r22butters Posted October 9, 2011 Report Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) ...talking about the "Constant Attitude Auto"!!! When do you get to learn those and who teaches how do that as well as other advanced maneuvers? Unfortunately here in the States if you're a non-CFI (like myself) you won't get to learn any "advanced" stuff until you go to the RHC Safety Course (mandatory if you want to fly a Robinson for hire, or rent). Even then you only get to do "one" touchdown (following them on the controls), and only if you fly a "company" ship. Other than there, you have to find a place that specializes in advanced maneuvers. About a year ago, I went up to Jerry Trimble Helicopters for their "touchdown auto" course,...very informative, and a lot of fun! From what I've heard of the JAA program, those guys must think we're a bunch of pussies here in the FAA? P.S. What ever happened to Alberto (the OP)? Edited October 10, 2011 by r22butters Quote
alberto.davila Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Posted October 10, 2011 Unfortunately here in the States if you're a non-CFI (like myself) you won't get to learn any "advanced" stuff until you go to the RHC Safety Course (mandatory if you want to fly a Robinson for hire, or rent). Even then you only get to do "one" touchdown (following them on the controls), and only if you fly a "company" ship. Other than there, you have to find a place that specializes in advanced maneuvers. About a year ago, I went up to Jerry Trimble Helicopters for their "touchdown auto" course,...very informative, and a lot of fun! From what I've heard of the JAA program, those guys must think we're a bunch of pussies here in the FAA? I am hear watching everyone fight. 1 Quote
DUSTIN_BOATPIX Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 @ R22butters, thanks for the info. I will check JTH out later next year maybe, I watched a Youtube video of the R22 doing aerobatics pretty sweet...tried to look this guy up and can't find him, here you guys go; check it out: Quote
Trans Lift Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) When do you get to learn those and who teaches how do that as well as other advanced maneuvers? Any good instructor should be teaching all of these maneuvers at a commercial level. It is such a shame that there are commercial rated pilots out there that have never heard of these things let alone done them. I understand that it may not be in the FAA syllabus (and yes, I am JAA trained) but it should be. Why should anyone have to go to a Robinson course to see some of this stuff? Full down autorotations and all the other things I mentioned should be examined for a commercial cert. To think there are commercial pilots out there that have not even done a full down auto is beyond belief as far as I am concerned. All of my students in the past were taught these maneuvers, both JAA and FAA, at commercial level. SBT sounds great and all but maybe there should be some more MBT in FAA training too. Butters, one of the main situations for using a "constant attitude" auto would be an IFR or night time engine failure. It gives the minimum rate of decent which wold allow you to break out of the clouds/use your landing light in a dark area to see what is beneath you and hopefully have a better chance to get a suitable landing spot. It is usually done at 40kt attitude(in the 300 anyway) and all you need is applied collective for the flare, no cyclic flare. If anyone ever wants to be shown these maneuvers, just let me know Edited October 10, 2011 by Trans Lift 1 Quote
DUSTIN_BOATPIX Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 I have done full down auto's, however, never done the constant auto, would love to fly and learn anything new and beneficial from any and all skilled pilots...If your ever in Florida, lets fly and/or if I am ever close to were you may be...? Fly Safe, Dustin_904 554 2727 Quote
IFLY Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 If anyone ever wants to be shown these maneuvers, just let me know Next time your in Tucson we need to go fly. Jerry Quote
DUSTIN_BOATPIX Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Thanks IFLY, IM with your info.... Fly Safe, Dustin Quote
r22butters Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Butters, one of the main situations for using a "constant attitude" auto would be an IFR or night time engine failure. It gives the minimum rate of decent which wold allow you to break out of the clouds/use your landing light in a dark area to see what is beneath you and hopefully have a better chance to get a suitable landing spot. It is usually done at 40kt attitude(in the 300 anyway) and all you need is applied collective for the flare, no cyclic flare. Would you believe that I've got about 280hrs at night, and have never heard of using that technique? Even during my IFR training it was never mentioned (and my CFII had over 4000hrs)! I've only even done minimum-rate autos in the R44 (at RHC), and not down to a flare, but recovery much higher. Hell, the numbers aren't even in the R22 POH (I just assume 53kts/90%). Touchdown autos at the Commercial,...they should be taught during the Private (which, by the way, I got before they added 180 autos and off-airport landings)! Oh' well,...back to the drawing board. I guess you don't know what you've missed, until you find out what others have been doing? Edited October 11, 2011 by r22butters 1 Quote
