They Lied, No jobs for New Pilots

[JMcDonald]

I just landed a job in flying choppers in December. As a low hour guy. I have less than 250 hours. In fact, wanna know how many hours I have?

 

ZERO.

 

Wanna know how many times I have been in a helicopter?

 

Not once.

 

Just signed an eight year contract under job code 09W with the United States Army.

 

I leave on Monday.

 

It's a lot of work to earn this spot, but worth every bit of it.

Edited March 14, 2011 by JMcDonald

[Pohi]

Lol

[Pohi]

Well played good sir

[AdminLB]

Chris,

 

I really cannot add much here as I think most everything has been said that needs saying. I agree with all the high points that have been thrown out: Networking, poor timing, SSH collapse, banking industry collapse, recession, stagnant energy industry - specifically in O&G. All made for the perfect storm that killed the glory hiring days from 2003 - 2008.

 

The only thing I will add is that unfortunately desperate times call for desperate measures and it can also involve some measure of planning and personal sacrifice. I had a guy on justhelicopters.com ask me, "what can I do to stand out among the sea of emails, resumes, and phone calls. I think my reply was pertinent to this topic so I am re-posting it here:

 

Posted by me on October 9, 2010:

 

START

Here is what I would do if I had spent 70+k, a few years of my life, built up (put your hours here), was laid off, and/or wanted to get noticed......drastic times call for drastic measures.

 

First, I would tighten my belt and start developing a travel/network budget of say 3000 dollars. Then I would drop or scale back all $$ items that might apply:

 

Turn off and sell the iphone for something cheaper. Stop drinking starbucks, soda, and beer. Drop any costly habits like tobacco. Trade in that cool car (with the 10k stereo) or motorcycle that you use to pick up chicks so as to get rid of the payment and insurance in exchange for a 10 year old honda civic that gets 33 mpg and never breaks. Go live with mom and dad for 12 months. Sell the $500 aviator watch and the raybans for a timex and some $20 glasses from sports authority.

 

I would lose whatever niceties that I had to lose in favor of airfare, hotels, travel food, and a nice suit. I would at the very minimum attend HeliSuccess and Heli Expo every chance I got. While at HeliSuccess and HeliExpo, I would select several operators in tours and GOM (Maverick, Papillon, Bristow, PHI, ERA) and ask them if it would be possible for me to come and visit the operation some day in an effort to learn more about their company.

 

I would take that person's business card and call them one week after the event and schedule a meeting/tour for some point in the near future. I would plan one trip to Louisiana and another to Vegas and I would tour those operators as scheduled. I would do everything in my power to meet the DOO/CP during those trips if they were not the ones showing me around. I would do the same thing if there were any other operators that I was serious about.

 

Whether it took one year or five years, I would live like a bag man if I had to, to make sure the right people kept seeing my face over and over until something gave...... as well as to insure that my network of industry contacts was growing.

 

Unfortunately, this is a pay to play business due to the spread out nature of helicopters. If you have money, get off your ass and get out there. If you do not have money, suck it up, cut the fat out of your budget, work 3 jobs and save your money.....that is what I did. I paid for every hour of my training and every trip with the money I saved. Never borrowed a penny. I lived in a 50 year old ramshackle of a house and drove an 82 Datsun B210 hatchback with no AC (in florida) and worked two jobs to make it happen.

 

I got no jobs sitting in my home, making phone calls, or sending emails. Every job was because of who I knew and/or someone I met. Times were just as hard for a civi trained pilot when I came up in the early 90's. There were far fewer civilian helicopter flight schools, less helicopters in the industry, flight time requirements were much higher than what they are now, and during those years the military was actively down sizing, so there were plenty of experienced pilots hitting the market.

 

I know several guys personally, who within this last year made special trips on their own dimes to visit tour operators. Both of those visits resulted in an interview and subsequently a job. Neither operator was advertising that they were hiring.

 

You have to be aggressive and think way outside the box right now.

