are spending money at flight schools?

[BOATFIXERGUY]

Geez, there must be 300 schools in this country...thats only 6 in each state....so what, each one graduates a couple students a year? Sure seems like the numbers aren't right.

 

Don't worry fellas, the numbers Fry posted are for "Additional" ratings, i.e. add-on. I went back and looked again since I thought it sounded way to low. Table 17 shows original certs issued. And that's just Privates.

 

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_...tatistics/2008/

 

2008 - 3,639

2007 - 4,073

2006 - 3,569

2005 - 2,917

2004 - 2,736

2003 - 2,013

2002 - 2,073

2001 - 1,698

2000 - 1,776

1999 - 1,514

 

Still a huge change when SSH got geared up.

[IFLY]

It will be interesting to see what the numbers for 2009 will be. It will probably drop back into the 2,000 range again.

 

Jerry

[fry]

2008 - 3,639

2007 - 4,073

2006 - 3,569

2005 - 2,917

2004 - 2,736

2003 - 2,013

2002 - 2,073

2001 - 1,698

2000 - 1,776

1999 - 1,514

 

Still a huge change when SSH got geared up.

 

My mistake, good catch. But it is interesting that the add-on certs grew so much during the SS era since that was not their target market...SSH would not have contributed much if any to those boom years' numbers.

 

Here's the prior ten years for original PPLs issued:

 

1998 1,530

1997 1,385

1996 1,638

1995 1,724

1994 1,801

1993 2,310

1992 2,684

1991 3,344

1990 2,700

 

The high end is not unprecedented but it was followed by a significant decline. The prior peak (1991) happened at the end of the last downturn in the economy and the low when the economy was booming. The new certs issuance is sure to decline in the near future due to the lack of student financing but it remains to be seen if the trend repeats and there is another 50% drop from the high.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

I know w number of heli pilots getting their add on fixed wing. Some couldn't find a job flying helicopters others just for the hell of it.

 

JD

[Goldy]

Also, only 30% get a Certificate! What are the total number of students/pilots training that are spending money at flight schools?

 

I'll bump this back up.

 

What would be everyone's estimate of the number of students that dont make it thru to their private rating? Mike says its 30%, which seems to me to be a horrific number. We are either not setting the correct expectations or not following up with students when they struggle....but anything below 75% or so indicates a problem not just with the student..but maybe also with the school.

 

I still remember my first day of the academy. They do a great job of setting what their expectations are, and how hard you will be working to meet them...we could probably learn something from that.

 

Thoughts?

Edited June 28, 2009 by Goldy

[Mikemv]

Goldy, that 30% includes all students that make a start and then decide for whatever reason not to continue! The flight school/Instructor can try to motivate them and teach correctly but it is really out of their control. They can guarantee failure but not success!!!! Many people think they want to fly for a career until they learn how difficult and expensive the road to completion really is. Of course Sil. St. added greatly to these numbers but it happens everywhere and at many different Certificate levels. In the last 2 years I flew with a few of the Silver State students that went to CFI & CFII and they told me that they were actually teaching some of the students that started when they did. They explained this as the other students just not flying as much or working as hard or caring as much. As CFI's lets ask ourselves how many students we have had and how many completed to a Certificate level? Years ago I taught some bankers and doctors that wanted to fly their own helos but never finished. Then ask what was the reason for the non-completions? Do we ever truly know why students stop flying or never return or drop out? They will have some excuse or justification for not finishing. For you pilots that have trained in the last 4 years, how many of your student level peers dropped out and did not keep up with you? How many pilots never reach the level of completion that was their goal even though they do attain some level of Certificate? It is all so sad. Best to All, Mike

[shanesplanet]

I think Mike hit the nail on the head. We never truly understand what motivates people. We know what they say but is that what gets them through the good and bad times in this crazy career? I know what I thought motivated me and it seemed completely different things when I was back at work at the job I had before I started flying. I know of guys left and right that never finished training or did finish only to find there are no jobs. I know I looked for over a year before I found the job I am at now. I thought about quitting many times over that year but there was something I couldn't put into words that kept me going and I do not know I will ever be able to describe it.

just my 2 cents

Shane

[Goldy]

Many people think they want to fly for a career until they learn how difficult and expensive the road to completion really is.

 

 

Mike- That's my point. Are we laying out the correct expectations up front, so that we dont waste CFI's time or the students time?

[shanesplanet]

I think until people hit the first hurdle the reality never hits. I have told students up front and as direct as possible it is a long expensive row to hoe and they just tell me they understand until the first challenge then the reality hits. How many people do you know at the academy said they realized but then still quit after the first sign of difficulty. They may not have bowed out but they quit mentally and just faded out.

Shane

[Helopilt]

I think most schools would have a different success rate, but I'd say 90% make it through private.

 

Completion all the way through CFII, probably 50% if not less...

 

Many factors why the drop. Instrument rating scares some away, money issues, life in general, lack of discipline. Over the course of ones training things may change in that persons life that makes them put training on the back burner...

 

The best way to train = have all of your money already secured to get you through CFII and train full time. Working at a part time job is best over full time so you can devote time to studies. You will get through faster and it will save you money over the long run.

[Wannabe1]

W W Helicopters in East Troy has not been operating since Feb 2009. Still have the helicopters, just no students or instructors.

[mechanic]

When I started in 04', I had all my money thru CFI. Life does get in the way. 2 hurricanes, kid spent 11 days in the hospital, dad came down with cancer, work got continuously busier, etc.. etc......

 

Had to quit flying. I now have started my own biz about a month ago and the weather is not helping me get going. I want to get to a point where a few buddies and I can buy or lease a heli and work towards my cfi again. I know a few kids interested in flying and would love nothing more than to be able to help them while giving me an excuse to get into the air.

 

I don't know if I will ever be able to make it to CFII and fly a real job one day, one can have dreams, lol... Until then I'll have to keep wrenchin in my field, ha ha.