Mikemv Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Butters, do not feel bad for not knowing what you do not know, or not knowing what you were not trained for/in. For night (no reference available) or IFR, use a survival glide, either in an airplane or helo, which is the attitude/airspeed/configuration that gives you lowest rate of descent and slowest forward speed for touchdown/contact. Many pilots want to learn Advanced Maneuvers! Some should fly more precisely on the basics but the cost of training to attain Certificates prohibits everything being in every syllabus. If everything was in the PTS and we were all forced to train for testing, the costs would be prohibitive if it is not already. The PTS should not be used as a training standard but is used this way by many schools to be cost competitive with other schools. No schools advertises in teaching all possible maneuvers at a maximum training costs to applicants! The PTSs are under revision to increase testing of ADM & SRM. Training needs to be modernized and some maneuvers could be added for additional required operational skills. Pilots are trained to fly but not to operate helicopters. I try to fix the Aeronautical Knowledge Base for Helo pilots with my C&E Seminars and promote training safer pilots with modern training methods to produce pilots with Higher Order Thinking Skills. (HOTS) The system needs improvement in a few areas but will cost slightly more. The FAA sets minimum standards in the PTSs. Mike 1 Quote
DUSTIN_BOATPIX Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 @MIKE, are you still currently in Florida, if Yes, how far away are you from Pompano, would like to just sit down and talk with you one-on-one or even maybe some of the other pilots too; would like to come too. But personally I would like to maybe meet up sometime and have dinner on me, and just chat about flying. I want be back in Florida for about another (2) weeks, but if possible would very much like to meet up with you. Again thanks for your time and feedback. Fly Safe, Dustin_904 554 2727 Quote
Gunner Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 @ R22butters, thanks for the info. I will check JTH out later next year maybe, I watched a Youtube video of the R22 doing aerobatics pretty sweet...tried to look this guy up and can't find him, here you guys go; check it out: Jim died a few years ago of natural causes. Quote
DUSTIN_BOATPIX Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 @GUNNER, that's very sad, may he RIP! Did you know him and the rest of the pilots? Thanks for the info, I was really looking forward to meeting him one day. -Dustin 1 Quote
Trans Lift Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Next time your in Tucson we need to go fly. Jerry Sounds like a plan Jerry. I will let you know if/when I get out that way. Would love to go out and see Arizona! I have only briefly passed through on my way to Cali. 1 Quote
Thengine Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 I am guessing that is not possible in the R-22 due to low rotor disk inertia, can any high time R-22 CFI correct me if I am wrong? Quote
C of G Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 I am guessing that is not possible in the R-22 due to low rotor disk inertia, can any high time R-22 CFI correct me if I am wrong? It's possible. I can tell you from personal experience. I haven't flown a helicopter yet that can't do it. Having said that, it's not an endorsement to go out and do it on your own. Quote
Kandace Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 Unfortunately here in the States if you're a non-CFI (like myself) you won't get to learn any "advanced" stuff until you go to the RHC Safety Course (mandatory if you want to fly a Robinson for hire, or rent). Even then you only get to do "one" touchdown (following them on the controls), and only if you fly a "company" ship. The school were I work and fly does touchdown autos all of time. I probably did 20 before I got my private. Kandace Quote
r22butters Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 The school were I work and fly does touchdown autos all of time. I probably did 20 before I got my private. Kandace You're lucky! I remember hearing once that there were two schools of thought on practice autos; One believed in touch-downs, the other believed power-recovery was just as good. Do you always do touchdowns? Quote
Kandace Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 The vast majority of the time, yes. And that includes pre solo students. The owners philosophy is you do what you are trained to do, and in a real engine failure you are going to the ground! Quote
Rogue Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 Did full down before I soloed also. Quote
helonorth Posted December 10, 2023 Report Posted December 10, 2023 Gender reveal parties should be outlawed anyway. Quote
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