 

Ps. Just so that you know that I put my money where my mouth is.........I should further mention that those cheap habits I suggested previously will continue to pay off as you grow in your career. I currently wear a 5 year old timex ironman watch, wear cheap sunglasses from sports authority, and do drive an old honda civic dx with NO power windows, locks, or seats. People like to poke fun at me and call me "Burk-o-witz"......until they find out that I own a helicopter.

END

[Karl]

How many pilot openings were they trying to fill at HeliExpo and how many pilots with no job we're trying to find jobs?

[helistar]

Excellent post Mr. Burk-o-witz.

 

People need to realize the economy will not stay depressed forever and those who work hard and smart, to achieve their goals during these tough times are the ones who will be successful.

 

Employers have the opportunity and rightfully so, to be picky about who they hire and are looking for someone they are comfortable with and can trust with their equipment and reputation. Someone who has the motivation, drive and desire to get things done.

 

Far to often I see my generation simply want everything handed to them on a silver platter, refusing to do anything more than what they feel is absolutely required. They actually feel an excellent job is owed them simply because they attended school or achieved a degree with average grades. How many times have people come on here whining they sent out hundreds of resumes, yet fail to do any follow up? Why, you've heard it over and over, followup, followup and networking your butt off will increase your opportunity to land a job. Yet you sit back and do the same old thing, over and over allowing the world to pass you by, making excuses for your failures, rather then accessing your current game plan and adjusting it as needed to ensure success.

 

There are a lot of way to make your resume standout, but if you fail to network and followup chances are you'll never land your dream job.

[zVo]

Similar to receiving a college degree, getting your CFI/CFII does not entitle you to a job. Credentials are 50% of the battle, people skills account for the other half. I also think it's ill-advised to spend $60,000+ for flight training in this economy, but that's another story.

 

I was accepted into the U.S. Army's warrant officer flight training program today, and I wasn't selected because I had the best test scores. I networked like crazy to get superior letters of recommendation from influential military personnel. I don't have my degree completed, I don't have any flight training beyond a private pilot certificate, and my test scores were nothing to set me apart from the dozens of other applicants. What set my resumé apart from everyone else's was the reference letters and my BN-level board interview.

 

Aside from networking, determination & persistence go a long way, too. I learned the hard way. I was turned down twice for Army WOFT, but I refused to quit. Each time became exponentially more difficult. I went to numerous recruiting stations in two different states because the recruiters refused to work with me - they didn't want to do the paperwork for someone who previously didn't get accepted. I was lied to numerous times. I had to get PRK refractive surgery to meet vision standards. I had issues with incomplete flight physicals. My packet was stonewalled by higher-ups. I made phone calls to USAREC, Fort Rucker, and even the commanding officer at BN to work around the people that were keeping me from reaching my goal. I wasn't going to take "no" for an answer.

 

In summary: you've got to fight for what you want.

[Tenacious T]

Don't stop networking if you get hired either, I have been employed steady for 2+ years and I still attend every heli event I can and introduce myself and hand out business cards and resumes. Also, once you are employed, don't forget your struggles when an opportunity comes up to help another new pilot. If you have to choose, saving $ to attend an event with dozens of operators makes more sense than saving $ to road trip and talk to 1 guy somewhere. More bang for your buck in my opinion.

[The Guardian]

Living simple is the way to go. That way you can throw all your possessions into your Honda Civic and be at that new job in 24 hours! Just avoid the cheap sunglasses with plastic lenses though. They dilate your pupils exposing you to more UV rays... can't fly if you can't see.... protect those puppies..

[Rogue]

1995 Saturn with 240,000 miles on the clock here. Meals at chow hall. Can't get any cheaper than I already am.

[r22butters]

1995 Saturn with 240,000 miles on the clock here. Meals at chow hall. Can't get any cheaper than I already am.

 

240K,...damn! I'm surprised a car buit by GM has lasted that long. My 2001 Trans Am started falling apart at 70K.

 

By the way, anyone know why PHI just posted an ad? Did they not meet enough pilots at the expo job fair?

[Eggbeater]

240K,...damn! I'm surprised a car buit by GM has lasted that long. My 2001 Trans Am started falling apart at 70K.

 

By the way, anyone know why PHI just posted an ad? Did they not meet enough pilots at the expo job fair?

 

If you look at the minimums, you'll understand why they are still looking for people.

 

"Pilots are required to have a minimum of 1,000 hours Pilot-in-Command time in helicopters AND 200 hours instrument (actual or simulated)OR 1500 hours Pilot in Command Time in Helicopters and 300 Multi Engine. 100 hours of night. 100 hour of night minimum."

 

Which only serves to reinforce the statement that there isn't a shortage of helicopter pilots, there is a shortage of EXPERIENCED helicopter pilots. The only way to tell that a company is having problems hiring is if they lower their minimums; and it would seem PHI doesn't have any problems with hiring YET. We'll see whether this summer of $4/gallon of gas impacts their hiring any.

[r22butters]

There was a pretty good sized line at their booth. Why would anyone get in it, if they didn't meet the minimums?

 

As for a "shortage" of "experienced" pilots. If there's no way for us "low-timers" to get "experienced", then its only going to get worse.

[helonorth]

PHI is hiring pilots with no GoM experience and no turbine time. This is no different than what their minimums have been for many years, except for the 200 of instrument. I would think most double I's would have that at around 1000 hours? I have 75 and was never even a double I.

[Eggbeater]

PHI is hiring pilots with no GoM experience and no turbine time. This is no different than what their minimums have been for many years, except for the 200 of instrument. I would think most double I's would have that at around 1000 hours? I have 75 and was never even a double I.

 

From what I have seen of our hiring at PHI, the new hires typically have either GOM experience or turbine time. Some people might not have either, but make up for it with high PIC time. And when they refer to 200 hours of instruments, it is either simulated or actual. Unless they are instructing in a helicopter that can go into actual IMC(very rare), then a CFII will never log either type. The student has the foggles on and the instructor keeps an eye out for traffic.

 

@ r22butters - the onus is not on employers to find solutions for low timers to get flight time. If they need pilots, they will lower minimums, it's as simple as that. At the end of the day, these are still for profit companies.

[Pohi]

200 inst is a pretty tall order

Being a CFII doesn't get the instructor simulated hours any quicker than anything else. An airplane CFII could, assuming they are teaching in IMC I guess. But I usually let the students fly under the hood when they are paying for the flights.

[Pohi]

The only way I got as much as I have is that I got my airplane rating and flew those things around under the hood anytime I could. And as much as I could, any ferry flight situations I would go with another instructors and do the paper rock scissors on who was going to do hood time.

[r22butters]

@ r22butters - the onus is not on employers to find solutions for low timers to get flight time. If they need pilots, they will lower minimums, it's as simple as that. At the end of the day, these are still for profit companies.

 

I would never expect employers to give a 'rats furry ass' about the plight of the unemployed low-timer. As long as they have a steady flow of resumes, why should they?

 

I'm just tired reading the occasional article, where they are, apparently, telling people, "there's a shortage of experienced pilots".

 

If you have no desire to start an internship program, or buy a flight school, and hire from within (to get the kind of pilots you want), then stop telling me, "we only hire experienced pilots", only to turn around and say, "there's a shortage of experienced pilots".

[Wally]

I would never expect employers to give a 'rats furry ass' about the plight of the unemployed low-timer. As long as they have a steady flow of resumes, why should they?

 

I'm just tired reading the occasional article, where they are, apparently, telling people, "there's a shortage of experienced pilots".

 

If you have no desire to start an internship program, or buy a flight school, and hire from within (to get the kind of pilots you want), then stop telling me, "we only hire experienced pilots", only to turn around and say, "there's a shortage of experienced pilots".

 

 

Not to put salt in any wounds, but I worked with a lot of fine pilots from overseas while in the GoM. If operators can't get "Yanks" they will fill the seats from somewhere.

[CharyouTree]

I would never expect employers to give a 'rats furry ass' about the plight of the unemployed low-timer. As long as they have a steady flow of resumes, why should they?

 

I'm just tired reading the occasional article, where they are, apparently, telling people, "there's a shortage of experienced pilots".

 

If you have no desire to start an internship program, or buy a flight school, and hire from within (to get the kind of pilots you want), then stop telling me, "we only hire experienced pilots", only to turn around and say, "there's a shortage of experienced pilots".

 

Why do you find those two statements contradictory? Should they have to start an internship program, or buy a flight school (and hire from within) to get experienced pilots? Do you expect any other industry to do the same if they only want experienced personnel? The onus of responsibility (with few exceptions) is ALWAYS on the hire, no matter what the career field. Should more academic (for lack of a better term) fields start their own college, if they want experience?

[ADRidge]

Why do you find those two statements contradictory? Should they have to start an internship program, or buy a flight school (and hire from within) to get experienced pilots? Do you expect any other industry to do the same if they only want experienced personnel? The onus of responsibility (with few exceptions) is ALWAYS on the hire, no matter what the career field. Should more academic (for lack of a better term) fields start their own college, if they want experience?

 

This.

 

I don't know about you folks, but I've never been promised a job by a flight school. I've never even had anyone hint at a job, really. I've always been under the impression that how I do as a helicopter pilot is all on me. If I sit around and get mad that it's so damn hard to find a job, I'll probably never find one. But if I constantly look at ways to improve myself and expand my qualifications, I think it improves the chances of getting a job.

 

It's been said a thousand times in this thread and others, but I'll say it again: It's all about who you know. The more pilots you schmooze with, the more likely it is that one of them may know of a position for you. This forum CAN be a good place to get started with networking. I've met several stand-up fellows from this forum, and I've met a few more outside of this place. Heli Expo is another good one. I watched a friend of mine strike up a conversation with some random guy that in 15 minutes turned into a "call me when you have 1500 hours, we've got a space open for you." Amazing.

 

Look, the opportunities, while few and far in between, are out there. Alot of your success will depend on how bad you want it.

[Spirit of '69]

I'm 12 hours into training. Its getting to these events that gets the ball rolling. I'm in Minnesota but am thinking about which events to attend nationally and are worth my time and $. Would rotorfest be a good start? Its only a 14 HR Drive.

[r22butters]

Why do you find those two statements contradictory? Should they have to start an internship program, or buy a flight school (and hire from within) to get experienced pilots? Do you expect any other industry to do the same if they only want experienced personnel? The onus of responsibility (with few exceptions) is ALWAYS on the hire, no matter what the career field. Should more academic (for lack of a better term) fields start their own college, if they want experience?

 

I'm not saying that they should,...I'm saying, if they're not going to do anything to help the situation, then they should stop "bitching" that they can't find the kind of pilots they want!

 

Unless the whole thing about there being a "shortage of experienced pilots", is just a lie! In which, this discussion is moot.

 

By the way, doctors have interns, plummers, and electritians have journyman, and apprentiships, Hell, even Maury Povich has internships,...why can't we?

Edited March 17, 2011 by r22butters

[clay]

Because in our line of work, weight = $$$, and they aren't going to put someone in the front seat to observe and learn when that seat could be filled with paying customers.

[Wally]

I'm not saying that they should,...I'm saying, if they're not going to do anything to help the situation, then they should stop "bitching" that they can't find the kind of pilots they want!

 

Unless the whole thing about there being a "shortage of experienced pilots", is just a lie! In which, this discussion is moot.

 

By the way, doctors have interns, plummers, and electritians have journyman, and apprentiships, Hell, even Maury Povich has internships,...why can't we?

 

To be accurate, you need to include the entire quote from employers. Complete, it's "they can't find the kind of pilots they want! (At the price they're willing to pay)". When the money is there, the seats fill themselves, with fully qualified individuals.